New UM Player, buy Indomitus?

[Godfrey]

Hello,

 

I played Black Templars over ten years ago, and no longer have the army. I'm interested in getting back into the hobby, and I'm looking at Ultramarines this time.

 

Is the Indomitus box a good starting point? The models within don't seem to really compliment the UM rules set. I'm wondering if I shouldn't just buy individual stuff over time, or grab a used army off ebay and go from there.

 

I know i want to field some dreadnoughts, and I'm also a fan of the apothecary model and fluff.

 

With Ultramarines having overwatch still, I'm considering trying to showcase a list that utilizes overwatch as best a possible. Maybe an invictor suit or two to eat fire, with some flamers nearby.

 

Thanks for your insight.

[HighMarshalAmp]

Indomitus offers new releases. These plug some holes in the range, but as you've spotted yourself, they're not a ready-to-go Ultramarines army.

 

If one wanted to go full Indomitus, that's going full Melee. So either don't build around Overwatch and choose a Melee focussed Chapter or don't limit yourself to the box and wait for multipart kits of units you can use.

 

If I was starting an Ultramarines army from scratch, I personally wouldn't find a place for many Indomitus units, especially after the changes to Look Out, Sir!.

The bikes are sweet, they profit immensely from the Chaplain on a Bike though and he's not in the box.

 

You then have 4 Melee oriented Characters (Cpt, Lt, Judiciar and arguably the Ancient) and 3 Bladeguard and they can synergize nicely.
And then you have 5 Troop models.

That's a total of 8 and thus not nearly enough to screen your Characters long enough.

And without an Assault Intercessor or Bladeguard Multipart kit, you can't really double down on the screen/ buffed units without getting another half box.

 

With the units you've listed, 2 or 3 boxes of Intercessors to combat squad, an Apothecary and 2 Redemptors sound like what you might want to get.

Also the Primaris Techmarine, at least one, for the Dreads.

With that as a core, you can then add Cpts, Lts and maybe a Chaplain sans Bike to what essentially is a 1200pts gunline - and gunlines do Overwatch rather well.

By pushing that gunline forward and adding some transports, you can obtain board control.

An Indomitus Character - any one - surrounded by one or two units of Assault Intercessors or Bladeguard will make a nasty shock attack force to increase your overall threat range.

 

Do you think you might like that approach?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

For the price you can’t go wrong.

[Godfrey]

Who overwatches better, aggressors with flamers, or centurions with flamers?

 

Aggressors probably overwatch better with their other weapons, despite the auto hits.

 

I like the intercessor gun line feel, especially with some walkers. Having dreadnoughts and invictor warsuits, would make the army have a nice walker feel.

 

I haven't played in so long I don't know how much of a melee unit I'll need to take out comparable melee threats. Or, how much of what I have can survive charges after overwatch. I've watched a bunch of 9e battle reps, and melee seems to come very quick, without the need of transports.

 

I was thinking of putting two invictor warsuits forward with a flamer aggressor unit behind them with apoth. Then push forward with intercessor gun line, with a captain throwing out his aura between as much as he can. Dreads in back with techmarine.

 

I'm not sure how that plays out with army slots though

[Cruor Vault]

If you're looking to get back into the game with Ultramarines I suggest getting your hands on at least one copy of the space marine half of the Dark Imperium, Shadowspear, and Indomitus boxes.  All the models in them are excellent additions to any Marine army.  eBay is a great place to find these guys for a decent price without having to get the whole box.

 

While they are out of print, the Tooth and Claw and Wake the Dead boxes are AMAZING discounts on the multi-part kits.  There might be some still kicking around online or in FLGS.  The 'Start Collecting:Primaris Space Wolves' box is also a really excellent deal, which despite it's name is almost entirely made up of generic kits usable by any chapter.

 

Who overwatches better, aggressors with flamers, or centurions with flamers?

Aggressors probably overwatch better with their other weapons, despite the auto hits.

 

They're both quite bad at overwatch in reality.  A LOT of charges come from outside of 8" range, rendering the flamers useless during overwatch.  Centurions also took a horrific point increase going into 9th.  Aggressors with the Boltstorm Gauntlets are much better for overwatch. Even though they only hit on 6's, the volume of fire is so high they usually come out about the same or better than flamers and don't have the range issues.

