How is the Cult doing on the tabletop in 9th?

[Rogue]

I've been fortunate enough to play a number of games of 9th edition over the past week or so - mostly combat patrol (against AdMech and Ultramarines), but also one full strike force game (against Grey Knights) at 2000 points. I figured this would be a good place to think about what I've learned so far, and for us as Cults players in general to share practical experience as we pick it up.

 

Twisted Helix

Having payed as the Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor in 8th, I'm now giving Twisted Helix a go in 9th, and I'm enjoying it so far. The strength perk has been particularly effective on my acolytes, letting them wound most things (especially marines) on a 3. Coupled with the Primus' ability to drop a +1 to wound on a choice target, I've been able to put together some nasty combinations.

• Against the Grey Knights, the combination of +1 strength on acolytes, the +1 to wound from the Primus, and his +1 to hit aura (pushed out to 9" with Brood Coven and Alien Majesty) meant that when I charged them into his 10-paladin squad, my acolytes were hitting on 2s, wounding on 2s and rending on 5s. And this all as inate abilities - no need for stratagems or psychic support (in fact, I continually failed to cast Might from Beyond throughout that game).

Advance and Charge

Talking of acolytes, the Genetic Lineage stratagem from Psychic Awakening is fantastic. Coupled with the Helix +2 to advance, I can move my acolytes 6", advance a further 3-8", then charge on top. That's anywhere from 9" to 14" of movement, plus a charge, for 1CP. Against the Knights again, I was able to move my acolytes up but still keep them behind LoS blocking terrain - previously, the location of the terrain would have given me a long charge in turn two, but with the Helix advance up my sleeve, I was on the paladins' toes even before making the charge move. Coupled with a successful Mass Hypnosis, my acolyte blob made it into turn two combat without losing a single model.

 

Board Control

The games I've won (against the Grey Knights, and half of the combat patrol games) have pretty much all come down to board control - scoring high on the primary objectives, and frequently choosing objective based secondaries as well. I want to be moving up the board anyway, so over-running the mid-table objectives is already on my path to victory. Again, the acolytes are valuable here - a big troops unit that can move, advance and charge covers a lot of ground and can either steal the objective from elite or other specialist units, or outnumber and/or kill other troops units. 

 

Sweep and Clear (retaining control of objectives even after you've moved away again) has been very useful. I've only encountered it in combat patrol so far, but being able to grab objectives and then move forward anyway really suits the Cult play-style. True, enemy units can drop in behind me and take the objectives back, but by then I'm halfway across the board, over-running other objectives and killing enemy units, and having one or two deep strikers wandering around in my backfield with little to do isn't really a big problem.

 

Combat Patrol

My combat patrol victories have also come when I've had a good combat character leading the force - either the Patriarch or the Abominant - they hit hard anyway, but at this scale, they can be devastating, and they're a significant threat all the time. The Primus was less effective here, as his aura was usually only reaching one or at best two units, and he himself was very vulnerable to counter attacks without a lot of minions to throw themselves in the way. 

 

Small squads are helpful here. In one losing game, I only had three squads (2x10 acolytes and 5 aberrants) and an Iconward - in turn one, I spread out to cover three objectives, killed some ruststalkers, picked up lots of points. And then I was stuck - if i moved any of the units to attack the enemy, I was giving up either primary or secondary points, or both. Big units are killy, but small units are more useful. In a winning game (in which sweep and clear was in play), having a unit of 5 acolytes underground meant that I could jump onto an objective in turn two, taking it from my marine opponent, and it didn't really matter that he could kill them the next turn - they'd taken control of the objective, and now the marines would either have to move back into their deployment zone to regain control of the objective, or press forward, leave the objective, and make the primaries that little bit harder.

 

Leman Russes

I have three of them, and use them a lot. In 8th, with my competitive head on, they often appeared as three tank commanders via a brood brothers supreme command detachment. That's no longer an option, and I'm trying to be fluffier too, so now they roll as regular Russes. Sadly, they really feel the drop to BS 4+ with no re-roll 1s, but they still do work, and provide a very different threat. And now that they're more mobile, I was able to advance them up one flank, take control of objectives, and force the Grey Knights to deploy significant resources to deal with them (resources that weren't then dealing with my infantry assault on the other flank - in this game, my infantry (20 acolytes, 20 genestealers and character support) ate up 10 paladins, 5 terminators, and three characters, whilst the two Russes on the flank tied up three dreadknights, a librarian and a heavy weapons squad. They died, but it bought me so much time.

