Syward Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 I'm new to the BT, starting them up with Indomitus. Is it just me, or does the new Judiciar seem like it's the new Primaris version of the EC? Aside from not getting the HI rule, and the cool, potentially devastating Tempormortis rule, they seem to have the same/similar abilities. So I'm curious, whats the advantage to taking one over the other or taking both? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 gamewise the Judiciar is way stronger. Not in combat but his rule is massive. I had a game and this rules saved my game Syward 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5572694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Rules-wise, I actually wouldn't say they're very similar. The EC is a character-killer; the Judiciar is a utility character who happens to also be decent in combat. The fact that the Judiciar is in an Elites slot, while EC is an HQ, is a big point in favor if the Judiciar for 9th, IMO. If you want a Captain aura, a Lieutenant aura, and a Chaplain, then you can't take the EC in a battalion. Syward 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5572712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 remember the meme: "why not both" haha^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5572722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 I mean we can always just play hero hammer and do EC, Grimaldus, Helsbrecht, and the judiciar in one giant bubble of death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5572813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Multiple Judiciars might be worthwhile, if you really want to shut down countercharges. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5572828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 (edited) You can always upgrade a company champion to a chapter champion, 1CP, fewer points, and you don’t need to use an HQ slot. Not that much worse than an EC all things considered. Less effective against high T models, but hey. Edited July 28, 2020 by Brother Talarian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5572874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 We can't use the Chapter Champion stratagem, sadly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5572881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Multiple Judiciars might be worthwhile, if you really want to shut down countercharges. I tried already. Its too expensive in points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 We can't use the Chapter Champion stratagem, sadly. Oh no, how come? What did I miss? Is it because it’s in the F&F book? I thought they were still usable? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordValandil Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 We can't use the Chapter Champion stratagem, sadly.Oh no, how come? What did I miss? Is it because it’s in the F&F book? I thought they were still usable? Yes, it’s in F&F. It’s because the Emperors Champion is our equivalent to a chapter champion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Right, I’m saying instead of using the EC, use the chapter champion and Judiciar. That way you don’t have to use a HQ slot for the EC, and have a similar role filled, albeit slightly weaker Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 BT cant use Chapter Champion. Its a rule on Faith and Fury. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 BT cant use Chapter Champion. Its a rule on Faith and Fury. That is.... unfortunate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 One of the big things about the Judiciar is it can ride in primaria transports. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 It's on page 44 of F&F, right after the restriction on librarians. Being able to put a Judiciar in an Impulsor and launch him 30" is very good for getting his ability where you need it. Brother Talarian and Syward 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Carpenter Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Quite shocked to read people are willing to lose the ec in their list. Isn't the ec our most defining unit choice? Brother Kraskor 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 (edited) I sure hope they make a primaris version soon. Edited July 28, 2020 by Black Blow Fly Syward and Medjugorje 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarion Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 (edited) Quite shocked to read people are willing to lose the ec in their list. Isn't the ec our most defining unit choice? Points went up, he's a character beatstick that specializes in killing characters, but there are plenty of space marine units that beat things up and most of our characters can kill other characters fairly reliably. Take a look at the Judiciar, not as offensive focused but the Tempermortis is actually broken when fighting vs another assault army and he will still mulch characters and some units in combat. He is still a great model and unit, but he's also an HQ slot and if you are looking at it from an optimized POV its harder to justify. From a crusade perspective bring him whenever you want and engage in glorious melee combat for the Emperor! Edited July 28, 2020 by Yossarion Medjugorje 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Quite shocked to read people are willing to lose the ec in their list. Isn't the ec our most defining unit choice? Eh. Under the current rules, he's just a guy with a sword. If he got Vows or some version of the challenge rule again, he'd be a lot more fun to play. In small games he can wreak havoc, but in bigger games, I feel like he either dies before he gets to combat, or by the time he makes it there, he doesn't make a difference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 (edited) Quite shocked to read people are willing to lose the ec in their list. Isn't the ec our most defining unit choice? In fluffy games i play him. But I dont think he is that strong. VOWS !!! thats what he need. Edited July 28, 2020 by Medjugorje Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syward Posted July 28, 2020 Author Share Posted July 28, 2020 (edited) I sure hope they make a primaris version soon. Me too. I was really hoping/thinking they'd have a Primaris version when they released the rules in F&F. Quite shocked to read people are willing to lose the ec in their list. Isn't the ec our most defining unit choice? Eh. Under the current rules, he's just a guy with a sword. If he got Vows or some version of the challenge rule again, he'd be a lot more fun to play. In small games he can wreak havoc, but in bigger games, I feel like he either dies before he gets to combat, or by the time he makes it there, he doesn't make a difference. This was what I was thinking when I was reading & comparing the rules for EC vs the Judiciar. The EC, as cool as the concept is, doesn't seem to be all that great for the points & HQ slot when we could take a Judiciar in an elite slot & save the HQ slots for models with better utility (Capt/Chap/Lt). That's what prompted my post & why I was asking if there was a benefit/reason to take him. It'd be cool if they brought back vows with the EC and of course, give him the Primaris treatment. Edited July 28, 2020 by Syward Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtBlaster Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 The judiciar takes an elite slot not an HQ slot, which if anything is an even more crowded slot for us. But they don't compete for slots at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 (edited) This edition will see less characters then before because detachment cost cp and character are not that save anymore. And then you have to choose which HQ slot if max. of 3 (because Battallion will be our choice). Captain or High Marshal is a must have so far Chaplain is another must have. then the third one is always Lieutenant/Castelan vs Emperors champion and therefore a castelan is better. next step: If you choose a lieutenant for buffs then you can take a Judiciar as an elite '(not as strong as the EC but not bad ) and this one buffes the army too. Edited July 28, 2020 by Medjugorje Syward 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 The judiciar takes an elite slot not an HQ slot, which if anything is an even more crowded slot for us. But they don't compete for slots at all. Yes, but a batallion gives us 6 Elite slots vs only 3 HQ. And we need those HQ to be force multipiers, not just a beatstick character. Syward 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365497-ec-vs-judiciar/#findComment-5573460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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