Space Marine Assassins

[Berzul]

Ok so, bear with me...

 

Could it be possible, in the way that a Space Marine can train in Mars to become a Techmarine, for a battle brothee to go train with the officio assassinorum, to become an assassin?

 

My local gaming group was talking and the suggestion came up to play assassins in my lists. But, I dont own any and I dont really like their look at all.

 

... What I DO have is 5 veteran bodies and a TON of weapons. So i figured, could I make 4 veterans and equip thek like you would an assassin?

 

Using robed bodies and devastator helmets foe their enhances optics.

 

Make one with a sniper rifle from a Scout Squad.

 

Make one with a lightning claw that is very much edged fingers, and a bolt pistol.

 

Make one with a grenade, and a pointing hand.

 

Make one with a power sword and a grav pistol.

 

I was thinking I could paint them black, with silver edges (as silver is the color I use for the models outside the 10 companies in my chapter), and as decorated pauldrons as I can find.

 

Make it in the lore of the chapter that these are veterans specially selected due to their skill, to form a special "wing" of the army. "The Wings of Dusk", to my Wings of Dawn. Trained in arts of the assassins, and whom all serve the Chapter Master as deadly agents of his will.

 

... How absolutely impossible would this be?

Edited July 21, 2020 by Berzul

[Dumah]

Impossible? No. Out of character for the typical chapter? Certainly. But then the Unforgiven aren't typical space marines and it's not a terribly far leap from interrogators to assassins. I say go for it.

[shabbadoo]

That is not how the Offiicio Assassinorum works. The Imperium...collects...suitable (usually from privileged backgrounds) candidates at a very young age and enroll them in the Schola Progenium. As they advance, they are divided by skill set and eventually sent to one of various organizations, usually the Commisariat, Adeptus Arbites, Adepta Sororitas, or Officio Assassinorum (I think I am recalling that correctly, or mostly so). They are usually sent off to the final organization at a very young age (10-14 years of age I think). In effect, the recruits for these organizations are trained up very much like recruits to the Space Marine Chapters are. They are not grabbed as adults from some Imperial organization and then trained as whatever - they are chosen out for that while still children.

 

Space Marine recruits are likewise singled out during the training process for specialized skill training should they demonstrate a knack for it, whether it be as an Apothecary, Techmarine, or Chaplain. The recruit does not only receive specialized training in those disciplines after they have become Space Marines, but that training begins during the process of becoming a Space Marine.

 

Considering these processes, a Space Marine being sent off to the Officio Assassinorum for extra special training doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It would be a freakish occurrence at best, and I would think that such a candidate would be required to leave their Chapter to be permanently attached to a branch of the Inquisition, as I don't believe anyone would want to put such an...asset...back into the hands of any Chapter.

 

The Dark Angels would certainly not send anyone with any sort of secret Chapter knowledge for such training, and they probably wouldn't trust anybody they got back either, because I am sure the hypno-indoctrination of the Inquisition is pretty top notch. If the Dark Angels worry about Mars-trained Techmarines, exactly how do you think they will feel about Inquisition-trained assassins? The Dark Angels still send Techmarines to Mars, but they are very much known to stay as far away from the Inquisition, and anything peripherally involved with them, as is possible.

Edited July 21, 2020 by shabbadoo

[MegaVolt87]

Closest thing there was were the Moritats and Vigilators from the good old days (GC/HH) that would be even close to a dedicated individual assassin for SM. You could argue all the new primaris tactibro's could be assassins as a role as well. 

[Vexillia Primus]

There are the Deathwatch kill marines that I'd say are the closest thing to a marine assassin. However I don't think there are rules for them for tabletop, I just know they are from the Fantasy Flight RPG.

[Lysimachus]

For my money, the most logical way would be to create fluff for 4 indivuidual 1st Co veterans for your Chapter who have learned to hunt the Fallen in specific ways and just use the assassin rules; a Sternguard/Eradicator sniper, a Vanguard/Reiver cc specialist, a scout/Incursor who is a master infiltrator, a Librarian who hunts sorcerers.