 

Selective Ambushing

I mentioned earlier that in 8th, i went with Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor. Tooled up with a clamavus and the broodsurge detachment, I was dropping in masses of infantry in turn two, trying to find places to put down several squads and characters all in range of overlapping auras, close enough to charge, and ideally in cover. it rarely worked as well as I wanted it to. Now, with rapid advancing, advance-and-charge acolytes and way more LoS blocking terrain (the obscuring trait is so helpful), it's much easier to throw threats up the table, and hold just a couple of squads underground. In smaller games, having some light infantry in reserve to grab objectives is valuable; in the bigger game, I put two 5-aberrant squads in reserve, dropping them in in turns two and three with Perfect Ambush each time. My opponent was well aware of their threat, and it had knock on effects on his own reserves and movement, which was useful two. In the end, the pick unit came in turn two and killed a wounded grandmaster dreadknight, and the hammer unit came in turn three, fluffed their charge, survived a dreadknight going into them, and then battered it to death. Both squads went down to firepower (Astral Aim is horrible), but killed big targets at key moments, and caused significant distractions from my main attack.  

 

So, if you've got any practical experience of using the Cult in 9th, feel free to share :)

[brother_b]

As a new Cults player, this information is like freshwater from a sweet spring to a parched traveler.

 

On a serious note though, all I have seen is doom and gloom and this looks like really good information. I wanted to use four armed emperor, or twisted helix. I also wanted to use aberrant’s so I think it’s interesting you were doing what I wanted to do.

 

Do you not use the ridge runner? It’s been touted as one of the best options now for anti-tank.

 

How about large squads of Neophytes? I was considering a large unit of 20 for the med board, both to present a juicy target to blast weapons, as well as holding an objective.

 

Finally, some of the characters are so amazing I would want to run more than one. Primarch for example, in your larger games have you used a single detachment, or multiple. How are your CP for the games?

[Rogue]

I know what you mean - I suspect that much of the negativity is coming from the more competitive end of the spectrum, where little things can make a big difference in an army's success rate. But if you're just picking an army for a game, and going with what you have, i think they work. I've won more than I've lost so far, and most of the loses have come from picking deliberately tricky lists for games against new players.

 

And I'm trying to lean into twisted Helix properly - use the warlord trait, use the relic, use the aberrants. I've even had fun with the abominant at combat patrol level - he's blatted Cawl in a single turn, and swatted a land speeder out of the sky too. The elixir of the prime specimen is brilliant on a combat character, especially when teamed up with either of bio-morph adaptation or bio-alchemist. I also have enough aberrants to run two squads, and having both underground is a serious threat. Also also, they're fun.

 

A ridge-runner is on the cards. I have one on sprue, and it'll likely be September's project. I tend to only play with what I have, and i only started building my killteam into a 40k force last year, so I'm still developing options. The ability to move and fire does make them look interesting.

 

Neophytes are great at just being there. I've yet to do anything with them other than hold objectives - autoguns just seem to bounce off everything. One of my expansion plans is to complete a squad of shotguns for the S4, and pair them up with some flamers. Is feeding blast weapons targets a good idea? I feel like two squads of ten would do the same work for objective holding, but be less susceptible to being shot to pieces. I've also found that being able to tuck squads into blind corners, or behind obscuring terrain does wonders for their survivability, and smaller squads are easier to hide.

 

In the 200 point game versus Grey Knights (my only big game so far), I went with a single battalion and just took the brood coven guys - patriarch, primus, magus - and spent a CP on the coven stratagem. Alien Majesty on the primus is worth the CP on its own, and then I threw Focus of Adoration on the magus (which paid off when i was able to heroically intervene some genestealers into the apothecary, kill him, and then consolidate back to where they'd just come from). 11CP sounds like a lot, but I'm looking to use perfect ambush twice, and genetic lineage at least once, so that's 7CP committed already. It's also nice having monstrous bio-horrors up your sleeve, and that's potentially another 3CP. And I definitely spent a couple on re-rolling charges, and interrupted combat at least once. Personally, I try to save CPs for stratagems rather than re-rolls, mostly because with big infantry squads I'm often rolling so many dice that a single reroll won't make much difference. Charges are the exception. But by turn three I was down to just the command phase CP, which removes a lot of tactical options, and means that your opponent knows that certain threats are off the table.

