Getting back into a Crusade frame of mind

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Hi everybody !

 

I really got into Imperial Fists and Black Templars when I was playing Horus Heresy... that is when I learned a lot about the legion/chapters. I really love Sigismund - he was so much fun to play. I also happen to know a lot about Templars IRL and always found them to be fascinating.

Here’s my first crack at a list using mostly units from Indomnitus...

 

 

Primaris Captain

Primaris Lieutenant

Primaris Chaplain

 

Judicar

Bladeguard Ancient

3x Bladeguard

 

5x Assault Intercessor

5x Assault Intercessor

10x Infiltrator

 

3x Outrider

3x Outrider

 

Impulsor - Shield Dome

Impulsor - Shield Dome

Impulsor - Shield Dome

 

I haven’t selected any ranged weapons for the transports yet - this is around 1500 points. Now I need some serious heavy support... I’m liking the new grav tanks and think they gel with this list (want to reach 2000 points). Thoughts and critiques are welcome.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[Sword Brother Adelard]

So far, by being able to put everything into a transport, it's rather fluffy. The Templars have a preference for a mechanised punch.

Where it is lacking is anti-tank.

If you want to wait for the Gladiators, you'll have the eradicators in the meantim, if not, an executioner?

Edited July 27, 2020 by Brother Adelard

[Medjugorje]

This list wont work because the lack of anti tank weapons. To reach 2000 points the new Eradicators would be a fine option.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m still working on finishing another army so I have time to wait on the Gladiator grav tanks... hopefully I can squeeze in some Eradicators as well.

 

Now that the keyword Fly has been nerfed just tagging enemy tanks will be stronger than ever if used judicially.

 

What do y’all recommend for the best WLT, relic and litanies ?

Edited July 27, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m thinking of taking the burning blade for my captain. It will really buff up his melee. What do y’all like for your WLTs ?

[Marshal Reinhard]

Instead of being helpful and actually answering your question, valid as it is, I'm instead going to go:

 

"Tut, tut, we call them marshals around here" :P

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Lol sorry about that ! :D

[Yossarion]

For Warlord traits in the crusade narrative style gameplay or just Black Templar list building? If you're talking about the narrative gameplay I recommend you don't take a weapon relic because you lock yourself out of using a lot of the battle traits and crusade relics. As for potent combos, the Crusaders Helm + Litany that adds 3" to the aura + Chapter Master is incredibly potent and probably the best way to play Black Templars. Having a 12" reroll hit aura is crazy good. Have Lieutenant (castellan) nearby for a 9" reroll 1s to wound aura and give your warlord the Frontline Commander trait for a 12" frontline commander aura for some crazy long range synergy. Take the new captain who is incredibly resilient to sniper fire and march up the board.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Thanks for this advice - I’m looking to build an army for matched play.

[Hymnblade]

Even though I like the Bladeguard Ancient, I think it's hard to justify his price tag with only 3 Bladeguard in the list. He costs as much as the whole squad! With 3 Impulsors, I might try to run something like 2x3 Bladeguard in one, 5 Intercessors + Judiciar in the second, 5 Intercessors + Lieutenant in the third, and then take the new bike chaplain and a marshal with jump pack. Chaplains in particular don't like being in transports, since it keeps them from using litanies. But this requires several purchases besides the Indomitus box.

 

The Burning Blade is not worth it as an upgrade for the Indomitus captain, IMO. You're paying 1CP for +2S and +1AP, which is pretty unimpressive. Even if you want him to hunt vehicles, the Sword of Judgement will do just as well against T7, and better against T8. Our best two chapter relics are the Aurillian Shroud and Ancient Breviary, IMO.

 

Frontline Commander is easily the best warlord trait from our table. Imperium's Sword or Champion of Humanity can be useful for a beatstick. Epitome of Piety has situational uses, although if you can't tailor WLT to your opponent in 9th, I think it's not worth taking. Wise Orator on a Chaplain can also be a great choice if you can't give him the Ancient Breviary.

 

Litany of Divine Protection for the 5+++ is the #1 reason to take the BT litany table. If you've got a Master of Sanctity, some of the others are decent - I've gotten a surprising amount of mileage out of Fervent Acclamation, to boost the radius of Helbrecht's three auras and the Aurillian Shroud. Boosting a Deredeo bubble or a Father of the Future aura can also be fun. On the non-BT table, Canticle of Hate can be really useful, especially the pile-in/consolidate boost. You can do lots of fight phase movement shenanigans with 12" per activation, and it makes Devout Push into a 6" heroic intervention (or, occasionally, a "scoot 6 inches to make my charge next turn easier").

[Medjugorje]

Ferment acclamation is my secound choose  -  always. especially with Helbrecht. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Also, as I learned yesterday (thanks to Battlescribe) black Templar chaplains also know the IF strat, fortress of resolve!

