Direction of 40k

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I feel that all the factions are like the indices for the start of eighth with the PA supplements and I’m sure that was the intent.

[Azekai]

So I was reading through the 9th ed core book last night and I did notice one thing- Fuelling the Golden Throne has been ret-conned to only devour hundreds of souls per day, not the previously established thousands.

Big E going on a diet.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Or bigger psykers...

[The Yncarne]

I was hoping Gathering Storm would introduce a new, reimagined line of Eldar without retconning the older stuff.

 

At a higher level, I have multiples of anything I really want since starting in 1989. Old age has caught up with me painting wise. but I still like to try to paint an army or two every edition.

 

However, I have started to pare down stuff this spring. I've gotten rid of 2 marine chapters and a CSM patrol. I expect to remove a Tyranid army soon by making it the "house army" where we play.

 

If something isn't your jam, put it away. If you feel like you'll never come back, let it go.

[Fajita Fan]

Gameplay-wise I'm hoping for a you-go-I-go system someday.

[mughi3]

Gameplay-wise I'm hoping for a you-go-I-go system someday.

Do you mean alternating activation like DUST 1947, because what we have now is igo/ugo or do you mean some version of the new apocalypse rules?

[Fajita Fan]

 

Gameplay-wise I'm hoping for a you-go-I-go system someday.

Do you mean alternating activation like DUST 1947, because what we have now is igo/ugo or do you mean some version of the new apocalypse rules?

 

Yeah, I-move-you-move like in Titanicus. I'm really starting to enjoy that style.

[Bat33.1]

Something I do wonder about is the digital code to unlock books and codex in the app, now this is speculation as I've not seen it spelled out by GW but where will the code actually be?

Printed in the physical book or could GW be tricksy enough to include it at point of sale in their own stores on the sales receipt and on the invoice from the GW website?

 

Like I said pure speculation here but it would maximise GW profits from book printing and app development costs?

[armarnis]

Limiting it to their sales avenues makes no sense as it would show off their greedy pickpocketing TWICE way too open

[Xenith]

GW isn't going anywhere. They'll eventually get round to eldar, and new models will be in scale with the newer Eldar models.

 

Primaris are an attempt at

1) rescaling marines to be bigger than guardsmen (achieved)

2) making everything IP friendly, and unfriendly to 3rd party bitz sellers (achieved)

 

Eldar dont need to be much taller than they are now, maybe just standing upright. What will get changed are the 20+ year old models like the falcon chassis and vypers. 

 

I'd fully expect:

 

1) falcon/serpent combi kit

2) vyper/venom/other 6 man light transport kit, like the harlequins have.

[ThePenitentOne]

I think they should focus on getting finecast out of the Eldar range first. Vehicles are fine.

[apologist]

[...]I have been kind of pruning the tree so to speak, selling this kit or this model. Ill never sell my SW completely, its been a work in progress for 20 years. I also wouldnt sell my HH Thousand Sons, although that army is a bit smaller than my wolves. Obviously I have no desire to add to my wolves and pick up more Primaris kits, I just dont need them to play. 

 

So my big question is, do I sell my eldar? I have a 3-4,000 pt eldar army I have worked on for years. No paint on them (nor any plans to paint them), but I do play them at times and have magnetized alot of the models and converted them. In recent years I have always tried to stay ahead of GW decisions that affect me financially. I'm still bitter about the Fantasy debacle- not that GW dropped fantasy, but the fact I didn't sell my armies earlier. So many folks ridiculed those of us that had said GW was going to drop the line, (I hate the sky is falling saying) so I waited, and ultimately it probably made the difference in several hundred dollars and to me, that's a big deal. 

 

So GW decided the best way to make money was to essentially remake the whole SM line. I accept the fact that you can't add models forever and at some point there are just too many units to even try to balance (again why I love HH). So we now have all these new Primaris that for the most part are huge compared to alot of other races not named Chaos Space Marines. So whats in line for the other races? So it looks like GW is in the process of redoing most of the Necrons. I didnt get the new box set, but it looks like most of those models make the older ones look tiny. Is this going to happen for all the races? Are we going to see an upscale on new models and gradually just phase all the older models out? Will some of the races just be squatted, especially those that dont seem to make GW any money? The Eldar in particular seem kind of vulnerable. Why? Well they really cant add any more units, the army has a ton of them already. They also can't really make new units larger without throwing the whole scale out of whack can they? I mean part of the hobby is aesthetics, and how models look on the table. Obviously Primaris are on deck now and I dont think anything is going to happen to Eldar in the near future, but I have the Bill Belichick  philosophy on unpainted models, Id rather get rid of them a year or two early, then a year too late. 

 

Now if I did get rid of the eldar, I would probably replace them with a much small project, like some Crons as they just came out. 

 

What do you guys think about all this, and sorry for the background dump!

