How is the Cult doing on the tabletop in 9th?

[Sonoftherubric21]

The Rockgrinder wiffed that particular game, but that was on a charge against a primaris walker (the one with the Marine in the chassy) and awful dice rolls on my part!

 

I adore rockgrinders, on decent rolls they can shred a ton of hard targets on a charge with minimal support. (I had a Rockgrinder in 8th grind a Chapter Master into a fine red paste in one charge, and plow through whole units of intercessors in a turn. Hilarious and fitting!)

 

Rockgrinders are almost always going to die, so explosive charges are a solid option overall, leaving random characters near units for support especially in tight setups makes for perfect rockgrinder charges. 

 

As for my other big units: IMHO in this edition they are fantastic. We can very handily stop claiming of certain objectives, The acolytes are often a "one and done" kinda deal, but they hit hard *AND* are troops with Obsec which is critical this edition. The 20 man Shotgun/Grenade unit of neophytes is similar, I plan to often use "perfect ambush?" (the one where you drop 3 inches away) and feed something 36 Str 4 shotgun shells and 2 Krak Grenades from Launchers preferably on an objective. Support optional depending on how the table is setup, but the Kelermorph is good support for that unit, as he creates an Aura by killing a single model (very likely against infantry of most stripes) 

 

The Ridge Runners and Jackal Alphus form a module that runs around, tags important tanks, and Fires 3d3 Lascannon-equiv shots into them hitting on 3+ and wounding on  +1 to the wound roll. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Sonoftherubric21

[Rogue]

Looks like a good balance of shooting and combat. And beating the marines right now is always a good thing, no matter how close the game was.

 

How are you finding your target saturation with this list? Between the infantry, light vehicles and transports, it feels like you're providing a lot of targets for a full spectrum of incoming fire-power, so it would be helpful to know what you did to keep everything alive long enough for it to do damage.

 

And an a wider note, has anyone played around with strategic reserves yet? It feels like it's less useful (most of the time) than our own innate abilities, but I'm happy for someone to tell me how brilliant it is. 

[El_Dicko]

Ahoi cultists! Long time Chaos collected here recently saw the light of our Four Armed Emperor.

 

I just read through all of this and it’s very encouraging and enlightening. My local gaming group is doing crusade and I’m using it as a chance to get my GSC built and painted and on a table finally. I’ll be using a Magus(who is a converted Prieat) as my Warlord for narrative purposes, my idea was to start the campaign as a “loyal” religious crusade. The problem is the only painted units I have so far are an Abominant and 14 Aberrants, which is a massive chunk of the 50 PL and doesn’t leave me a whole lot of room for other stuff.

Here’s what I’m thinking for my initial crusade “pool”.

Hidden Content

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [50 PL, 993pts, 3CP] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [3CP]: 1. Combat Patrol (0-50 Total PL / 0-500 Points)

 

Detachment CP

 

+ HQ +

 

Abominant [6 PL, 110pts]

 

Acolyte Iconward [3 PL, 60pts]

 

Magus [5 PL, 85pts]: Warlord

 

+ Troops +

 

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 66pts]: Cult Icon

. 3x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 3x Blasting Charges, 3x Cultist Knife, 3x Hand Flamer, 3x Rending Claw

. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Demolition Charge

. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

 

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 67pts]: Cult Icon

. 2x Acolyte Hybrid: 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Cultist Knife, 2x Rending Claw

. Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): Hand Flamer

. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Drill

. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

 

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 92pts]: Cult Icon

. Neophyte Hybrid (Flamer): Flamer

. Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): Mining Laser

. 7x Neophyte Hybrid (Shotgun): 7x Autopistol, 7x Blasting Charges, 7x Shotgun

. Neophyte Leader: Bolt Pistol, Power Maul

 

+ Elites +

 

Aberrants [9 PL, 180pts]

. 4x Aberrant (Pick): 4x Power Pick, 4x Rending Claw

. Aberrant Hypermorph (Improvised): Heavy Improvised Weapon

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Atalan Jackals [6 PL, 113pts]

. Atalan Jackal: Autopistol, Improvised Weapon

. Atalan Jackal: Cultist Knife, Grenade Launcher

. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Power Hammer

. Atalan Leader: Bolt Pistol, Power Pick

. Atalan Wolfquad: Heavy Stubber

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Goliath Rockgrinder [6 PL, 135pts]: Cache of Demolition Charges, Clearance Incinerator, Heavy Stubber

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Goliath Truck [5 PL, 85pts]: Heavy Stubber, Twin Autocannon

 

++ Total: [50 PL, 3CP, 993pts] ++

 

[Sonoftherubric21]

Looks like a good balance of shooting and combat. And beating the marines right now is always a good thing, no matter how close the game was.

