First impression on Guard in 9.Ed

[domsto]

So i played my first few Games with Guard and i lost every single one brutaly.

 

For me Guard seems way weaker in this Edition as it was in 8.Ed

 

Problems i ran into:

 

Actually holding the Objectiv

 

Yes we can easy hop on it(move,move,move order) but surviving on it the whole enemy Turn?

My Guardsmen got shoot of the Objectiv everytime before i could score anything.

 

Secondarys

 

For me Guard looses so many Points on it because there are so many that grants Points for killing. And Guard Units are easy to kill.

 

Vehicals

 

Our Vehicals got so much more expansive that it is hard to field enought Anti Tank guns. I got outguned almost everytime.

 

Command Points

 

Our biggest advantage turned into our biggest weakness.

I startet the Game usual with only 8CP as it is hard to put everything into one Detachment.

 

Blast

 

It is useless

Many Guns which are Blast are antitank Guns. And the one Gun that would profit the most of it the Wyvern Quad Mortar doens't work with the Blast Rule. As it says Attacks not dice roll.

So we pay premium for a special Rule that does nothing or even hinder us as you can't shoot with blast in CC

 

That's my first Impressions on Guard.

What are yours?

How do you deal with the Problems i ran into?

[Captain Incompetence]

I haven't been able to play with my guard yet in 9th edition due to covid lockdown, so all of my opinions are speculation on my part.

I can definitely see lone guardsmen squads having severe issues holding an objective, but this has always been the case. To me, it seems like we're forced to make one of two choices. Either we pile an overwhelming amount of bodies on objectives, or we run heavily mechanized lists where troops are supported with transports and perhaps other (fast attack) vehicles to help hold objectives. Both choices do leave us open to easy to score secondary objectives for our opponents though, and as you have said it seems like a major weakness to the Guard right now.

I personally think that Bullgryns will be an absolutely vital unit for us going forward as they're both capable of slapping enemies off objectives, but also holding on to it due to their innate tankiness. I was also considering getting a few more Hellhounds in my list as they can be absolute bullies to enemy infantry now, making it easier to get contest those objectives in the middle of the board.

[duz_]

Interesting insights

 

What opponents have you faced?

 

I haven't rolled any dice in 9th yet and I'm still waiting on my rules having made the mistake of ordering non 9th Ed products with my BRB so still waiting on GW to ship them to the store I bought it from and then then to me :down:

[Akrim]

Personally i feel 9th has been good to us in my games so far. Ive been going combined arms with some mechanized squads, some foot infantry more in a ranged support role (ACs or Mortars) primarily for blocking for my tanks/arty.

[librisrouge]

A lot of this matches the expectations I've heard so far. Guard are going to suffer, in some ways, with easily killed infantry and expensive vehicles that'll limit our approaches in those regards. I think mechanized forces will probably be stronger this edition because you can get those infantry where they need to go faster (debatable with orders) but then use the transport to protect them and make them tougher. This edition seems like it will really favor tougher, mid-ranged units and IG isn't very known for that, so we will have to use firepower and transports as stop gaps.

[domsto]

What opponents have you faced?

 

 

I faced Marines,Death Guard and Sisters

 

Marines: yes marines i don't think i have to say more;)

Death Guard: really shine on the Objectiv game. If they sit on a objectiv it is hard to remove them. Combined with the less Guns Guard has now it becomes pretty hard to kill a Unit of 10 Plague Marines or Terminators.

Sisters: a mix of Marines and Death Guard.

Outgunned me and are more durable

[domsto]

Personally i feel 9th has been good to us in my games so far. Ive been going combined arms with some mechanized squads, some foot infantry more in a ranged support role (ACs or Mortars) primarily for blocking for my tanks/arty.

I actually like the new Core Rules of 9.Ed, what makes it hard for me enjoy are the Points. I can't see the Balance when i pay the same price as Marines for many Guns. HB got 88% more expansiv on Tanks now:/

 

I also think that Mech Guard will be the way now. But Transport are still to expansiv in my Opinion

[Gloomfoe]

I played two games against guard with my orks...guard lost both. Guard vehicles are still playing 8th edition. The only way to bypass this is playing punishers(they made the always underperforming exterminator AC turret way expensive) and Hellhounds. Get rid of your sponsons, you don't want to pay the HB tax. The fact that I hear marine players whine about their cost makes me laugh as guard has to pay the same amount but hits on 4's...

Guardsmen are grotsmen to every army in the game and the fact that there are secondaries that are easy to score against us(attrition) makes them even juicier targets.

[Level9red]

I played a 1k game against Necrons yesterday and lost. I found I didn't have enough units to hold & score objectives and shoot at the enemy which was going to shoot my objective holders. I only had 3 infantry squads, which probably wasn't the best idea, and they were gone by turn 2. The vet squads survived longer. I took Eisenhorn which my opponent and I decided was a mistake as his pyschic abilities didn't come into play much, also no invulnerable save which meant he was sycthed down before getting a chance to fight...