[Dumah]

For clarity's sake, I didn't mean to suggest space marines would train with the Officio Assassinorum but rather that they could certainly hone those skills on their own, within the chapter. Just look at the Mentor Legion - special operative space marines - and the Raven Guard arguably operative as assassins themselves.

[Berzul]

Well, the point here is to have Assassins (per their dataslates), but just, with different models. That are equipped the same (or as close to it as possible), but are from the Chapter.

 

So, I am now looking for the lore excuse, really... Perhaps they could be trained IN the chapter for assassination? As a branch of the Reclusiam, even? Hence the black armor?

 

So, they are as competent and equipped for the job as an assassin from the Officio Assassinorum, but are fully part of the Chapter, under the command of the Grand Master.

 

WoUld THAT hold to the lore of the game?

[bigtrouble]

Game wise, I don’t see why you couldn’t modify and equip some dudes how you want as long as your opponent accepts it. Only issue I see with modeling these is that assassins don’t wear power armor, so it’s a bit of a stretch.

 

Lore wise, I think it’s hard to justify having the wargear and abilities without having gone through the specialized and individualized training separate from the chapter, and Marines of any stripe (even techmarines) tend to think of themselves as part of a unit rather than as solo operators.

 

That being said, if you want it, and it can fit your idea for your chapter, you only need to justify it to yourself! There are exceptions to every rule, and there are 1000 individual chapters, so get as creative as you want!

[UtariOnzo]

To address the issue regarding mars. That relates to ancient treaties and pacts to the Astartes, since Chapters need to be self sufficient and cannot simply rely on replacement orders for like the Departmento Munitorium does. There has also been lore where other institutions, like the Militarium and the Navy, can have enlisted servicemen trained by techpriests for more complex roles involving machinery, but not to the extent of becoming techpriests themselves (they’ll tell you how to do the rite of initiation, but not why you do it kinda deal)

 

So taking that, we see techmarine training is an absolute necessity for Chapters to be able to operate in the manner they do, keeping production and repair in house. Assassination training is not an absolute necessity given the methods of war the Astartes generally follow, however, they’re Your Dudes so if you can headcanon a way an individual might have gotten said training then feel free. It’s just not a convincing argument for this practice to be more widespread for me

Edited July 22, 2020 by UtariOnzo

[Brother Tyler]

THE HERO'S SHADOW

 

The Adeptus Astartes and the agents of the Officio Assassinorum have never seen eye to eye, despite the fact their ultimate goal is essentially the same. Because of the long-standing warrior traditions and codes of honour by which the Space Marines operate, the vast majority of Chapters see the Assassin's trade as distasteful at best. Some have even gone so far as to brand the Officio Assassinorum a despicable blight on the Imperium's honour, little realising that in doing so, they are courting the crosshairs themselves.

 

...

 

...It is a rare day indeed when the Imperial Assassins and the Adeptus Astartes will work together in harmony, for each institution is convinced that the other is a wayward perversion of the Emperor's Will.

Clearly there's room for some Chapters or individual Adeptus Astartes to be a bit less antagonistic in their view towards the Assassins, but those would appear to be a small minority.

 

Most of what has been described in the original premise is already covered by standard forces of the Adeptus Astartes - scouts in a sniper role, Infiltrators, Incursors, etc. One would really have to explore why any Chapter that uses the doctrines common to the Adeptus Astartes would need their own "assassin" type units. There might be some Chapters such as the Raven Guard that employ non-standard tactics, but even those Chapters have the same types of units that they wouldn't need "assassins." There might be exceptional circumstances that force Chapters to innovate and use their stealthy battle-brothers in ways that approximate how assassins operate, but these wouldn't likely engender an institutional adoption of assassin training. The universe being a big place, and with ten thousand years of history behind them, it's likely that a few Chapters have done this on occasion over the years, but likely only in an ad hoc and temporary fashion, quickly dropping the practice once the need has passed. Some of the more deviant Chapters might even have codified protocols to be enacted if the situation calls for the Adeptus Astartes to employ its own "assassins," but only as needed.

