The problem with Daemon Primarchs

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I mean, Daemon Primarchs WERE top tier tournament competitive for large amounts of 8th. There was awhile that Chaos's most competitive lists were silly things like dual primarchs and brimstone horror spam.

 

Personally, i'd like it if the Daemon Primarchs got a rule like Ghaz's so they have a bit more staying power. They'd need other adjustments to compensate for it though. And I think it'd also be nice if taking them effected your army in ways that lasted even after they were taken off the board. Make them a bit weaker, but benefit the army more or something.

[Scribe]

I've cleaned up a string of replies that were going off on a tangent. There was some valid discussion hidden in them, but that needs to be addressed in an on topic manner.

My response was on topic. :D

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

But look at your sig man.

 

What if they brought back Pert ?

Edited July 29, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[ThePenitentOne]

I like Daemon Primarchs, but I'm playing a different game than most people; first, my Cult has to recruit enough civilians to form a rock solid base, then they need to learn how to summon daemons by stealing a relic, then the have to unlock the secret of the Hellforge. If they can do all of that, it will be enough to draw the Emperor's Children, but Fulgrim will only join the party if he can subvert and twist the holy relics of the Triumph of Saint Katherine.

 

So yeah, for tournament players, a primarch is coin toss; for me it's one possible end point for Crusade battle featuring a 3k army that was grown from a five man kill team over a period of three years or more.

 

GW doesn't make Daemon Primarchs for you; they make them for me. Don't like 'em? Don't use 'em.

 

There is no problem with Daemon Primarchs.

 

(Sorry to sound snarky; it's a consequence of trying harder to be brief and to the point- no hostile intent)

[Scribe]

But look at your sig man.

 

What if they brought back Pert ?

 

Seems about right to me.

 

I dont see much of a need for any D.Primarchs beyond the big 4. They have application across the cults, daemons, and csm.

[Cheex]

GW doesn't make Daemon Primarchs for you; they make them for me. Don't like 'em? Don't use 'em.

 

There is no problem with Daemon Primarchs.

 

Problem is that even if they're designed for you, they still have a habit of dying too easily. All well and good that you and I might play in a casual or narrative meta, but if you put months into building up your Crusade force to include a Daemon Primarch and then hours assembling and painting it, it's not a good feeling to lose it early on in the battle.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a Ghaz-style wound cap for Daemon Primarchs, even if it's just against shooting or something. I'm not a huge fan of "hard" wound caps like this, though, and would prefer something that simply makes it harder to kill them in one go rather than just being impossible, but as a simple solution it would probably work.

[Goreshed]

Primarchs will never be completely fleshed out in their conversion from the realm of lore to the realm of the table top. Let's not also forget that someone could in theory take down a warlord titan with a bunch of lasguns which we all know is against the lore of it all (unless of course you count the fact that someone could shoot the princeps with a laspistol and really put a damper on that parade.... but that's besides the point). So really, most of the Primarch rules are on par with this and 8th edition.

 

Do I like to see a Primarch taken down by a grot/lasgun/anything? No, not really. It would be on par with my above example as well. But this game was never supposed to be something that was entirely realistic to the upteenth degree.

 

Are there things that could be done better? Sure, there is always room for improvement and having something that mitigates some of that because of what they are would be nice. I wouldn't even mind if there was a minimum points needed to field a Daemon Primarch (or any flavor or Primarch for that matter) to really enforce the fact of who and what they are. But with the lore it had really stagnated and this was GW's way of moving it forward. As a player who remembers the days of the Horus Heresy literally being only a few sentences written out at times, the fact that we not only have a 50+ book series giving us all these characters, let alone all of the Primarchs, to see them realized on the tabletop is the absolute best. It gives everyone a shot at painting a character that was, up until 12ish years ago, something of myth and wonder.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think Guilliman was well conceived except rerolling all failed to wound. Morty and Magnus are both so powerful that maybe they both just need to be reworked a bit.

[Irate Khornate]

I wouldn't mind if they got raised to 500 points if they gave the Daemon Primarchs a 2+, 3++, chapter master aura, and a few other flavorful special rules.

[Special Officer Doofy]

They should at least give the chapter master aura, being primarchs and all. Morty should be T8 considering he should be tougher than Magnus (and he's almost 500pts). 2+ for the barbarous plate. 3++ would be too much.

[Gederas]

They should at least give the chapter master aura, being primarchs and all. Morty should be T8 considering he should be tougher than Magnus (and he's almost 500pts). 2+ for the barbarous plate. 3++ would be too much.

T8 18W with a 2+/4++/5++ would be annoyingly hard to remove.

 

Which is perfect for him

 

I also think the Primarchs should have an It Will Not Die-type ability where at the start of the turn they heal a set number of wounds. They have that in 30k iirc

Edited August 4, 2020 by Gederas

[Irate Khornate]

They should at least give the chapter master aura, being primarchs and all. Morty should be T8 considering he should be tougher than Magnus (and he's almost 500pts). 2+ for the barbarous plate. 3++ would be too much.

Is it really too much when he dies with a 4++ on turn 1 anyway?

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

They should at least give the chapter master aura, being primarchs and all. Morty should be T8 considering he should be tougher than Magnus (and he's almost 500pts). 2+ for the barbarous plate. 3++ would be too much.

Is it really too much when he dies with a 4++ on turn 1 anyway?

I think it would be. He's a monster if he makes contact. I don't want him to be an auto include, I also don't want him to be a crappy first turn bullet sponge. Somewhere in the middle is ideal haha.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

What about if we could use summoning to regenerate wounds?

 

I mean they ARE part Daemon these days.

[Dagoth Ur]

Just because some might buy it isn’t what I’d consider a good reason to make it .

Mate, making primarch minis is about as close as GW can come to legally printing fat wads of cash. That's all the reason they need.

 

Edit: I would also like to add that I am in full support of it.

Edited August 7, 2020 by The Observer

[Scribe]

 

Just because some might buy it isn’t what I’d consider a good reason to make it .

Mate, making primarch minis is about as close as GW can come to legally printing fat wads of cash. That's all the reason they need.

 

 

Correct response, close up shop.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Not everybody wants more Primarchs but if they release another one it’ll be a loyalist.

[Scribe]

Not everybody wants anything though, that's not the point.

 

Do Primarchs sell? I bet if they do, we see more.

 

The other 2 Chaos ones at a minimum.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Not everybody wants more Primarchs but if they release another one it’ll be a loyalist.

 

I would bet money this is incorrect: Fulgrim and Angron are 100% going to happen. 

 

Although I think that was a question that was also raised during a Twitch stream, that Daemon primarchs are a big deal model/army wise, but they aren't "universe changing" events as they have been active in the past fluff-wise anywho. 

 

However, a "loyalist" coming back is a Universe-altering event that shakes the imperium, to I would wager we will see a third Daemon Primarch long before we see a second Loyalist primarch. 

[Scribe]

Next metaplot will almost certainly have 1 of the 2 Daemon Primarchs.

 

Loyalist ones as you say should be Edition level events.