 

Also, I'm trying to play fluffier in 9th, and having two patriarchs in a single force just feels weird to me. Probably nastily effective, but weird. I'm okay with everything else, as things like the primus are generated specifically for war, so why not produce a couple? At the moment, I'm feeling like a battalion meets my needs, with the exception of the HQ slots - I'd like to fit an icon bearer in, and having multiple primi or magi running around would be lovely, but I don't know what I'd sacrifice to fit the extra HQs in, and you'd suffer a bit from diminishing returns - more HQs, but less CPs to power them up with...

 

Have you managed any 9th edition games yet?

Edited August 1, 2020 by Rogue

[Fajita Fan]

 

 

The games I've won (against the Grey Knights, and half of the combat patrol games) have pretty much all come down to board control - scoring high on the primary objectives, and frequently choosing objective based secondaries as well.

 

This seems to be the tie that binds the GSC, play for the win not for the kill.  It should be a fun, challenging army to play once I get mine painted up and we're not all going to die from hanging out in person.

 

 

 

 One of my expansion plans is to complete a squad of shotguns for the S4, and pair them up with some flamers. 

I have cut down all of the autoguns on mine into shotguns.  Neophytes are there to die and preferably in close to set up something else.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Fajita Fan

[Sonoftherubric21]

Any thoughts on Atalan jackals in 9th? 

 

I am debating diving hard on building a substantial number of them (15-20 probably) as I run a very mech-heavy list for my GSC. (not great competitively, but dang fun on the table).

 

Thoughts? 

[brother_b]

I haven’t managed any games, I haven’t played since the lock down. I usually play adeptus mechanicus, I started painting up some cult models because the army is awesome.

 

I want your take on smaller units as opposed to one giant unit.

 

I also have a Ridge Runner on sprue, I think making another one or two would be good. I have the atlan jackals, as well as the leader on the bike with the sniper rifle.

 

I came into a lot of models for cheap so I have many options. I’ll probably try and think of a 25 power level, or 500 point army with a little of everything, an all comers type of army.

[Rogue]

Sonoftherubric21 - sorry, never used them. I've heard positive things about them, and they're somewhere on my list of things to try, but beyond that, nothing.

 

Unit size is an interesting one, and I've tried both extremes with acolytes and aberrants. I think various sizes work, but do different things well, and so it'll often come down to having the right size unit in the right place at the right time. Which is 40k in a nutshell.

 

A big block of acolytes is a weapon. I've been running mine with just three rock saws and the Helix creed, and they've done well for me - they've taken out a paladin bomb, a primaris skirmish line, and assassinated several deathwatch characters over a few turns. But they're still fragile - two of my last three big games (two in 8th, one in 9th) saw the whole brood wiped out, and in the other only three survived the game (mostly because I tabled the opposition). I find that they can be too destructive - they'll kill whatever they hit, but that leaves them very exposed to counter-fire, and they rarely get to make a second charge. So they have to hit something big - dropping in from ambush makes that easier in some ways, but with a big blob, I've found it hard to reliably find somewhere to put them. On the plus side, a big squad maximises things like genetic lineage and might from beyond, which is helpful.

 

A small unit (like the minimum five) is a useful tool - I've used them to grab objectives from ambush, or charge into small infantry units that I don't want to hit with better combat units. Their weakness is that they struggle to hold on to what they've got, as five acolytes aren't hard to bolter to death. So they're good for denying my opponent points, having grabbed the objective or wiped out the guards in my turn (meaning no time to respond before his command phase), but tend to vanish before my own command phase. That's not a terrible role for them to play, and we can do a minimum squad for 40 points, but the small squads are mostly spoilers, not killers.

 

I'm starting to play around with something in between - ten acolyte squads - but only in combat patrol so far. Killy enough, able to hide, enough to overrun enemy troops in squads of 5 (the marine standard) for at least a turn to take objectives. But combat patrol plays very differently to strike force, so I'm not sure how well things will convert over.

