WH40K App Updated

[Cryptix]

Yes, because an army builder that isn't even functional yet means you're free from basic coding principles such as having distinctive variable names. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

How many here actually watched the video and understand German ? Arkanist what code (e.g., C++, Visual Basic) are they using?

 

The code in the video looks like Java, the usual language for native apps on android. I would imagine the iOS app is written in objective C, though it could be using Swift. I'm no expert, pretty much all I write these days is a few dozen lines of powershell or python scripts (I am a manager now, after all!) but I have done a fair bit of work in C++, java and a lot of javascript/coffeescript over the years, so even I can spot obvious anti-patterns in the code samples such as the variable naming, sequential ifs, or what looks like a God Object that's 10,000 lines of code.

 

edit: Hmm, I've just spotted a couple of imports that looks like it might actually be Kotlin, a superset language based on Java. I'm not familiar with Kotlin (and my Java experience is a over a decade old), but I understand it is possible to cross-compile Kotlin to use it in objective-C with a bit of scaffolding - that may be how they're doing the iOS app.

 

 

I don’t think looking at one bit of code and making a blanket statement about the app is valid.

[Arkhanist]

There's plenty of the code in the video, my assessment isn't based upon a single snippet.

 

I'm curious - do you think the code design in the app looks good or not? It's not clear based upon your previous reference to spaghetti code.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Arkhanist

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What else did you find and what are the problems ?

[Arkhanist]

To be honest, I'm fairly sure we're already veering into crozius territory at this point; a detailed discussion of my view of the code is pretty offtopic for a news thread. Happy to take it to PM later, though it'll take a while to put together some screenshots.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Arkhanist

[Chaplain Lucifer]

To be honest, I'm fairly sure we're already veering into crozius territory at this point; a detailed discussion of my view of the code is pretty offtopic for a news thread. Happy to take it to PM later, though it'll take a while to put together some screenshots.

Glad someone heard the whine of the Crozius activating. This will be the last warning. Any more off topic and the thread goes into the fridge for a while.

[Spinsanity]

I now ended up with the same issue many others encountered on the iOS app; I managed to login and then subscribed, but when I next tried the next day I couldn’t get back in; restoring my purchases doesn’t help and I can’t get the subscribe page to load at all (just tried to see what it would do)

[Mr4Minutes]

They updated the app on iOS this morning. That update fixed my issues. All I had to do was restore purchase. Edited July 31, 2020 by Mr4Minutes

[chapter master 454]

Steering only slightly from code, I wonder what pipeline, brief and resources this entire app got because visually it seems to be ok, definitely got a lot of other free apps beat who are effectively using just basic word document formatting to create tables but then fails in various other categories.

 

First the lack of proper sectioning and cross-referencing of units. If marines were a niche faction it might be excusable as to how such a thing got missed but it is flagship and the other chapters of note (Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Blood Angels) are extremely high visibility factions that you would hard pressed to miss since all 3 also have fairly significant lore and references (while lore doesn't dictate rules, it can and often does dictate a players choice of army) so how units like the new Primaris stuff which is then doubly high visibility in this case got messed up is quite baffling.

 

Surely part of the process would be prototyping a layout for the unit lists and codices. That is just basic design principles 101, you don't go in hard off the cuff for such a thing. The idea of Alphabetical ordering is good but when you group things together with the word "codex" at the front, it creates problems. Why not have various sub-folders, start out with Main Folders, such as Imperium, Chaos and Xenos (possibly add in "Board Games" in reference for Blackstone Fortress and still leave it open for more products). From there, within Imperium you can pick Adeptus Astartes (or call it just "Space Marines" if you don't want to use the faction name within the lore) which then itself is a folder for other files. This would be where denoting what is a codex and what is a folder is important, with at this point anything that is a Codex does get the Pre-fix "Codex" followed by the faction name and heck, give it a cool background design that is a snippet of the codex cover, really make it stand out. Thus you can have within this one folder the Codex for "Space Marines", "Space Wolves", "Dark Angels" and "Blood Angels" all neatly laid out. At the bottom you have another folder called "Supplements" which within would naturally contain the supplements for these factions. Heck you can even have the FAQs put into the appropriate folders with the Further Pre-Fix "FAQ&E" (for "Frequently Asked Questions & Errata").