 

The thing that really sets the Unforgiven Chapters apart from their fellow Adeptus Astartes is their hunt for the Fallen. In this, their goal is to capture the Fallen or those that might know of their whereabouts, not to kill them. In this, the concept of assassins seems counterproductive. If the Unforgiven have anyone trained in non-standard (for Adeptus Astartes) warfare, it would more likely be in a scouting/intelligence gathering role. The Ravenwing have already been described as performing that role (beyond what "greenwing" battle-brothers such as sniper scouts, Infiltrators, and Incursors might perform).

 

I could see a place for exceptional individuals throughout history possibly performing this type of role for one or other of the Unforgiven Chapters (see my DIY work on the Venerators/Angels of Veneration and Grand Master Mikha'il/Inquisitor Lord Teriq Ausar for an example). Such an individual might serve the Unforgiven in the shadows, seeking out information on the Fallen/informants and relaying that information on to the Unforgiven for action; and they might potentially be tasked with eliminating those that might know of the Fallen (without the Unforgiven being implicated). I think these would extremely rare, however, and wouldn't likely be found fighting within the ranks of the Unforgiven (i.e., in an Unforgiven army) except under the most exceptional of circumstances where their affiliations won't be betrayed. Such circumstances would usually (but not always) be in a large scale action where their presence with/among the Unforgiven might reasonably explained as a coincidence or the natural byproduct of multiple forces of the Imperium fighting alongside each other.

 

Such individual agents would be very few in number - probably no more than 5, but usually 0 or 1, per Unforgiven Chapter.

 

The concept I can see would be analogous to the operatives of the Alpha Legion, but far fewer in number.

 

I could see this as a great conversion opportunity. If the Unforgiven ever do utilize such agents, and if those agents have to blend in with normal people, they are more likely to be legacy Adeptus Astartes (rather than Primaris) - but even those stand head and shoulders above normal humans. Such agents might not wear power armour, not even Phobos pattern armour, instead wearing lesser forms of armour.

[Berzul]

Wow, that makes it really clear that assassins shouldn't even be incorporated into Astartes lists.

 

Now, my chapter is NOT really a part of the Legion-Forming successors that per the official cannon are subject to the hunt for the fallen. They have their own inner struggles, and their own "hunt", as a consequence of their backstory, but they although they are First Legion descendants, and they WILL go to the aid of the Unforgiven, they are most likely "monitored" by the Dark Angels, and certainly not informed of their true nature and mission. Certainly not made a part of their pursuit of the Fallen.

 

In fact, should they come in contact with the fallen, they might get killed because of it, rather than inducted into the hunt itself.

 

Now, given that, I feel like there COULD be a role to fit for a specialist agent in the chapter. Specially as they have their own "hunt", and it is NOT one to capture, but one to kill.But, not as assassins.

 

I do think that my local gaming group, for casual play, would have no issue with he using a model that employs all the assassins dataslates, rules and detachment formation conditions. But, they would not be "assassins", but more like "operatives" of the Chapter Master. Given the info provided Brother Tyler, I do not feel like I could or would use actual assassins in my army, as it would not really fit the lore of an astartes force; despite how useful the assassin could be.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Berzul

[shabbadoo]

That quote is kind of crap though, as the very last bit about perversion of the Emperor's will makes absolutely no sense. The Emperor created and made use of both during/towards the end of the Unification Wars. Could be representative of a more latter day feeling between the two though, but still kind of meh.

 

[+++END DEVIL'S ADVOCATE MODE+++]

 

Looking for an excuse to build some cool models though...