 

On balance (and if I had enough acolytes), I'd be tempted to try a single big brood of 20 for sheer hitting power, supported by a couple of 5-acolyte broods to drop in on objectives, and maybe two medium-sized broods of 10 to act as combat spoilers, flanking the big brood and trying to tie up potential supporting units, or coming in as a second wave. With gear, that's around 500 points-worth of acolytes, which is a lot, but gives you a fair chance of outnumbering a lot of armies (especially as you'd still have 1500 points to spend). But until I can turn up another 30ish acolytes, we're well into the hypothetical now, and I'm hoping to keep this whole discussion a bit more experienced based.

 

I've had similar experiences with aberrants. A single big unit is awesome, and has killed anything I've thrown them at in a single phase (once managing to charge two units, engage one, mist it, consolidate into the other, fight again, and mist that too - but that was in 8th). But they suffer the same problem as the big acolyte unit - once they've killed their target, they can be very exposed, and still die to concentrated firepower, 5+ FNP or not.

 

So with aberrants, I'm finding that I definitely prefer running two small squads. For one thing, it maximises the hypermorphs, which is good. in my most recent game, I had both squads in reserve, coming in turns two and three with perfect ambush each time. The one before that, I started both on the table - with the Helix advance, both were able to move up to concealed positions in turn one, threatening to charge any units that went for the single central objective. With the right terrain, having them on the board provides a significant threat bubble, especially with the two squads. 

[brother_b]

Excellent once again. Thank you.

 

For first turn deployment I’m thinking about some Atlan Jackals to rush the mid table with follow up of some neophyte squads. As I’ve never played GSC before I’m not sure which characters should be on the board first turn. If I run Ridgerunners I’ll probably bring sniper girl.

 

Maybe a Magus? Again not sure.

 

I look forward to more input from other players. GSC info and activity is rare on these forums.

[Fajita Fan]

The new coherency rule on big mobs is interesting, I was never really a congo line guy but this is honestly my first true horde army outside of Fantasy and having to keep two guys in coherency makes moving around terrain a little more interesting.  I need to practice more on a game mat with some boxes to represent terrain how to get around things. 

[brother_b]

The new coherency rule on big mobs is interesting, I was never really a congo line guy but this is honestly my first true horde army outside of Fantasy and having to keep two guys in coherency makes moving around terrain a little more interesting.  I need to practice more on a game mat with some boxes to represent terrain how to get around things. 

Hey that's actually a good idea. I may try that as well.

[Rogue]

Remember that you can still go single file, as long as the bases are close to each other. A 32mm base (like acolytes) is 1,1/4", so with a 1/4" gap on either side, models 1 and 3 in line are still within 2" of each other, even if model 2 moves away.

 

The gap is sufficient to accommodate a ruined wall, as long as you're close against it on both sides.

 

I'm not advocating conga-lining (never really liked it as a thing), just pointing out that single file is still an option for maneuvering purposes.

 

Let us know if the boxes turn up anything interesting.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Question: Do you guys think Acolyte Iconwards are valuable enough to be worth taking? Given the points increases part of me feels yes, but another part of me thinks for its points (60) you could get a whole 10 extra bodies on the table or some relvant gear upgrades. 

 

Thoughts?

 

Addendum: this is given that in the new edition Aberrants will see table time far less given their drastic increase in cost. I don't wish to use aberrants beyond something minimal as I am primarily an..... unorthodox list for GSC.... as such until they see a change regarding their overall cost Aberrants will probably be on the shelf. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Sonoftherubric21

[ThePenitentOne]

I'm a Crusade player, so maybe I'm a whole other thing, but Iconwards are great in 25PL Combat Patrol.

 

My Cult is evolving from a single brood of purestrains; there's going to be a kill team game where every human taken out of action becomes infected- the purestrain who took out the most begins to evolve into a patriarch (Psychic upgrade Battle Honours + addition of familiars as he grows). Not sure what the trigger is for completion of his evolution. Could be blooded, heroic or legendary, but my personal fave is that he becomes a full patriarch once the first brood of purestrains is born to the cult.

 

Sorry for the tangent, but in that context, there's a good chance that the Iconward will be my first available HQ- he appears in the first "begotten" generation, where the magus doesn't show up until the 4rth generation.

[Sonoftherubric21]

hmmmm, Ill be including one for a while to see given the 6+++ it gives combined with my rusted claw with bikes and such perhaps would beneift from that. 

 

couple of acolyte drops with that bugger behind them certainly has uses. 