 

I went plasma heavy with vet and command squads and armoured sentinels, but the quantum shielding still went off a lot, there was a triarch stalker that just wouldn't die!

 

On the flip side my opponent had played marines a few days before and got tabled by turn 4 I think, so the xeno doesn't get it all their own way.

[domsto]

After some theory crafting and more lost Games i came up with the Idea of a Infantry Only List. As our Vehicals have not gained much, but got a huge price hike, i am actually of the Oppinion that Vehicals are no longer worth it.

Seeing that in the newest FAQ that Blast works as intended, so profils like 3d3,4d6,... don't profit from Blast in the slightest and the Fact that our Vehical can still be tagged or can't free themselves(hitting on 5+, or can't shoot at all thanks to Blast) makes it hard for me to justify the huge Point investment now.

[HallofStovokor]

After some theory crafting and more lost Games i came up with the Idea of a Infantry Only List. As our Vehicals have not gained much, but got a huge price hike, i am actually of the Oppinion that Vehicals are no longer worth it.

Seeing that in the newest FAQ that Blast works as intended, so profils like 3d3,4d6,... don't profit from Blast in the slightest and the Fact that our Vehical can still be tagged or can't free themselves(hitting on 5+, or can't shoot at all thanks to Blast) makes it hard for me to justify the huge Point investment now.

Well, I don't think that vehicles are worthless, but they may be less vital than in 8th. Interestingly, I too thought about going foot guard. I think that foot guard can be a hard counter to the emerging anti-tank meta.

[Dangerman]

A guard + imperial fists list came 6th in the first Australian GT in 9th ed (clicking on the eye icon opens the lists). There were a couple of other Guard lists in this tourney. Two in the top 20 (6th & 12th) isn't that bad considering there was a good assortment of Marines, Xenos and Chaos. The list that came 12th was pure guard.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Dangerman

[sairence]

A guard + imperial fists list came 6th in the first Australian GT in 9th ed (clicking on the eye icon opens the lists). There were a couple of other Guard lists in this tourney. Two in the top 20 (6th & 12th) isn't that bad considering there was a good assortment of Marines, Xenos and Chaos. The list that came 12th was pure guard.

That is such a janky list in 6th. :D

[domsto]

A guard + imperial fists list came 6th in the first Australian GT in 9th ed (clicking on the eye icon opens the lists). There were a couple of other Guard lists in this tourney. Two in the top 20 (6th & 12th) isn't that bad considering there was a good assortment of Marines, Xenos and Chaos. The list that came 12th was pure guard.

Interesting results:)

12th place for Solo Guard isn't to bad.

The IF+Guard liste seems like the Classic Deathstar+Guard filler list.

Maybe the time has come where Guard has to soup;P

[Phubar]

Where is the Blast rule FAQ?

[librisrouge]

I still roll my Armageddon Steel Legion list with everything mounted, treaded, or a sentinel. Or DS’ing storm troopers.

 

It’s not very competitive but it gets to objectives!

Emphasis added. I think that is what will make guard competitive. I think IG will be about doing two things simultaneously, getting mechanized units on objectives and blasting the enemy's best objective takers.

[Warhead01]

After some theory crafting and more lost Games i came up with the Idea of a Infantry Only List. As our Vehicals have not gained much, but got a huge price hike, i am actually of the Oppinion that Vehicals are no longer worth it.

Seeing that in the newest FAQ that Blast works as intended, so profils like 3d3,4d6,... don't profit from Blast in the slightest and the Fact that our Vehical can still be tagged or can't free themselves(hitting on 5+, or can't shoot at all thanks to Blast) makes it hard for me to justify the huge Point investment now.

My friend is currently trying to push an Infantry army not sure how he's doing with it yet. He had previously come to the conclusion that he didn't need more than 2 of a kind for any of his tanks. He felt 3 or more was a poor use of his points.

When you are mentioning blast do you mean they are not blast weapons or only work on the top end? 

Frankly I'll take the standard 4 minimum on 3D what ever but expect I'd statistically just roll better. But free max numbers, I won't turn that down on turns one and two, three if I am lucky. 

But then I am in no way a competitive player, haven't even attempted to be after 4th or 5th edition. 

[sairence]

Chimeras have actually been working well for me. The thing to remember is that, after you advanced them on an objective, popped smoke and forced your opponent to destroy, he has now released a squad of obsec Guardsmen onto the same objective. That's a pretty good deal.

 

My current approach is to push scout sentinels onto mid-objective pre-turn 1, follow with Chimeras in turn 2 and later turns swarm them with the embarked infantry.

[domsto]

Where is the Blast rule FAQ?

 

In the FAQ for the Core Rulebook, right at the beginning under Designer's Note

Can't post a picture here for some reason

[Phubar]

Thank you! I skipped all the fiest part as i thougth it was only the intro, not expecting actuals updates in it :)