 

The Dark Angels are unlike other Chapters  - especially going back to the Heresy era and before. The Space Wolves may have been the Emperor's hounds and deliverers of justice, but the Dark Angels were his killers. Where the Space Wolves were meant to leave evidence that justice had been meted out (i.e. Prospero), the Dark Angels left nothing (i.e. +++NO RECORD FOUND+++).   Don't forget that newer fluff has the Dark Angels as being possessors of what amounts to forbidden weaponry. Only the Dark Angels Legion ever had it, and as it was seen to be too horrific to promote its common use it was very purposely never given to the other Legions. The Dark Angels use of such technology is a topic that simply wouldn't be discussed, let alone even acknowledged. Such forbidden technology, which nominally included weapons of mass destruction, could have also included smaller scale weapons/equipment that is functionally similar to that used by the Officio Assassinorum, or variations of it close enough to functionally be the same in game terms...

 

Taking that all into account, could the Dark Angels employ measures/training/equipment that other Chapters would never think to use or even posses? Possibly so. Would such lore be good enough to include not-Assassin models in a Dark Angels army? Probably so.

Edited July 23, 2020 by shabbadoo

[Berzul]

That quote is kind of crap though, as the very last bit about perversion of the Emperor's will makes absolutely no sense. The Emperor created and made use of both during/towards the end of the Unification Wars. Could be representative of a more latter day feeling between the two though, but still kind of meh.

 

[+++END DEVIL'S ADVOCATE MODE+++]

 

Looking for an excuse to build some cool models though...

 

The Dark Angels are unlike other Chapters  - especially going back to the Heresy era and before. The Space Wolves may have been the Emperor's hounds and deliverers of justice, but the Dark Angels were his killers. Where the Space Wolves were meant to leave evidence that justice had been meted out (i.e. Prospero), the Dark Angels left nothing (i.e. +++NO RECORD FOUND+++).   Don't forget that newer fluff has the Dark Angels as being possessors of what amounts to forbidden weaponry. Only the Dark Angels Legion ever had it, and as it was seen to be too horrific to promote its common use it was very purposely never given to the other Legions. The Dark Angels use of such technology is a topic that simply wouldn't be discussed, let alone even acknowledged. Such forbidden technology, which nominally included weapons of mass destruction, could have also included smaller scale weapons/equipment that is functionally similar to that used by the Officio Assassinorum, or variations of it close enough to functionally be the same in game terms...

 

Taking that all into account, could the Dark Angels employ measures/training/equipment that other Chapters would never think to use or even posses? Possibly so. Would such lore be good enough to include not-Assassin models in a Dark Angels army? Probably so.

 

Well, in the end, I do feel like the army COULD have a sort of "division" of special operatives, that in game terms replace Assassins, for some missions that require equivalent skill sets.

 

Following this, which is a sentiment that I feel goes along this same line, I think I will make my "Veterans-as-Assassins" for casual play.

 

Thanks everyone for your insight and your comments. It has been VERY helpful.

[shabbadoo]

And don't call them Assassins. They are Hunters. Totally different!  One example:

 

Null Hunter (not-Culexus Hunter of Fallen Sorcerers)

 

Equipment:

 

Stalker Armor (e.g. 6+ armor save & Lightning Reflexes 4++ save rolled into one bit of equipment)

Psyk-leech pistol (e.g. Animuls Speculum)

Psyk-out grenades (same)

Null Field Generator (e.g. Abomination/Etherium special abilities)

Null Blade (Rng: melee, Type: melee, Str: user, AP: -5, Dmg: 1 (e.g. Life Drain ability)

 

Special Rules/Abilities:

 

Hunter Squad (e.g. Execution Force)

Independent Operative (same)

Warp Hunter (e.g. Psychic Assassin special ability)

 

You could go with less special gear if you made this Dark Angel a Pariah (I somewhat prefer he not be a Pariah and just have archaic tech). The other Assassins have such "common" equipment/special rules  that you barely need to change anything.

Edited July 23, 2020 by shabbadoo

[Berzul]

Absolutely will do