 

That is just me throwing something out against the wall there as someone having done Digital Media as my degree (with honours), seems fairly base level stuff though to skip here. That is further to the point regarding simple things. If you are implementing a subscription system, you must be able to both opt-in and opt-out without any difficulty. Like building a house where the only exit is a ladder through the second floor window is what happened here, that shouldn't need to be fixed by FEEDBACK.

 

We will see how it progresses and it again does come from the ground up really. The visual elements here are barely there and seem to be the only thing they cared about (and even then with how some are missing, even that is questionable).

I did think about the free month but personally, it isn't worth it. No new codex within that time span really unless space marines and necrons drop instantly on october the first (or was the offer only for August, can't remember) so thus the app isn't even useful since it doesn't give any good information, is old stuff and doesn't come with the actually asked for feature.

Some things get taken out of the oven too early, this app wasn't even put in an oven to begin with!

[Noserenda]

Didnt they recruit the person who made that amazing photo army builder in an astoundingly short amount of time to do this though? I mean if they just used their app and popped some more rules and branding this could have been great.

[Marshal Rohr]

I am still stuck in the subscribe loop, but if I swipe I can get to the datasheets.

[Lemondish]

I can’t follow how this was allowed to happen. If I’m top of a large widget company that has demand for a digital product, that can have a proven PAY model going forward, why I wouldn’t outsource to a dedicated coding firm, or pay top now dollar to make a product that can print me money long term.

 

The fact there are so many people versed in coding on here (and Blow Fly) who are catching these seeming egregious errors just doesn’t make sense to me. Why would GW chuck two or three people at this thing and have this gigantic mess? Something seems off.

I've worked with many partners in a very similar situation as GW is here. The quality of partners for these types of things is downright abysmal.

[Lexington]

Update seems to work for me - I can access the full app again.

 

Joy.

[lordhellblade]

I still haven’t gotten my cussing confirmation email for my account so.....

 

I do hope GW listens more to the feedback people have provided. The subscription price Is quite high and needs to be worth the money for people to commit to it,

Edited August 1, 2020 by lordhellblade

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don’t need to buy the PA F&F supplement now... paid for itself.

[ST.Lazarus]

It's been extremely liberating to be able to search and look up stratagems in the app for me thats worth the price alone.

[SkimaskMohawk]

You get it back until the codexes get pulled, or you simply rack up the subscription for long enough.

 

It's really not quite as cut and dried as you save more money than you would have spent

[AenarIT]

One thing I do not understand is what value the app actually offers right now.

 

Current books in digital form? I already own the 8th ed books I care about, it's not like I'm ever going to read the fluff on the Drukhari codex for example... Certainly not between now and the time when the new one will come out (and the 8th ed one will be removed from the app).
When I play I already know most of the rules of the armies I'm facing and I can always ask my opponent for clarifications.

When I am at home I can find all the info I could ever need on any army (1d4chan, reddit, forums, whpedia, battlescribe, ...). 
It doesn't even offer a list builder. And when it will offer it, it's going to be mobile only but list building is something I do exclusively on my pc.

I don't know, I had big hopes for digital rules support by GW but it seems we're months away, if not years, from a decent product. 

Edited August 2, 2020 by AenarIT

[jaxom]

One thing I do not understand is what value the app actually offers right now.

 

Current books in digital form? I already own the 8th ed books I care about, it's not like I'm ever going to read the fluff on the Drukhari codex for example... Certainly not between now and the time when the new one will come out (and the 8th ed one will be removed from the app).

 

That's the crux, for some it has value, like me who doesn't own a lot of the books and likes to poke around the rules. For others, it may offer nothing.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The people whom don’t value it shouldn’t expect those that do to feel the same. Sure I like the app and am sure it will improve over time. If you don’t like it use something else - easy.

[chapter master 454]

Like I said you get the sub price back in spades Sete... why is that so hard for you to understand ?

 

Likely because your statement becomes invalid by if they release even just one new codex or supplement that invalidates a prior publication such as for you, if they release Psychic Morning Coffee: Faither and Furious-er then you now need to not only subscribe to the app to get the army builder (still missing), but you must BUY the codex separately and then unlock it within the app which requires getting a hard copy to then...unlock it on the app? Why can't we get digital releases like we have currently? Currently however they could be considered to be sabotaging their E-Pub files as I have tried multiple readers for their E-Pub Files with only one working but others reporting different ones working but others not (notably however their recommended Kobo for android is fairly universal in being knackered).

