How will you DW/RW in 9e?

[Bloody Legionnaire]

With the changes to detachments from 8e it seems like playing a DW/RW Army will be viable but unless DW and RW unlock bikes and terminators respectively as troops, it seems like the list will struggle completing missions.

 

Will you guys just take troops in your lists to mitigate that?

[Berzul]

Yes.

[G8Keeper]

I'm going to try 2 small troops units at first. Keep it minimal in probably an outrider for RW.

[ValourousHeart]

I don't know yet.  I'm waiting to pick up my book this weekend to see how much flexibility I have to build a win condition.

 

I expect that I'll find something in the rules that provides a win condition that doesn't require troops.  But I also expect that win condition will require me preventing my opponent from scoring points more so than just trying to out score my opponent. 

 

It could also be a win condition intended to be used by certain armies in a certain style, but is able to be adapted for a non-standard play style.

[Brother Bahram]

Going for two minimal troops right now.

Maybe putting them in Drop Pods.

Hope there is something that unlocks our problem..

(ie Beilial make Elite -> Troops)

Edited July 23, 2020 by Brother Bahram

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Brother Bahram

That's what I'm hoping for too. In the meantime I was actually thinking about using Infiltrators. I don't know much about DW/RW fluff as it pertains to how they operate, but I was imagining Infiltrators sneak in, confirm the targets, and then DW/RW come in to do their thing. 

[Gederas]

Brother Bahram

 

That's what I'm hoping for too. In the meantime I was actually thinking about using Infiltrators. I don't know much about DW/RW fluff as it pertains to how they operate, but I was imagining Infiltrators sneak in, confirm the targets, and then DW/RW come in to do their thing. 

Honestly, that's what I was originally planning with my Infiltrators. Horus Heresy fluff has the Ravenwing order both as the bike/speeder/flyer group, but also the scouting group.

 

Then the Outriders were revealed and but the kibosh on that idea :lol:

[Herbington]

So with the latest FAQ, we can take everything in the box as Dark Angels

 

But - I haven't seen anything that gives Outriders RAVENWING or the Bladeguard the DEATHWING keyword. Am I missing something?

[oldmanlee]

So with the latest FAQ, we can take everything in the box as Dark AngelsBut - I haven't seen anything that gives Outriders RAVENWING or the Bladeguard the DEATHWING keyword. Am I missing something?

Nope you are not the new units only get the dark Angels key word nothing about deathwing or ravenwing

[RayJ]

So with the latest FAQ, we can take everything in the box as Dark Angels

 

But - I haven't seen anything that gives Outriders RAVENWING or the Bladeguard the DEATHWING keyword. Am I missing something?

 

My educated guess says there's still incoming FAQ/Errata to include yet-to-be-seen units, and that these abilities will be provided in Errata to respective codexes instead of the Edge of Silence book.

[WrathOfTheLion]

That would make sense. I think the point of what was said in the articles on WarCom was to guide on how to paint the miniatures when the boxset is in hand.

Things like the Chaplain on bike are not included that I know of in the Edge of Silence book, so there is probably some other document that would include that, the ATV, etc.

Edited July 23, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Wrath of Bruinen]

In any competitive setting I’ll still be running some scouts for scoring etc, but for casual games i can’t wait to dive into some pure DeathRaven

[Grand Master Raziel]

My last effort at a competitive list was a double battalion with all the Ravenwing stuff in the first, and the second was Ezekial, some Scouts, 10 Intercessors, 3 Eliminators, and a Techmarine cause he was the cheapest HQ I could use to fill that mandatory slot. Now I only have to field a single battalion, so I'll basically be able to drop 3 Scout Squads and the Techmarine.

Deathwing is even easier because battalions have 6 Elites slots. If you can't fit all the Deathwing you want in a battalion, you may have a problem. 3 squads of Scouts don't cost much and provide some cheap units to sit on objectives while your Deathwing units go forth and massacre things. That's certainly not something you want to tie down 200+ point Deathwing Terminator squads for.

[ValourousHeart]

Hope there is something that unlocks our problem..

(ie Beilial make Elite -> Troops)

 

GW hasn't done that in 5 editions, so I think it is a foolish strategy to put that broken record on infinite repeat.  How about trying a strategy that might actually get some traction because it is based on what GW is doing right now.