[Rogue]

I like the Iconward. I almost always had one around in 8th, usually with the Icon of the Cult Ascendant for the +1 strength, and occasionally with Alien Majesty to throw the whole aura out to 9". 

 

In 9th, I've only used one once, in a combat patrol game. Which I lost. He's definitely not a strong choice as a lone HQ.

 

The problem is that I'm currently playing with a single battalion. I don't really want to spend CPs on a second detachment. So I'm limited to three HQ choices - I want the Patriarch for combat threat and psychic buffing, the Primus for his +1 to hit aura, and then usually the Magus for his psychic support (and to take full advantage of Brood Coven). Which leaves no space for an Iconward.

 

Not only that, but playing as Helix means that I don't get much benefit from the relic banner anyway - my acolytes are already S5, wounding most things on 3s, and my aberrants are S6, so going to S7 doesn't make much difference. Maybe play him without the relic, but then a 6+++ is highly unreliable, likewise rerolling 1s on a 5+++. Sure, it'll help every now and then, but not enough. And that's the thing - I like him, I just don't like him enough to bump one of the coven.

 

 

Sonoftherubric21: what's this unorthodox list you're runnng? 

 

Personally, I'm still having success with aberrants. Yes, they're expensive, but they hit so hard, present a big threat bubble, and are more survivable than before with the increase in LoS-blocking terrain. I've also found that having them underground led to my opponent spending a lot of time guessing where they'd come in, and trying to defend against it, compromising his own play and positioning. I've heard the theory that good 40k play involves making your opponent make lots of decisions - the more he makes, the more chance of doing the wrong thing. Having aberrants up your sleeve results in opponents inventing decisions that you'd not even thought of, which is almost as useful as having them killing things.

[brother_b]

I like the Iconward. I almost always had one around in 8th, usually with the Icon of the Cult Ascendant for the +1 strength, and occasionally with Alien Majesty to throw the whole aura out to 9". 

 

In 9th, I've only used one once, in a combat patrol game. Which I lost. He's definitely not a strong choice as a lone HQ.

 

The problem is that I'm currently playing with a single battalion. I don't really want to spend CPs on a second detachment. So I'm limited to three HQ choices - I want the Patriarch for combat threat and psychic buffing, the Primus for his +1 to hit aura, and then usually the Magus for his psychic support (and to take full advantage of Brood Coven). Which leaves no space for an Iconward.

 

Not only that, but playing as Helix means that I don't get much benefit from the relic banner anyway - my acolytes are already S5, wounding most things on 3s, and my aberrants are S6, so going to S7 doesn't make much difference. Maybe play him without the relic, but then a 6+++ is highly unreliable, likewise rerolling 1s on a 5+++. Sure, it'll help every now and then, but not enough. And that's the thing - I like him, I just don't like him enough to bump one of the coven.

 

 

Sonoftherubric21: what's this unorthodox list you're runnng? 

 

Personally, I'm still having success with aberrants. Yes, they're expensive, but they hit so hard, present a big threat bubble, and are more survivable than before with the increase in LoS-blocking terrain. I've also found that having them underground led to my opponent spending a lot of time guessing where they'd come in, and trying to defend against it, compromising his own play and positioning. I've heard the theory that good 40k play involves making your opponent make lots of decisions - the more he makes, the more chance of doing the wrong thing. Having aberrants up your sleeve results in opponents inventing decisions that you'd not even thought of, which is almost as useful as having them killing things.

How many aberrants do you run? Truly they're one of the units that interests me the most.

 

How do you load them out?

 

I like the Broodcoven strat so will most likely do the same thing as you. I'd love to run a patrol too for more goodness being a second patriarch. I know fluff wise it makes more sense that there can be only one, but having extra psychers is so nice, so a patriarch and second magus would be amazing. That being said, I'm a far off from being ready to do that, and would love an abominant. Are they HQS? I'll have to really get the book out with Battle Scribe to start planning the army.

[Rogue]

Across my last three big games:

 

vs Ultramarines: 9 aberrants (8 picks, hypermorph)

vs DeathWatch: 5 aberrants (4 hammers, hypermorph), 5 aberrants (4 picks, hypermorph), plus the abominant

vs Grey Knights: 5 aberrants (4 hammers, hypermorph), 5 aberrants (4 picks, hypermorph)

 

In the Ultras game, they dropped in, perfect ambush, charged two squads, wiped out both using monstrous bio-horrors, smashed a hole in the centre of his line and then were shot to pieces. But the loss of those two squads stopped him organising his defences to meet my next wave, and stopped him moving up to contest objectives.