 

 

I like the intercessor gun line feel, especially with some walkers. Having dreadnoughts and invictor warsuits, would make the army have a nice walker feel.

I haven't played in so long I don't know how much of a melee unit I'll need to take out comparable melee threats. Or, how much of what I have can survive charges after overwatch. I've watched a bunch of 9e battle reps, and melee seems to come very quick, without the need of transports.

 

 

Redemptor Dreadnoughts and Invictor Warsuits are both going to be excellent units in 9th edition.  Their mobility, volume of fire and melee threat is really good for their price.  Now that they can shoot in melee I expect we're going to see a LOT of Redemptors running around solo smashing people off objectives.  Double so once the game shifts away from the heavy alpha strike builds 8th edition encouraged.

 

Godfrey, on 22 Jul 2020 - 10:42 AM, said:

I was thinking of putting two invictor warsuits forward with a flamer aggressor unit behind them with apoth. Then push forward with intercessor gun line, with a captain throwing out his aura between as much as he can. Dreads in back with techmarine.

I'm not sure how that plays out with army slots though

 

Luckily the Battallion formation (which is essentially the old FOC from previous editions) allows for up to 6 elites choices!  So you're fine there.  That being said I would strongly encourage the Boltstorm over Flamestorm load out on Aggressors.  Ultramarines also have some AMAZING special characters, who bring a lot of awesome abilities to the table.  Calgar and TIgurius are auto includes in every list I make.  Cassius and Chronus are always excellent additions if they compliment your army and even Sicarius and Telion have their place.

 

[Godfrey]

I think I'm going to pick up the start collecting primaris space wolves box. Seems like a solid box for what I want to field.

 

By the time I field the UM characters, we'll see what I can afford otherwise. But I know I prefer redundancy, so 2 invictors, 2 redemptors, seems smart. Tigurius looks great. Cassius would be great to link up with an intercessor sgt with thunder hammer.

 

I'm not sure if Calgar will fit my list concept, and be affordable considering the other items I want.

 

3 bolter aggressors with 3 units of intercessors walking nearby.

[Captain Idaho]

Firstly; welcome to the Temple of Hera!

 

Whilst the Indomitus boxed set is definitely not a usual Ultramarines army, it is cheap for a core to build around. Or rather than being the core, it's your additional units to flesh out then you get the usual core alongside it/after.

 

As an Ultramarines player, I think you'll be well served by buying some Troops choices afterwards. Perhaps an Impulsor too.

 

Primaris only or are you planning on mixing and matching with Classic Marines? The most competitive forces will utilise a selection of both I feel.

 

In particular, Devastators are very cheap and provide excellent firepower now. Grav-cannon squads will nuke the enemy when using the Strategum alongside them. (Gravitic Amplification)

 

Other Classic Marines choices that are strong are Vanguard Veterans, Bike squads (those special weapons are rocking) as well as Land Raiders (though expensive so probably not in your build), Centurions and Whirlwinds and Thunderfire cannons.

 

That's not to say other choices aren't good, but alongside Primaris particularly these units mentioned have great strength.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Captain Idaho

[Godfrey]

Most of the recent "classic" units didn't exist in 3e and 4e when I played Black Templars. I had 4,000 pts back then.

 

I'm pretty open to playing anything, it's just about what I play first right now. Over time, I'll likely end up with 1 of everything.

 

I never had librarians, whirlwinds, or drop pods, when I played BT, so I might get them sooner. Librarians and whirlwinds obviously weren't allowed back then.

[Godfrey]

I think devastators in a drop pod will be very strong in 9e.

 

Its just a shame that Indomitus is so melee centered. I'm trying to restart with a walker and shooter theme. The big draw I have to Indomitus is actually the book, since I don't have any of the recent books.

 

I'm pretty fair with conversions. I'm wondering if I get my hands on some weapons, if i could make the melee units into ranged ones.

[mel_danes]

Snip'

 

I'm pretty fair with conversions. I'm wondering if I get my hands on some weapons, if i could make the melee units into ranged ones.

Just bought a full set of 10 pairs of arms and Auto Bolt rifles off ebay for this very consideration.

These new running legs are too good to pass up, on what will come to be a common conversion.