 

There are 2 armies right now that have altered the rules for the Warlord Command Benefit.  Imperial Knights and Dark Eldar.

 

How did they do it?  They gave them specific criteria for how to build their detachments in order to receive the full refund of that first detachment.

 

The same could be done for both Deathwing and Ravenwing.  Give Belial a command benefit "if Belial is your Warlord and taken in a Vanguard detachment with at least 3 units with the Deathwing keyword, +3 CP.  Sammie could have the same command benefit except with and Outrider detachment and 3 units with the Ravenwing keyword.

[jay170788]

I am hoping for the refund on Ravenwing Outrider detachment. I don’t want to have to take infantry in a Ravenwing army. Yeah the bikes may struggle with the action secondaries but it will be an incredibly fun army. Edited July 24, 2020 by jay170788

[ValourousHeart]

I am hoping for the refund on Ravenwing Outrider detachment. I don’t want to have to take infantry in a Ravenwing army. Yeah the bikes may struggle with the action secondaries but it will be an incredibly fun army.

 

I don't think we have anything to worry about.

 

The 2 most iconic army builds are a Gun Line and an Assault Army.  And 2 of the most common objectives are First Blood and Line Breaker.  The gun line has a better chance to get first blood, and the assault army has the better chance to get line breaker.  But both armies can potentially score either objective.  Well Ravenwing is a Gun Line that moves like an Assault Army, so we would also have a good chance to get both of those objectives.

 

We also know that Imperial Knights are going to suffer more than RW when it comes to action objectives.  So there are going to be objectives available that could be employed by IK players to get them a chance to win.  And much like the first blood and line breaker I described above, some of those objectives will be something that RW is able to accomplish and might be even something we excel at.

 

And finally I am not yet so cynical to think that GW will make it so that they only way IK can have a sight chance to win is to only ever play the mission and objectives in the IK codex.  Now that mission and objectives could favor the IK, but there will still be missions and objectives from the main rule book that IK will have a chance to win.

 

So I think that we will be building our objectives into our lists.  There will be a whole sub-meta around which objectives are best for a specific build.  And we'll start seeing discussions around tying unit changes with objective changes and vice versa.

[Berzul]

I really do not expect for our army to ever have the capabilities to deploy itself without the Greenwing in any equal footing to other regular armies of Adeptus Astartes. Neither through specialist detachments, nor through Named Characters that could convert elites or fast attack choices into troops. The whole design idea and the very spirit of the detachment mechanic, as it seems to be, from the way the game presents itself, is clearly focused on armies having troops. To the point that even despite their efforts to making them useful, they even resort to making them... well, not mandatory, but almost mandatory.

 

Now, if you want to play casually, being penalized some CP is no big deal. Just, don't take a basic detachment, and go for vanguards and spearheads, and suffer the CP cost. Which, considering we have 1 CP per round now, is not the end of the world. You still have a way of getting some CP.

 

Beyond that, I honestly see no way we are ever going to get "counts as troops" or something, ever again in this game.

 

In that spirit, all we can do is buff our lists with troops. Good thing is, we have good options for it. I mean, even if it is just a matter of bringing in one single squad of barebone and minimal size scouts in a patrol detachment.

[SvenIronhand]

I think that I'll run the following in addition to Greenwing:

 

-A squad of vanilla Termies with Belial and an Ancient

-A  Land Raider with some DW Knights inside

-3x Ravenwing Black Knights

-3x Ravenwing

[Skywrath]

I'm going to take a leaf (pun not intended) of that champion's players list and not have troops at all - only aggressors holding the points for my "default" list. As for the DW/RW - For Deathwing I'll still be running my trifecta of the DWA (MoM, Pennant) DWC (Key) and those 10 DWK.

 

I have six variations of my DA lists (one for each wing), so my deathwing variation would have Belial and some Assault Intercessors with 2 xRepulsor Executioner. 

 

Onto the Ravenwing. In general - 9 Outriders, Sammael, Ravenwing Apothecary and the Champion would all be staples in any of those 6 lists that need a RW component. If not, then it would probably be <insert appropriate amount here> of outriders, and either a Darkshroud or a LS Vengeance for those lists that don't focus on that. I could go onto my other 4 lists themed around Firewing, Stormwing, Dreadwing and the Ironwing, but that will take more time than I already have ;p