 

Coo, lots to take in here. The two elements I'd like to focus on are whether you should sell your Eldar; and a discussion on changes in scale/size. The first is a bit simpler. Having bought and sold armies myself, my decision tends to come down to the few questions:

• Could they be easily replaced, or am I particularly proud of, or attached to, the modelling or painting I've done? 
• Does the whole army need to go en masse to get a worthwhile return, or should I part it out and hold on to bits I particularly like?
• Do I get enjoyment out of the army – either visually, or owing to a particular style of play?
• Does the army feel stale or outdated, or does it feel classic and iconic?

When I answer those, I tend to get a good idea of what is actually valuable to me. I've never regretted selling armies, because the models that had some meaning to me – whether because they were gifts, particular highpoints of my skills at the time, etc. – I've decided to hold on to. That enables me to clear the decks of extraneous stuff, rather than keeping collections together for the sake of it. 

 

Primarily I'm a modeller and painter, rather than collector or gamer, though undoubtedly there's some crossover. The questions you ask yourself should relate to what you value from the hobby. From my perspective, an unpainted Eldar army is:

• Relatively easily replaced, though you might hold onto particular conversions if you're very keen on them. I imagine magnetisation will be a selling point for some buyers.
• With no colour/basing scheme, it could either go as a collection, or be broken up.

However, you'll have to answer the questions yourself – particularly those on enjoyment and freshness, which are purely subjective. On that note, I think this now leads into the second element – a change in scale and size. From your post, it sounds like you're concerned that a new, updated set of sculpts will come out that make them look dated or old-fashioned; thus devaluing your figures. I've been in similar situations, and have got rid of some old armies prior to their inevitable update. However, I have also held on to some collections despite that upcoming update. The choice usually came down to the questions above. Sometimes I had no real reason to get rid of a force, or felt I wouldn't get what I felt they were worth to me. 

 

Having been in since '87, you've seen similar 'soft changes' happen before – the changeover on orks from Kev Adams to Brian Nelson's visions, for example; or the change from beakie marines to the grill-faced Mark VII; or the overhaul in Necrons from metal to plastic. I call these soft changes because none of these invalidated the previous models, but did replace them in rules. This is in contrast to a lot of updates today, where the new models are added as new unit types. Intercessors are clearly the spiritual successor to Tactical marines, but they are different in game. This makes the decision to sell or not slightly different.

 

You might decide such visual changes make little difference, and keep fielding the old figures alongside the new. From your post, it sounds like you don't like that approach, so if that's the case, you might be best getting rid early on. Eldar are in a peculiar place in that they've never had a particularly marked visual change. Things have been updated, but they've consistently been under Jes Goodwin's wing, and kept a strong aesthetic. Most new Eldar models sit alongside the old quite nicely – the various iterations of Banshee, for example, could all conceivably work in the same force, perhaps as variants on shrines.

 

Nevertheless, if the idea of an aesthetic like that doesn't appeal, then you might want to move them on. Alternatively, you might decide to hold on to them and keep them as a closed force: only adding period-appropriate old models. There's a whole number of related movements – Oldhammer, Middlehammer, Retrohammer – that focus on this approach. You'll likely find willing buyers there if you do decide to move on the army; or a whole new group to enjoy a different take on the hobby if you decide to hold onto them.

 

+++

 

Another option: Rather than getting rid of whole armies, why not slim down the armies you have? Keep your Space Wolves as your big army, but reduce your Thousand Sons, Eldar etc. to small strikeforces made up of your favourite models. Small scale skirmishes are a lot of fun, and leave you space to pick up that Necron (or other) force that's tickled your fancy, without the pressure to build it up to a similar large size as your other forces. This is something that I started doing – rather than aiming for X thousand points from the get-go, I'd build a couple of squads of troops and a character or tank. Sometimes that scratched the itch, and I ended up with a nice skirmish force. Sometimes, I'd build further; sometimes I'd sell them off as a core for someone else to build round.

 

The point is that removing the weight of expectation from yourself lets you enjoy the hobby and your models more.

 

+++

 

The fate of Warhammer – and the concomitant drop in secondary value of armies – is a good reason to sell now. You'll usually be able to get a decent price for an army of current miniatures. However, in my experience, the drop in value is usually temporary. If you wait a few years, scarcity and nostalgia tends to mean a whole cohesive army of classic miniatures can command a greater price. It's far from guaranteed, but if you've no immediate pressure, then holding on to them can be worthwhile.

 

On a related note, we can't know the future. When Warhammer was dropped, the price you could get for Warhammer figures slumped. However, in subsequent years lots of them have crept back up, as they become workable in Age of Sigmar, or simply rare and collectible. Finally, the rumours of Warhammer: The Old World might mean that a complete Warhammer army becomes highly desirable.

 

+++

 

Having seen lots of 'soft' and 'hard' changes over the years, I decided years ago that I was just going to make models and armies that I liked, and if they were compatible with the rules, all the better. If not, the models could count-as, or just look nice on a shelf.

