DA Rolled Into Marines Codex

[Syphid]

Man, I want off this ride. I remember when our scouts stopped being Elites and how great that was... I'm tired of the roller coaster of "unit x is bad... now unit x is good, buy lots of unit x!... now unit x is bad again, buy new unit y!" We've come full circle now to DA being a supplement to C:SM like in 3rd edition.

 

I'm just want to go back to playing 5th ed codex with the community errata and updated DW/RW models and call it a day.

[Master Sheol]

Man, I want off this ride. I remember when our scouts stopped being Elites and how great that was... I'm tired of the roller coaster of "unit x is bad... now unit x is good, buy lots of unit x!... now unit x is bad again, buy new unit y!" We've come full circle now to DA being a supplement to C:SM like in 3rd edition.

 

I'm just want to go back to playing 5th ed codex with the community errata and updated DW/RW models and call it a day.

You mean that ugly codex that came out in 4th edition and was the worst DA codex ever?

[Syphid]

Fix the codex with the changes it needed, but before we got into the madness of formations/command points/objective cards/primaris/legends and so on.

[Master Sheol]

Fix the codex with the changes it needed, but before we got into the madness of formations/command points/objective cards/primaris/legends and so on.

That codex had all things overcosted and when codex SM 5ed came out had subpar equipments too that GW took more than one year to fix through a FAQ/errata

Even with that "patch" the RW bikes were so overcosted that the only decent build was Belial+DW squad made troops by him a couple of LS and a couple of predators/LR

In the same edition the was the two codexes of death (necron and GK) that could disintegrate a DA army without effort in two turns

 

Do you really want to return to the edition where the DA were one of the most weak armies of 40k?

[Brother Tyler]

All of that is irrelevant and off topic. Feel free to start a separate "good old days" discussion about which previous edition's codex you prefer to use in lieu of the 9th edition Dark Angels codex supplement for Codex: Space Marines.

[clanfield]

there's gona be a lot of gnashing of teeth about this that's human i mean even just getting a new dex can be traumatic that said..

 

there are some up points as pointed out already:

 

all the power levels/ points will balance

new units for good or bad 

when the core dex gains stuff so do wee(provisionally)

 

i am sure the supplement will be good and contain our unique units

 

but for me this being 9 editions in ,the crux is do i still like my legion and what has changed in the fluff 

we have been blessed with some great units in the last say 10 years dw knights the flyers the new speeders to name just a few.

 

back to 3rd as a codex model i liked 3rd i struggled at the time with pamphlets and lack of fluff but i think this time it will be diferant.

 

i wonder what will be our libby powers between the codex and the supplement release or traits / relics etc

 

just my two bob 

[shabbadoo]

The net result of this will simply be that we will have to buy two books (three for those who want to use points). And we will have to do without special character, Deathwing, and Ravening units/rules.  Until then, apparently Terminators, Bikes, Outriders, and land Speeders will just have Grim Resolve (+1 to hit when not moving + Auto-pass Attrition tests).

Edited July 28, 2020 by shabbadoo

[G8Keeper]

I can't see them leaving us and the others in our predicament in the dark without a supplement for too long.  Yes we will hear calls of "9th Edtion? Marine Edition!" etc but with our armies left with potentially so many unplayable units and builds, it'd be justified imho.

Edited July 27, 2020 by G8Keeper

[Isual]

The net result of this will simply be that we will have to buy two books (three for those who want to use points). And we will have to do without special character, Deathwing, and Ravening units/rules. Until then, apparently Terminators, Bikes, Outriders, and land Speeders will just have Grim Resolve (+1 to hit when not moving + Attrition benefit).

I guess the DA supplement will be relased close to the codex if not even in the same Week.

[Shadowseer]

This is a really positive change, as it allows GW to keep a shared core of units that don't need to be reprinted in multiple books.

 

I fully welcome the model of Main Dex + Supplement for all high profile chapters.

 

Unrelated, but from some squinting at updated chapter tactics, Dark Angels will _own_ shooting.

 

Overall, looks like I'm un-casing my Unforgiven in October!

Edited July 27, 2020 by Shadowseer

[UtariOnzo]

How long did it take for the first supplements to come out for the current C:SM? I don’t recall exactly how long but I don’t think it took months. I’m pretty confident GW will do at least two of DA/BA/SW/DWatch on or near release, and the remaining two not long after

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think there were two right at release, UM and WS, then each subsequent set took another month.

[TempestBlade]

With DA rolled into the SM codex we might get access to the successor traits too. I run Blades of Vengeance so it would be nice to see those new traits come to us. Also all the CP upgrades to the techmarine, apothecary, librarian etc. Never understood why we didn’t get those in the first place

[Berzul]

With DA rolled into the SM codex we might get access to the successor traits too. I run Blades of Vengeance so it would be nice to see those new traits come to us. Also all the CP upgrades to the techmarine, apothecary, librarian etc. Never understood why we didn’t get those in the first place

That would be quite welcome. I also play successors, and having access to custom traits would be really nice.

[shabbadoo]

 

The net result of this will simply be that we will have to buy two books (three for those who want to use points). And we will have to do without special character, Deathwing, and Ravening units/rules. Until then, apparently Terminators, Bikes, Outriders, and land Speeders will just have Grim Resolve (+1 to hit when not moving + Auto-Pass Attrition tests).

I guess the DA supplement will be released close to the codex if not even in the same Week.