 

Against the DeathWatch, both broods moved up into blind spots turn one, and charged into a land raider turn two (along with the abominant) - the abominant and the picks killed it before the hammers even had a go (giving me control of the game's only objective marker), but then both broods were again cut down by firepower. The abominant made it into combat with a redemptor dreadnought, failed to kill it, and was shredded in return.

 

And in the Grey Knights game, they dropped in with perfect ambush in turns two and three - turn two saw the pick brood finish off a grandmaster dreadknight; turn three was a failed charge by the hammers. They were counter-charged by a regular dreadknight, who killed one, then the hammers finished him off. Both broods were killed by astral aiming heavy weapon squads after killing their targets. [side note - losing the ability to re-roll the perfect ambush distance is annoying]

 

I prefer to have four picks and four hammers, rather than two of each - with mixed broods, they're neither one thing or the other, and can suffer for it (and have, in other games). With dedicated broods, I can still commit them against the 'wrong' targets, and they'll still smash things up (the picks still made a mess of the raider, for example, although the hypermorph carried a lot of that weight); but when the right target appears, they can really go to town. 

 

The Abominant is okay (and yes, he's an HQ unit - I tend to use him as an alternative to the Patriarch). He feels like the fluffy choice in a Helix force with plenty of aberrants, but i wish he had more attacks - 3 attacks hitting on 4s isn't great. I have run him with biomorph and the elixir, pushing him up to 5 attacks, or biomorph and the scourge, for 4 attacks hitting on 3s (or 2s if a primus is nearby). He's another unit that has 'threat' written on him by the opposition (because that hammer can do a lot of damage, and he's difficult to put down), but his bark is usually worse than his bite. 

 

 

Maths bit...

 

The Primus and the Abominant produce the same number of extra hits when buffing aberrants. The Primus gives +1 to hit, meaning that for pick-armed aberrants, 2s are now hits. The Abominant turns 6s into two hits - we have an equal chance of rolling 2s as we do 6s, so the overall effect is the same. if we rolled 6 dice to hit, and got 1, 2 3, 4, 5, 6, then aberrants on their own get four hits (for 3, 4, 5 and 6). The Primus adds the 2, for five hits. The Abominant doubles up the 6, also scoring five hits. I hadn't realised that till now.

 

Regarding the Abominant as a warlord with a relic - biomorph and elixir (5 attacks at 4s) produce 2.5 hits on average, but biomorph and the scourge (4 attacks at 3s) produce 2.7 hits, making that the marginally better combination. But if there's a Primus nearby, the elixir version becomes 5 attacks at 3s, for 3.3 hits; and the scourge version becomes 4 attacks at 2s, for 3.3 hits too. Both relics have other benefits, and the extra toughness and wound provided by the elixir are probably more useful that the possible mortal wounds of the scourge, but still - numbers are interesting.

[Fajita Fan]

Not being able to jam aberrants in a Chimera anymore makes me not want to use them. 

[Debauchery101]

I'm just an opponent to GSC but what one of our club members has evolved his list into really has some potential. I did make a post on one of his lists. GSC is his ride or die faction. He basically plays his GSC like you would a Tau Farsight Enclave style list.

 

He uses tons of cheap stuff to spam blast templates from weapons teams. He uses 6 to 9 ridge runners. The Combos he uses with his Jackal Alphus and Astropaths work great.

 

He screens his entire backfield with the weapons team and Jackal Alphus. So even if he doesn't get first turn you have to go straight at him.

 

They way he runs this is using his jackal Alphus to spot screens then his Astropaths strip cover benefits if possible. With that much bs3+ shooting they can take down a knignt easily and still have leftover shooting.

 

I call his list the can opener. Hes going peel off any of your screens and slap a character.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Rogue]

Hmm. Something doesn't sound right there. The Alphus only gives +1 to hit to Cult units, and Brood Brothers don't have the Cult keyword (specifically, the <Cult> keyword). So none of the Brood Brother weapons teams can benefit, nor the sentinels, nor the Russ (although as a commander, that's 3+ to hit already). The Alphus also has a 6" bubble, so if those weapon teams are covering the backfield, then they'll likely be out of the effect anyway.