 

Since I tend to take my inspiration from the core background – the classic bits that never really change, rather than highly-specialised themes – I've tended to find that little, if anything, of my armies has become genuinely unusable; and I'm in the happy situation that my gaming group is like-minded, and happy to play with slightly egregious or unusual units. If you're in a similar position, or you have the option to store things safely, then my suggestion would be to thin out the armies you have using the approaches above. It's a halfway house that means you keep what you're really keen on, and get rid of clutter.

Edited August 4, 2020 by apologist

[Scribe]

Primaris are an attempt at

1) rescaling marines to be bigger than guardsmen (achieved)

2) making everything IP friendly, and unfriendly to 3rd party bitz sellers (achieved)

.

3. Replacement of the best selling line, 'forcing' the majority of players/collectors to rebuild their army if they want to buy anything new.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I'd say expanding their best selling line, adding units hitherto unheard of, rather than just refreshing the same tactical, assault and devestator kits over and over again, or pulling stuff out of nowhere like centurions "that were always there".

 

Anyway most people seem to mix and match oldmarines and primaris, weakening your argument further

[Scribe]

That's a perspective.

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

Primaris are an attempt at

1) rescaling marines to be bigger than guardsmen (achieved)

2) making everything IP friendly, and unfriendly to 3rd party bitz sellers (achieved)

.

3. Replacement of the best selling line, 'forcing' the majority of players/collectors to rebuild their army if they want to buy anything new.

Couldn't agree more, that's their real number one reason. How else would they get all the marine players (a large percentage of the players) to shell out more money if not entirely re collect an army? (Achieved)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I love me some Primaris.

[Snazzy]

GW isn't going anywhere. They'll eventually get round to eldar, and new models will be in scale with the newer Eldar models.

 

Primaris are an attempt at

1) rescaling marines to be bigger than guardsmen (achieved)

2) making everything IP friendly, and unfriendly to 3rd party bitz sellers (achieved)

 

 

Maybe in the short term.  Plenty of Primaris scale bits are being sold by 3rd party under different names like Alpha Scale, or Prime Scale.

 

 

I think they should focus on getting finecast out of the Eldar range first. Vehicles are fine.

 

Agreed.  Vehicles usually have an extremely long shelf life.

[Fajita Fan]

I love me some Primaris.

If I didn't already have armies I'd like them more but some of the models are scaled nicely.  It'll be nice to play them alongside my Guard models so they look more imposing and my Guard look more human, that's for sure.  I do wish Primaris formed their own successor chapters rather than being rolled into existing chapters to replace our normal marines.

 

Where you do guys stand on alternating activation style games?  Would 40k benefit from adding that next edition?  

[Rik Lightstar]

 

 

I love me some Primaris.

If I didn't already have armies I'd like them more but some of the models are scaled nicely. It'll be nice to play them alongside my Guard models so they look more imposing and my Guard look more human, that's for sure. I do wish Primaris formed their own successor chapters rather than being rolled into existing chapters to replace our normal marines.

 

Where you do guys stand on alternating activation style games? Would 40k benefit from adding that next edition?

Alternating Activations have diminishing returns the more units and models there are on the table as the game state changes after each thing occurs so it will take longer in bigger games.

 

I'd like to try 40k with Alternating Phases however. P1 moves, P2 moves, P1 shoots, P2 shoots, P1 charges, P2 charges. Etc. Add in an "initiative roll" at the start of each turn so there's no guarantee who's going first next turn and I think that could work.

 

The advantage of shooting first is mitigated by your opponent getting to potentially out maneuver you or move completely out of range.

 

Rik

[Fajita Fan]

Given how pile in works in AoS and 40k I kinda think they’re inching towards something like that.

[tychobi]

I would love it if you saved damage for the turn until the end of both player turns with damage tokens and then rolled saves in a "damage phase"at the end of the round. Sorta like armageddon but no need for alt activation. Removes alpha strike feels bads and makes target priority more difficult as you never know whats actually dead while shooting. Tense moments to see what's dies as players roll saves for their damage tokens. Super easy to implement as well, just write a rule introducing the new phase and sell some damage counters.

[brother_b]

I just hope they calm down on the scale creep. I don’t want to be playing with Barbie doll sized marines in 12 edition.

[Robbienw]

I just hope they calm down on the scale creep. I don’t want to be playing with Barbie doll sized marines in 12 edition.

I agree. I like my miniatures to be actually miniature.

[mughi3]

Alternating Activations have diminishing returns the more units and models there are on the table as the game state changes after each thing occurs so it will take longer in bigger games.

 

 

That's not true at all, it depends on the system you are using. i can play an equivalent sized game of DUST comparable to a 2K game of 8th on an a 4X6 table in less time because a lot more happens in the course of a single turn than in 40K .  It also helps that the biggest time drain of 8th- re-roll bubbles and stratagems are not there to get in the way.