 

There are a lot of Dark Angels/Blood Angels/Space Wolves/Successors players out there, so from your mouth to GW's ears!

[Helias_Tancred]

Although I understand the reason behind this decision (why sell 1 book when you can sell 2) I have a very mixed feeling about it. It raises a whole lot of questions. How do I play my army when there is Codex SM and no Supplement: DA? From the fluff point of view, what happens to Deathwing and Ravenwing? Are they really now just a standart "Codex-compliant" companies? Also, are Deathwing and Ravenwing remain in the game?

I looked through one of the current supplements to C:SM - the Raven Guard one. DA Supplement should be way better than this...

 

In this case I would purchase the new marine codex when it comes out and still use DA specific stats and info from my 8th edition DA codex that the core marine codex doesn't cover. When the DA supplement comes out I would then get that and retire my DA 8e Codex to a place of honor on my shelf. I have to do the same for my Blood Angels too.

 

I own the Ultramarines and Imperial FIst supplements, mainly for the lore and I was curious about them. Overall I have a positive view of the chapter specific supplements, so I remain optimistic.

[Master Sheol]

 

 

Although I understand the reason behind this decision (why sell 1 book when you can sell 2) I have a very mixed feeling about it. It raises a whole lot of questions. How do I play my army when there is Codex SM and no Supplement: DA? From the fluff point of view, what happens to Deathwing and Ravenwing? Are they really now just a standart "Codex-compliant" companies? Also, are Deathwing and Ravenwing remain in the game?

I looked through one of the current supplements to C:SM - the Raven Guard one. DA Supplement should be way better than this...

In this case I would purchase the new marine codex when it comes out and still use DA specific stats and info from my 8th edition DA codex that the core marine codex doesn't cover. When the DA supplement comes out I would then get that and retire my DA 8e Codex to a place of honor on my shelf. I have to do the same for my Blood Angels too.

 

I own the Ultramarines and Imperial FIst supplements, mainly for the lore and I was curious about them. Overall I have a positive view of the chapter specific supplements, so I remain optimistic.

I will do the same too

I will use DA codex + PA:RotD as a "supplement" of SM codex when it will be out until the proper DA supplement will be released

[Brother Bahram]

Same here.

For now it’s Codex DA, PA: RotD and Chapter Approved

[lhg033]

In principle I dont mind the idea of being rolled into SM and having a supplement. I started in 2nd edition and got into DA in 3rd where this was the norm. (2nd edition we shared a dex with blood angels so by increments we have broken free to have our own dex)

 

My main concerns are that we have enough background fluff and that we dont get nerfed for units and/or chapter tactics (I would like to see mixed wing/deathwing/ravenwing spcific chapter tactices but then that may be too much to hope for)

[ValourousHeart]

I think the scout change is a good change.

But I understand that being an elite choice is confusing for some.

 

However I always chuckle to myself when I think if that huge rant I read on here about how dumb the Dark Talon was for having a cell in it.

The person actually thought that the DA would drag a prisoner out of the dungeon, throw them into the back of a plane and fly into battle.

As opposed to, you know, finding a Fallen during the battle, throwing him into the back of that plane and then quickly taking him back to the Rock and throwing him in a dungeon.

 

I think we got used to running scouts like Cultists, for the same reason that CSM run Cultists.

I think that a Space Marine armies should be mostly space marines, with scouts in a support role.

Just like I think that a CSM armies should be mostly CSM, with Cultists in morstly a support roll.

[bigtrouble]

...

I think we got used to running scouts like Cultists, for the same reason that CSM run Cultists.

I think that a Space Marine armies should be mostly space marines, with scouts in a support role.

Just like I think that a CSM armies should be mostly CSM, with Cultists in morstly a support roll.

That is a really good point. You may have changed my mind a bit. Curious though what the role of scouts is really supposed to be now if Infiltrators are replacing their forward deployment and area denial roles.

[UtariOnzo]

Probably ranged recon and observation specialists, alongside deep insertion and sabotage missions to get field experience while watching their fully inducted brethren operate. Phobos units are more akin in my mind to assault teams of special forces, you can drop them in behind enemy lines and they’re relatively self sufficient, but seem primarily equipped to get stuck in and strike at enemy formations as well as take and hold ground. They absolutely can conduct recce patrols, but probably aren’t intended to. While slightly less protective than other versions of Mk10 plate, the power armour signals these guys are intended to get involved in serious firefights. Scouts are not, given the even less protective carapace armour.

 

To give a real life example: in terms of the UKSF, the SAS/SBS used to do both assault missions and in field observation, but those ‘eyes on’ jobs got taken off of them and given to the Special Reconnaissance Regiment, a much less “hard action” and more “soft action” unit. This has freed up UKSF units to focus on the tougher elements of assault, prisoner/hostage rescue, capturing/killing important targets of interest etc etc, while the SRR and the SF Support Group secure perimeters and gather vital intelligence before, during and after any given mission.

[bigtrouble]

So put in reserves to swoop objectives late game or flank a priority target and provide cheap DS cover. Just very limited in applicability.

[Berzul]

The thing is, there are way too many better options than scouts. Their value was in being troop choices. As elites, I think they might get pushed back due to just plain competition in battlefield roles.

[bigtrouble]

The thing is, there are way too many better options than scouts. Their value was in being troop choices. As elites, I think they might get pushed back due to just plain competition in battlefield roles.

Right, this is a not too transparent move to devalue them. What bothers me is from the fluff angle, you NEED scouts. That isn’t optional.