 

It's largely useless in 9th, but it's nice to know it's there.

[Medjugorje]

Also, as I learned yesterday (thanks to Battlescribe) black Templar chaplains also know the IF strat, fortress of resolve!

 

It's largely useless in 9th, but it's nice to know it's there.

I think thats a mistake

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Nah, we checked it. Checks out. It's better than nothing, but only marginally!

[Medjugorje]

Nah, we checked it. Checks out. It's better than nothing, but only marginally!

 I mean its FAQ´d and so not possilble anymore. 

[Hymnblade]

The FAQ only forbids us from using stuff in Codex Supplement: Imperial Fists. It doesn't say we're not IF successors.

 

The litany is mediocre for IF and even less useful for us, so I don't know when I would even want to use it, but RAW I think we arguably can.

[Medjugorje]

oh yes. Thats correct. Its not in the IF supplement, its in  Faith and Fury 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Hey guys thanks for all the advice it’s greatly appreciated and I agree two squads of Bladeguard is the way better ! I will check out the Sword of Judgement. I want my Marshall to literally BBQ the enemy alive . Edited July 29, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The FAQ only forbids us from using stuff in Codex Supplement: Imperial Fists. It doesn't say we're not IF successors.

 

The litany is mediocre for IF and even less useful for us, so I don't know when I would even want to use it, but RAW I think we arguably can.

 

I know, it takes such a weird set of things to line up to work. You need to know well in advance that a unit worth spending a CP to Overwatch within 6 inches of a chaplain is going to get charged! Which will almost guarantee it wont be!

[Frater Cornelius]

The main question is...

 

[...]

Judicar

[...]

...will this guy be converted into an Emperor's Champion?

 

Regarding list, if you want to take Jerusalem rid the galaxy of taint, I'd be happy to see more Bladeguard Vets. Two sets of 3 sounds about right. They fit into one Impulsor. Maybe as a replacement for the Ancient for the time being. The Judiciar is too awesome to drop anywhere but right into the enemy lines.

 

Personally, I am not sold on Assault Intercessors. They do very little until they hit melee. Bolt Rifle boys with a Fist are a solid replacement. They can hold objectives, which is super important this edition. Together with the Bikes, they offer great anti-infantry punch to remove screens and expose characters. Two sets of five dudes will be able to share the transport with two characters. Now, the issue with all of the above is that only two character will be able to hitch a ride.

 

Speaking of riding, have you considered the Primaris Chappy on Bike? No need for transport, mobile +2" on charges delivery and with Benediction of Fury this guy will be flipping even Custodes like they are pancakes. For onyl 130pts this friendly neighbourhood priest can be yours!

 

The final issue I can see anti tank, but there's plenty on that topic above as I can see.

[tvih]

 

Speaking of riding, have you considered the Primaris Chappy on Bike? No need for transport, mobile +2" on charges delivery and with Benediction of Fury this guy will be flipping even Custodes like they are pancakes. For onyl 130pts this friendly neighbourhood priest can be yours!

I'm actually trying to build a melee-heavy list with the Indomitus melee units at the core. i was thinking of putting 6 bladeguard into an impulsor, but that indeed precludes characters fitting in there. So then you'd want mobile chars, leaving jump or bike units as the option. But then you need fast companions for them to prevent them being sniped. Well, I figured maybe some Vanguard, possibly a couple of old type bikes (it's not meant to be competitive by any means). But even then, judiciars and such wouldn't be able to keep up, nor or course Assault Intercessors, so as such the fast element couldn't even go fast in the beginning to avoid getting overwhelmed. Emperor damn it! I end up thinking maybe it's better just to footslog everything and put jump units into deep strikes and other fast elements like bikes into tactical reserves. Ugh.... fricking melee lists.

[Frater Cornelius]

@tvih - I don't think Marines can pure melee. They are too slow for that. RG and WS would come closest, but even that costs CP and awkward list-building. Better get dakka up and running to soften the opponent and then hit with some melee. That is the reason I really do not like Assault Intercessors. You have Bikes and BGV for melee, as well as characters, that should be enough. You need dudes to hold objectives and clean up chaff, which is why shooty Intercessors are still better. It's not like they are bad in melee either.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I want a balance between melee and shooting - mech for SM is going to be really strong for SM this edition. If the new grav tanks can transport OMG !!!

 

I will definitely run a Judiciar and pray to the Emperor for a Primaris EC... I don’t think it’s asking too much really.

 

Thanks for all the feedback - this is an awesome forum for sure.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Just remember that we can no longer re-roll 1s when a transport is destroyed for seeing if our models are slain, putting expensive units inside transports has become a pretty risky prospect. 

[Medjugorje]

Just remember that we can no longer re-roll 1s when a transport is destroyed for seeing if our models are slain, putting expensive units inside transports has become a pretty risky prospect. 

but in the same time you can easy hide him.