[Paulinus]

The Indomitus box is a great buy for what you get. I picked up two

 

But not too many models will make it to my Ultramarines army.

 

Assault Intercessors will likely all go to my Flesh Tearer list. Probably a large group with Seth in strategic reserve.

 

I may paint up 5 of them just to have in my Ultras.

 

exterminators I may use with the ultras with the other squad I’ll get adding to my Deathwatch.

 

The bikes may see some use with my ultras but again may be better suited for my other armies,

 

The characters, ugh, where do I start. Not of them fit the look of the Ultras. But will fit well with the Fleah Tearers and maybe the Deathwatch with some converting. The Lt is the only I may use with Ultramarines.

 

I really hate the banner bearer but having that option as dark angel Deathwatch dude will be nice since I can’t normally get a standard bearer.

 

The Judiciar. Love the rules hate the model. Head swap will do but probably far better in my Flesh Tearers. Won’t hurt the Ultras if you have a good melee block to use him with. He’s a nasty charge deterrent I think.

 

The chaplain will see some use with me if I don’t use Cassius.

 

I think you would do better to start with a Phobos army starter kit and a primaris box set if you can find them.

[Godfrey]

I think I might do as Mel_danes did. Pick up some auto bolt rifles and turn the assault intercessors into normal ones.

 

Throwing Cassius with them, and the sgt with thunder hammer. A judiciar with them would let the thunder hammer do some work first. But more than likely, keep the judiciar with aggressors and say come at me.

[Godfrey]

After doing some internet searching for points, I came up with this:

 

Calgar

Tigurius

Cassius

 

Intercessors x10 sgt with TH

Intercessors x5

Intercessors x5

 

Aggressors x3 bolter version

Primaris Apothecary

Invictor Tactical Warsuit bolter version

Invictor Tactical Warsuit bolter version

Redemptor Dreadnought (undecided loadout)

Redemptor Dreadnought (undecided loadout)

 

Eradicators x3

Eradicators x3

 

I'm thinking it should fall just shy of 2k points.

 

Is this crazy? Until I have the models, I will probably use the Indomitus HQ's. That box looks solid if I can convert the intercessors and trade out the outriders with someone.

[Paulinus]

Try to fit an Impulsor in there if you can. It will pay dividends in 9th for objective taking. Primaries are key.

[Godfrey]

Try to fit an Impulsor in there if you can. It will pay dividends in 9th for objective taking. Primaries are key.

Id probably have to turn Calgar isn't a cpt around 110pts to save enough. I really like the idea of having 4 walkers. I could also go with cheaper dreads I suppose, but I'm not sure which dreads would compliment this list the best.

[mel_danes]

The outriders should be easy to offload.

I'm looking for another set myself, just not immediately.

 

Are the Invictors your only source of advanced deployment, do you intend to use them for first turn charge shenanigans?

 

Unsupported they tend to fold up.

 

Maybe dump one, and grab that Implusor?!?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think the Outriders are one of the best units for us and hopefully we will be able to take more three per squad.

 

My Black Templar army is going to have three Impulsors... the 4++ is so good !

[Godfrey]

I think the Outriders are one of the best units for us and hopefully we will be able to take more three per squad.

 

They don't really fit my walker and gunline theme.  The shoot okay, and have a ton of anti-horde attacks on the charge, but I don't really need anti horde I think.  Also, if they tie something up in melee, I can't shoot it.

 

The Invictors would be my only form of advanced deployment.  I wouldn't throw them out incredibly far, so they have plenty of backup coming.  I would always place them super aggressive and spend the 2 CP to redploy them if needed.

 

My plan would be for the invictors to be right in front of the rest of the gunline, then use the Ultramarine stratagem to have 3 units Overwatch. (Aggressors and hopefully 2 units of intercessors, or the other warsuit)

 

I like the idea of the impulsor, however, i'm still a huge fan of redundancy in lists.  So, I'd want to take two.  I suppose the best thing I would put in one of them would be 5 intercessors (sgt with thunder hammer) and the captain or cassius.

 

The other could just be 5 intercessors to rush an objective.

 

If my whole army advances and shoots, what would the best dreadnoughts be?  should I go all ranged on them, or retain their CCW?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I always equipment my dreads with a DCCW so it makes opponents think twice about charging them plus they really smash it up in melee. I’d go with Relic Contemptors and Redemptors.