 

The neophytes and ridgerunner can benefit, but again, need to be within 6", forcing him into something of a castle. And if he moves, he either picks up -1 to hit on the neophytes, or leaves them behind.

 

So between the castling, and the fact that the Alphus can only tag one target unit a turn, I feel like you should still be able to limit his targets, potentially sacrifice a unit to Cult fire-power, but not get wiped away.

 

Unless I'm missing something.

[Debauchery101]

There is always options in my deployment to limit options if shooting. I dont recall him using the Hit bonus from the Alphus on Brood brothers. having around 10d3 'blast' las cannons hitting on 3+ after spamming weapons teams mortars and missile launchers. With any cover bonus denied is more than enough to scrap a lot of primaris. He does castle. His sentinels and Hybrids are used on the first turn to try and nab or contest objectives to force you to commit resources towards.

[Rogue]

It does look interesting, and certainly leans heavily into the Cult's shooting options.

 

I'd hazard a guess that your opponent would have gone with the Hivecult creed, which allows fall-back-and-shoot, a warlord aura for re-rolls 1s and the 'chilling efficiency' stratagem.

 

And I'd be curious to know how you go about tackling it in future match-ups.

[Debauchery101]

It does look interesting, and certainly leans heavily into the Cult's shooting options.

 

I'd hazard a guess that your opponent would have gone with the Hivecult creed, which allows fall-back-and-shoot, a warlord aura for re-rolls 1s and the 'chilling efficiency' stratagem.

 

And I'd be curious to know how you go about tackling it in future match-ups.

i actually used Necrons that match. I took it to the face pretty hard before I was able to flank in my tomb blades and get into hth with my wraiths and melee destroyers. He outscored me even.

 

As a marine player who mostly uses Wolves, Raptors and Successor Salamanders, I would forward deploy as many units as possible and then use the Lord of Deceit trait to redeploy phobos units after we roll off first turn..

If I had 1st turn vs this list I would redeploy troops and eliminators to one side. That way I can forge a path for deep strikes and flanking reserves. Also re deploying on one side vs a board control screen, i can avoid more rapid fire shooting from the opponent. Salamanders and Raptors/raven guard Aggressors are really powerful right now

[Sonoftherubric21]

Just saw the question, sorry for late reply! 

 

My list is a good number of vehicles, and is primarily mounted. 

This list is using Rusted Claw, as that (situational) bonus to save is amazing on bikes and infantry. 

 

5 bikes x2, shotguns/mining lazer

15 man acolytes with 6 saws

10 man acolytes with 2 demo charges and 2 saws.

Two 10 man units of Neophytes with 2 nade launchers and 2 mining lazers each.

20 man Neophyte with 2 grenade launchers

2 Trucks (Demo charges in each) 

2 Rockgrinders

3x Ridge runner (single unit, triple mining lazer) 

Jackal Alphus

Magus

Patriarch

Primus 

Kelermorph. 

 

I have only played one game with it, and it was a *very* close win against Salamanders primaris. I think the bikes were the biggest letdown as of now, but I need to play them more to decide. But everything else functioned very well. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Sonoftherubric21

[brother_b]

Just saw the question, sorry for late reply! 

 

My list is a good number of vehicles, and is primarily mounted. 

This list is using Rusted Claw, as that (situational) bonus to save is amazing on bikes and infantry. 

 

5 bikes x2, shotguns/mining lazer

15 man acolytes with 6 saws

10 man acolytes with 2 demo charges and 2 saws.

Two 10 man units of Neophytes with 2 nade launchers and 2 mining lazers each.

20 man Neophyte with 2 grenade launchers

2 Trucks (Demo charges in each) 

2 Rockgrinders

3x Ridge runner (single unit, triple mining lazer) 

Jackal Alphus

Magus

Patriarch

Primus 

Kelermorph. 

 

I have only played one game with it, and it was a *very* close win against Salamanders primaris. I think the bikes were the biggest letdown as of now, but I need to play them more to decide. But everything else functioned very well. 

I know you're only 1 game in, and you probably didn't face many blast weapons. How did your big units fare?

 

How did the rockgrinders do? I love the models and the ideas behind them. I want to take a couple as well.

 

Thank you!