Character choices in 9th?

[Brom MKIV]

The problem is more about the troops section IMO. I don't see many lists sticking to 1 detachment regardless so if troops are better then the battalion comes back as a more attractive csm option and increases hq from 4 to 5. The other option is taking another legion to access cult troops which is what I do anyway but I realize not everyone wants to do that.

 

If gw does one thing it different I think it should be to reduce the reliance of certain units on specific legion traits and strats. Loyalists have solid units that then get better depending on which chapter is taken. I would like this same approach. If not through legions then through marks. But I shouldn't have to take IW as the only freaking legion able to mitigate my oblits randomness while Erads are baseline good in any chapter.. just for example. Or another- assault intercessors as troops vs zerk troops only in WE.

 

Anyway on track again..

I could see MOEs becoming elites maybe but thats probably the main one that would make list building better. I couldnt see warpsmiths or MOPs being a better deal outside of hq unless were just talking about how to squeeze everything into 1 detachment.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Well, it all comes back to our Troops being bad because we haven't gotten our traits redone or anything equivalent to doctrines yet. Every discussion of anything to do with CSM will always come back to that.

[nanosquid]

 

One way to alleviate the crunch in HQ choices is to move/give us some Elites character options. Apothecary, Ancient, i think the new Judiciar are Elites; move the MoE, MoP, maybe Exalted Champ to Elites and we'd have more room to play with character combos.

I am torn, because the Elites slot is filled with things I’d like to take as well, and we largely lack the ability to take “squadrons” of helbrutes, contemptors, etc..

Battalions have 6 slots for elites compared to 3 of the other specialists. That counts a lot, and I can vouch for it being helpful as a DG player. All those little support dudes are great value-adds now.

[Doom Herald]

I think the tough pill we have to swallow is that 8th edition spoiled us for characters with the 8th version of Supreme command. No other edition (atleast that I played) had something like that. For me the main HQ contenders are Lords, DPs, Sorcerers, Apostles, and Discos and maybe in certain armies an Exalted Champion or MoP. MoE is a great model but the lack of auras makes him lack synergy and the lack of invulnerable save and jump or terminator options severely limits his capabilities as a dedicated melee unit. I really think the MoE needs a minor tweeking. The Warpsmith I think might be better as an Elite option. He does good stuff, if your army is compatible. Exalted and MoP I could see there too since they are niche characters, but it wouldn't be as definite.

 

All CSM armies can benefit from hit re-rolls, psychic powers, and prayers. All armies can make use of the horrendous beat stick that is the Lord Discordant, though I wonder if it would be that out of place to make him a Heavy Support. Everything else is niche. Exalted with Berzerkers, MoP with Daemon marines, Warpsmith with Daemon Engines. Though I still think he needs a rework, I would be more likely to take the MoE as an Elite than an HQ; he's not really an HQ type in the fluff anyway. He's not a commander, he's not a lieutenant, he's the guy you send when you want a person dead which seems more like an Elite to me.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Doom Herald

[Brom MKIV]

Good post DH. The key HQs are pretty much set.. Lords, DPs, discos, sorcs/MOPs. Apostles could be there too arguably as they have their place in more limited lists same as MOPs. I've used warpsmiths often myself and I love my model, but only as mandatory includes. As an elite I think they would lose too much value.

 

If any choices moved to elite they should be the MOE and exalted champs. These are most fitting when accompanying a unit such as mechanized berzerkers for example.

[Snazzy]

Well, it all comes back to our Troops being bad because we haven't gotten our traits redone or anything equivalent to doctrines yet. Every discussion of anything to do with CSM will always come back to that.

 

I honest to god wouldn't mind being so deficient in comparison to Loyalists if GW could recognize that the difference in power between Tacticals and CSMs is worth more than 1 point.  Even the idea that with a Mark and Icon makes them equal is absurd.