[Godfrey]

After hearing suggestions, I took the DCCW and added an impulsor with shield dome

 

Indomitus Cpt.

Indomitus Lt.

Tigurius

 

Intercessors x10 Sgt w/ TH

Intercessors x5 Sgt w/ TH

Assault Intercessors x5 Sgt w/ TH (guessing on the Sgt. being allowed to take gear)

+Impulsor /w shield dome and Storm bolter

 

Aggressors x3 w/ Boltstorm loadout

Invictor Tactical Warsuit w/ Twin Ironhail

Invictor Tactical Warsuit w/ Twin Ironhail

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought w/ DCCW and twin las

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought w/ DCCW and twin las

Primaris Apothecary

 

Eradicator x3

Eradicator x3

 

Total: Should be 1999 points.

 

I'm not sure which character should ride in the Impulsor with the assault intercessors, but I figure one of them should.  Either that, or they run alone and the characters support the gunline.

 

This makes me want Indomitus Box and Start Collecting Primaris Space Wolves Box

[Paulinus]

Looks like a fun list. Multiple threats. Most things seem to have purpose. Good flexibility. I assume the Capt will be a chapter master?

 

You’ll love the relic contemptors. I think it was BLack Blow Fly who mentioned how surprising their speed is but it is also how resilient they are. They make a great anchor and distraction carnifex. My regular opponents are starting to see how much effort it takes to kill one let alone two.

 

The invictors are going to create so many head games in your opponents lol.

 

Lately I’ve been riding Tigurius in my Impulsor with my TH Intercessor squad. It gives me some mobility with him to get his powers where they might be needed. My last game I was set up perfectly to get off a null zone near Mortarion but the dice were fickle with me and he flubbed lol. The tactic was sound, the dice were not. The Impulsor gives you such a range benefit being able to get out after moving.

 

Just be careful not to get too isolated at Characters are much easier to kill.

[Prot]

After doing some internet searching for points, I came up with this:

 

Calgar

Tigurius

Cassius

 

Intercessors x10 sgt with TH

Intercessors x5

Intercessors x5

 

Aggressors x3 bolter version

Primaris Apothecary

Invictor Tactical Warsuit bolter version

Invictor Tactical Warsuit bolter version

Redemptor Dreadnought (undecided loadout)

Redemptor Dreadnought (undecided loadout)

 

Eradicators x3

Eradicators x3

 

I'm thinking it should fall just shy of 2k points.

 

Is this crazy? Until I have the models, I will probably use the Indomitus HQ's. That box looks solid if I can convert the intercessors and trade out the outriders with someone.

 

 

In 8th edition, I think that list would be fairly decent as a shooting wedge of bodies supported by aura's. 

 

In 9th edition, I think by turn 3 a competent opponent will probably have your characters in serious jeopardy. I am definitely in the camp of 'you could use an impulsor'. No matter what load out, you will benefit from 1. protecting characters, longer, and 2. moving to challenge a quarter or grab an objective. There's nothing wrong with advancing an Impulsor, or even leading a charge with it -or- defending a charge with it (-2 to charge it.)

 

I keep saying over and over, but at the risk of sounding like a broken record... through my last 10-12 games of 9th, there wasn't one game where I thought... 'Gees, my army is too fast, I need to slow it down.'  

 

The bad news is you lose your aura's quickly, and you find your shooting is a little diminished as a result, but UM is pretty good at compensating for lack of aura's. 

 

Your forward press of Warsuits is not advisable as others have said, you're leaving them alone. BUT here's one trick I do, especially if I don't have Incursors which may help you out here: Since deployment is alternating. Put a unit or two (this can be your Warsuit) in a compromising position. Get your opponent to deploy aggressively as a result. then use your Strat to pull those units back into your zone defensively. 

 

I just did this VS. Astra Militarum and it worked very nicely. I actually used it to shift the appearance of my 'strong' flank, and went to the opposite flank. A Warsuit is a great tactical unit for this 'trick' with Ultra's. Only the most savvy of opponent will completely ignore this.

 

I do think you're light on units. I also would not take Troops in squads of 10. (Blast disadvantage/harder to hide.)