 

You don't get anything back in spades. The app currently is incomplete and the "free" 8th edition rules is practically meaningless considering a majority already have the books so thus is asking us to pay for rules we already have with only a few exceptions (for example you, I am happy you found a use for it, however niche). However your gain was at the END of an edition that may not even be valid unless rules stagnant so much in 9th it would see an even larger outcry than this.

 

Why should I, someone who did actually buy all the Psychic Awakenings for my tablet get railed for it? I am currently on the verge of having products that I cannot use that I paid for. (I have e-mailed the digital team, no response yet btw, that was nearing a week ago). I have paid for those products already along with a LARGE swathe of the codexes and supplements for space marines. Why can't I link my Warhammer Digital to the MyWarhammer app to unlock the codexes I already have? I paid...what 20 bucks per book so I have something like 20 odd books so 400 pounds collectively. I have paid for 100 months of this apps subscription in books and I get no access to any of them.

So technically they are rewarding players who didn't buy in at all, effectively giving the finger to their more active supporters.

 

End of the day the app will ultimately become 4 bucks a month for an army builder as the 8th edition books will slowly fall into the out of date category. If it were 2 bucks a month I may of considered it a reasonable price but sadly the fact it launched the way it does, GW clearly doesn't care properly. While fixing issues after launch and active maintaining of it is a sign of care, the mentality of "fix it after it launches" is anti-consumer with this considered the Final Product, not Alpha or even Beta. If they launched this with a Beta that was super basic, state the first phase is testing authenticating via Warhammer Digital, then update the Beta with a rudimentary army builder. Then after a period of Beta testing, award Beta testers a free 2-3 months of the app on its full release. Charge 2 bucks a month, add in early adopter bonus of a month for those who get a subscription within the first week.

 

No, there was a small announcement of this thing somewhere in 8th, they drop it at the start of 9th with what looks like a 2 week prototype and ask for 4 bucks a month out the gate with no early adopter benefits or anything of real meaning (again, for those using digital you have to compete with your own products such as Warhammer Digital and E-readers along and battlescribe). Oh, all the 8th edition rules...woo...arguable that is the only part that makes it worth 4 bucks for the first month but now? Is it worth 4 bucks? Don't kid yourself or others, you can't defend this costing 4 bucks a month.

[Dusktiger]

=][=  Keep it civil guys,

we're all adults here, and, presumably, all capable of expressing our opinions in a civil, constructive manner, as per board rules. 

Stop hen-pecking at one another just because your opinions on the new app differ. 

If we continue to have to hide these bickering responses, the thread will simply be closed. 

Thank you.  =][=

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Wall of text post again.

 

You are wrong because now I have the rules for the PA F&F supplement which I’ll never have to purchase. How much are they going for ?

[chapter master 454]

Wall of text post again.

 

You are wrong because now I have the rules for the PA F&F supplement which I’ll never have to purchase. How much are they going for ?

 

Care to please point out where others are wrong please? Your response almost feels like you didn't read the responses in full and in return don't return by answering some of our points with your own. You are yet to disprove others and just saying "you are wrong" without evidence of our points makes you seem like you don't have a leg to stand on.

 

Yes, you have the PA: F&F book now, congratulations. You had to wait 7 months to legally use those rules. So you are saying then I guess that everyone should of waited months for this app, not buy ANY of the new books of 8th, literally not play the entire edition and get it all for 4 bucks after it is all done. So were you not willing to pay for Faith and Fury for one reason or another? Was it cost? If it was the cost then how come you can't see the reverse side for those that DID buy those books.

 

Again, I stated you got good value, non-debatable. However can you debate that it is a good deal for the majority of players who already have their respective army book and various supplements? What value would this app for some a hardcore Raven Guard or Iron Hands player who has to buy 3 different books purely for their own army (Codex: Space Marines, Codex Supplement and Psychic Awakening: Faith and Fury). They spent somewhere about what? 60+ notes on those books and can't use them on this new app, digital or not. You telling them that despite being legal owners of those rules, that they MUST spend more money to use. Literally, charging those who already have it to use it on an app. Not even barcodes being used. Heck, not even warhammer Digital being used to let us access those codices.

 

Again, how am I wrong about my points? How are others wrong on their points, I am directly challenging you here Black Blow Fly to give me a proper response here in a public forum for all to see. Refute what others have said, do not just say they are wrong.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What I’m saying is I didn’t have to buy the supplement so it’ saved me that amount of money.