Long Ranged Marksmen nerfed by PA: Greater Good FAQ

[chapter master 454]

So in case anyone isn't aware of a minor detail in the FAQ for Psychic Awakening: The Greater Good, there was a custom sept trait that has the same wording as Codex: Space Marine Custom Chapter Tactic "Long-Range Marksmen" with only 2 differences that don't affect this matter, the differences being that the Tau Custom Sept Trait "Hybridised Weaponry" only affects Assault and Grenade type weapons (not all weapons) and adds 4" instead of 3".

 

The matter being that this affects combi-weapons of Marines or any other weapon that has multiple profiles with varying ranges.

For clarity, here is the Question being answered in the FAQ

 

 

Q: How does the Hybridised Weaponry tenet apply to pulse blasters? Does it add 4" to the maximum range of the weapon (so increasing long range to 19"), or does it add 4" to all the profiles (close, medium and long range)? A: It adds 4" to the maximum range of the weapon (increasing long range to 19").

 

Now I can contest that the answer doesn't answer anything as "maximum range" is a terrible definition as that can refer to any range a weapon has within it's profile(s). However despite two e-mails and constantly getting the same person on the facebook page trying to say it is crystal clear, which it isn't, and that somehow Combi-Weapons and Pulse Blasters aren't the same (despite both are weapons with multiple Profiles).

 

This is where I bring the crux of the point I bring, this ruling sets a precedent that any range increasing ability will only apply to the longest range profile of any weapon. This means for weapons like Combi-Grav, Combi-Melta and Combi-Flamer these weapons would only increase the range of their Boltgun Profiles (as that is their maximum range as per how it appears to be defined), however it creates a question relating to how this is handled with Combi-Plasma (both having 24" range).

I will also point out that there is also another hit to another rule set within Tau, relating to Bork'An and Stormsurge Pulse Blastcannon. Due to wording, this means on the long range profile would increase despite the fact that when previewed on the warhammer community site (yes, a long time ago) they alluded to how this would enhance your ability to use the other profiles (though I do not stand on this, the community site is known for inaccuracy but I will point out it was never edited, even to this day).

 

I have e-mailed the rules team multiple times now and will continue to do so until this matter is addressed correctly. It is niche and not exactly tournament breaking but does need pointed out as one can easily argue that RAI and RAW, the abilities SHOULD affect all profiles within a wargears datasheet, not just a specific one.

[Panzer]

The difference is that a combi-weapon is in fact two separate weapons slapped together which can also be shot at the same time, while the Pulse Blaster is a single weapon with a varying profile depending on range.

Apples and Oranges.

If GW wants to rule those things differently then that's how it is.

[Gederas]

The difference is that a combi-weapon is in fact two separate weapons slapped together which can also be shot at the same time, while the Pulse Blaster is a single weapon with a varying profile depending on range.

Apples and Oranges.

If GW wants to rule those things differently then that's how it is.

This.

 

An FAQ in one place does not apply to everything similarly.

[chapter master 454]

However it isn't really. In lore yes, but mechanic wise they aren't.

 

It doesn't change you are firing a combi-weapon at the time. You just use one of the two profiles it has, which are just named after the weapon it emulates. To me, this has always been a bugbear with some rules because there isn't evenness between the rules as appropriate and just mutilates the usefulness of a trait further. Again, if you can within the rules show me how they are different properly then it wouldn't be an issue but they both use the same wording regarding how to fire it, the only difference is the combi-weapon offers the option to fire "all" of its profiles at once.

 

My argument stands, you aren't firing a Boltgun or Meltagun when you use one or the other on a Combi-Melta, you are firing a Combi-Melta. This is why they clarify that benefits for Bolt weaponry only applies to the boltgun part of the combi-weapons and the same for the other component piece of a combi-weapon because other wise both components are technically both things (because it is a Melta weapon and Bolt weapon at the same time technically).

 

Again, not the first time I have been witness to the most asinine ruling ever created, Card Games are rife with them. However doesn't stop me pointing out that by that ruling setting a precedent without a FAQ, RAW I can argue this fact with the only thing people seem to keep spouting back is "but they are two different guns" which they aren't, they are one gun with two profiles. If they were two different guns, I will present an example by the fact of the Master-Crafted Relic from the supplements with another FAQ

 

 

 

Q. If I select a weapon with more than one profile for the Mastercrafted Weapon Special Issue Wargear (e.g. a plasma pistol), does the increased Damage characteristic apply to all profiles of that weapon, or must I select which profile of that weapon is improved? A: Add 1 to the Damage characteristic of all profiles of that weapon. Note that weapons with similar names but listed separately in the weapons table, such as boltstorm gauntlet (melee) and boltstorm gauntlet (shooting), are considered separate weapons, rather than the same weapon with different profiles.

 

Notice how that master-crafted applies to both profiles of a combi-weapon but not the boltstorm gauntlet, despite the fact that the boltstorm gauntlet IS the same weapon. So if that is the case, I now ask for a full rule based refute to my argument and thus point to that fact that IF the combi-weapons were two different weapons then they wouldn't benefit from Master-Craft as they do.

[MegaVolt87]

However it isn't really. In lore yes, but mechanic wise they aren't.

 

It doesn't change you are firing a combi-weapon at the time. You just use one of the two profiles it has, which are just named after the weapon it emulates. To me, this has always been a bugbear with some rules because there isn't evenness between the rules as appropriate and just mutilates the usefulness of a trait further. Again, if you can within the rules show me how they are different properly then it wouldn't be an issue but they both use the same wording regarding how to fire it, the only difference is the combi-weapon offers the option to fire "all" of its profiles at once.

 

My argument stands, you aren't firing a Boltgun or Meltagun when you use one or the other on a Combi-Melta, you are firing a Combi-Melta. This is why they clarify that benefits for Bolt weaponry only applies to the boltgun part of the combi-weapons and the same for the other component piece of a combi-weapon because other wise both components are technically both things (because it is a Melta weapon and Bolt weapon at the same time technically).

 

Again, not the first time I have been witness to the most asinine ruling ever created, Card Games are rife with them. However doesn't stop me pointing out that by that ruling setting a precedent without a FAQ, RAW I can argue this fact with the only thing people seem to keep spouting back is "but they are two different guns" which they aren't, they are one gun with two profiles. If they were two different guns, I will present an example by the fact of the Master-Crafted Relic from the supplements with another FAQ

 

 

Q. If I select a weapon with more than one profile for the Mastercrafted Weapon Special Issue Wargear (e.g. a plasma pistol), does the increased Damage characteristic apply to all profiles of that weapon, or must I select which profile of that weapon is improved? A: Add 1 to the Damage characteristic of all profiles of that weapon. Note that weapons with similar names but listed separately in the weapons table, such as boltstorm gauntlet (melee) and boltstorm gauntlet (shooting), are considered separate weapons, rather than the same weapon with different profiles.

 

Notice how that master-crafted applies to both profiles of a combi-weapon but not the boltstorm gauntlet, despite the fact that the boltstorm gauntlet IS the same weapon. So if that is the case, I now ask for a full rule based refute to my argument and thus point to that fact that IF the combi-weapons were two different weapons then they wouldn't benefit from Master-Craft as they do.

I kinda get you, so if it was- combi melta (bolter), combi melta (melta), its two diffrent guns profiles even if its the same gun. I think its a classic case of rules for thee, not for me, instead of by accident. I could be wrong, but were the OG combi profiles like I mentioned just then ?