Is Mind Worm actually good in 9th?

[Zeruel]

In 8th the uses of Mind War were so narrow that I had never even considered taking it, relegating it to pretty much useless. I haven't really played 40K since last fall but with 9th near on the horizon I've been scouring over my codex again re-familiarizing myself with the sons of the Lion. It hit me looking over the psychic powers again that with one subtle change in 9th that Mind Worm might actually be fantastic. Now that your opponent get's the first chance to strike in ongoing combats on your turn, could Mind Worm be an invaluable defensive tool. If your opponent slams a combat unit into you on their turn they'll get to fight a second time now before you do... unless we Mind Worm them and get a crucial reprisal before they get to swing again. Even pairing that up with maybe a counter-charge of our own and you could stack two units' attacks on them before they get to respond, plus you know a mortal wound on them for our troubles too.

[G8Keeper]

I'd say yes, with the mentioned changes anything that forces your opponent to fight second will have more worth.

[Berzul]

Agree 100%

 

Mind Worm looks to be positioned to be a GREAT power in 9th.

[UtariOnzo]

I feel like I’ll be getting more use out of my Terminator Librarian than just buffing my smash chap/knights!

[Berzul]

Theorycrafting lists, I came up with using a Terminator Librarian with Mind Worm and Righteous Repugnance, with the Huntsman Warlord Trait and the Foe Smiter. My idea would be to use him as a versatile support HQ for a Deathwing group of either knights or terminators.

 

• He could provide protection from psykers (which are BRUTAL against terminators)
• He could make the enemy fight last with Mind Worm (which is a lot better now that the enemy fights back earlier than before)
• He could make the terminators fight better with righteous repugnance (which is better than any other re-roll aura in the game for them)
• He could fire off 4 shots with Bolter Discipline, at S4 AP-2 D2 (during Tactical Doctrines) at support HQs of the enemy (comissars, fire blades, psykers, tech priests, and all those nasty things that hide behind that don't have THAT big an armor save, but can still provide good synergy to your enemy if left behind enemy lines)
• He could even use Deathwing Assault to double that, making it 8 shots instead of 4.
• He could even use Steady Advance to make those shots fire with re-roll 1s.

 

And best of all, his powers have a reach of 12", which is double a re-roll aura. That means that you can use combined assault with the DW, and just drop this guy at 9"+, or even more, and keep him safer, while also freeing you from the worry of needing for the HQ to make a 9" charge while the DW make their 6" charge. Saves you a potential Command Re-roll as well, since you don't NEED to charge in with the Librarian, at all, for his support to be worth it.

[aura_enchanted]

Then you face eldar/chaos daemons/ grey knights/ thousand sons/ death guard (whom I expect to be meta S tier this edition) and you basically never get a cast off, or your up against custodes and wind up with an enemy who just doesn't care about your magic because they have stats so amazing that they can afford to roll around a corner and lay waste to anything without a storm shield

 

And even if your not in such a matchup there's plenty of other armies with casters and if they arrive your guy gets cancelled out and then where are you? With a model fighting at half effectiveness.

 

I just don't see the value in librarians and haven't seen it since the end of 6th edition

Edited July 21, 2020 by aura_enchanted

[Berzul]

Well, yeah.

 

Using theoretical cases, you can counter absolutely everything with absolutely anything, in each possible scenario.

 

Ive faced Tyranids that managed to outpsyker me even when using 4 librarians at a time.

 

Doesn't mean librarians are useless.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Berzul

[aura_enchanted]

Well, yeah.

 

Using theoretical cases, you can counter absolutely everything with absolutely anything, in each possible scenario.

 

Ive faced Tyranids that managed to outpsyker me even when using 4 librarians at a time.

 

Doesn't mean librarians are useless.

 

not even that theoretical in the right environments. eldar, custodes and chaos daemons are regular enemies at 40k tournaments and have been for some time now, death guard i think are in great shape to do a lot of damage this edition, mortarion is a fast as all hades death dealing machine, blight grenades do a ridiculous amount of damage with the new grenade rules, their psy powers are really strong and deathshroud are itching to get into a scrap with your elite infantry this edition and their plague burst crawlers with blast now. im actually half excited to see how much damage the death guard are going to do this edition. if only to see more of morty and his army of ricks roll over people.

 

will mind worm be useful yes bet your bottom dollar, a really strong psy power but its in an army that wont get a chance to make much use of it. much like how ezekiel is a good librarian in an army that doesnt seem to want his talents much. 

[Berzul]

I guess I did not consider the tournament side.

 

I do not play tournaments, and even at the times I've felt like it, the tournament circuit (or what at least tries to resemble one) here in my country is... well, I don't want to get a warning for cursing.

[G8Keeper]

I mean yeah, there are hard counters for most tactics in 40k right and your meta/form of play will differ from ours, but against certain opponents it will work. My opponents have the headache of me having 14k of painted DA to choose from and often varying my lists up, so it's tough for them to anticipate such moves as mind worm. That being said, I would go with a librarian vs grey knights and the like purely for psychic defence. Edited July 22, 2020 by G8Keeper