 

How are you finding your target saturation with this list? Between the infantry, light vehicles and transports, it feels like you're providing a lot of targets for a full spectrum of incoming fire-power, so it would be helpful to know what you did to keep everything alive long enough for it to do damage.

 

And an a wider note, has anyone played around with strategic reserves yet? It feels like it's less useful (most of the time) than our own innate abilities, but I'm happy for someone to tell me how brilliant it is. 

 

The real advantage is that we PICK our engagements. Something is probably gonna die, that game one of the rockgrinder popped top of 1, but I was able to deploy in such a way (using the extra blips strat) to effectively "Zone out" his executioner so turn 1 it killed nothing. 

 

The fact that we pick where things drop top of their shooting phase is *hugely* advantageous for us. 

 

I am only one game in but frankly I think we are in a solid position. GSC seems like we are going to do fine in 9th. I have a russ, a sentinel, and aberants, but frankly I don't want to use any of those ATM. 

[Rogue]

So, I've played a few more games - two 1000 pointers versus Ultramarines, and a 500 point against AdMech.

 

The main thing I learnt was this: don't play against marines. 

 

More specifically, Ulramarines have a lot of answers to the questions we want to ask, and I'm not yet finding good ways around that - their ability to overwatch with three nearby units (which currently seems to include a lot of aggressors) means that they're well able to cover their screening units with a lot of dice, and even their basic units seem to roll a lot of attacks; certainly enough to wear down acolyte units after the initial charge. Couple that with the option to fall back and still fire (potentially without modifiers), or even charge back in, and it's very difficult to engage their lines, and even harder to tie them up. 

 

I've also learnt that 6CP (for Incursion missions) does't go that far. I've always made a lot of use of Perfect Ambush, but increasingly, I'm finding that I'd rather have units on the board, and look to leverage advance and charge moves instead. 

 

It's not all doom and gloom. One of the things I've tried is breaking down my big acolyte brood into 5-hybrid units, with a rock saw in each one. One such unit charged into five marines, killed four and wounded the last. With a second rock saw (next up on my painting table), I'm fairly confident that 5 acolytes can wipe out 5 marines on a consistent basis. And for 60 points, I'm happy to trade them off if they get wiped out the following turn. Plus, small units are much easier to keep out of line of sight.

 

Anyone got bright ideas for knocking over marines?

[brother_b]

I'm not sure it's just Ultramarines, actually. The unpleasant truth is that Marines can bring a tool to every fight, and can usually dominate with those tools.

 

My biggest issue with marines are the 3 man squads that prevent deploying within 12". That single unit negates the special ability of our entire army. With three of those, they screen immensely, especially now that people want to play the tiny board sizes.

 

I have only run small games, really about 300 points trying out patrols, etc.

 

Against a friend doing the same with Marines and proxies for the above units (I forget their names) he was able to keep me away from everything.

 

I'm actually thinking of going all-in on large squads of neophytes. Sure, they'll give up lots of secondary points for those units but ce la vie. At least I can control what I give up. I'm thinking of arming those units with mining lasers and grenade launchers, or stub guns and grenade launchers and running them forward. I also plan on having some shotgun/flamer neophytes as well.

 

Atlans will also charge forward, we'll see how this goes. I know they'll melt, but hopefully keep my more important units safe.

 

For ambush I'll use acolytes with saws. How many and at what size, I don't know. 

 

For characters, another potential secondary give away, I have no idea what I'll use besides a patriarch and magus. We're limited in doubling down on those, unfortunately, so really not sure. Primus maybe, to make the broodcoven. Not sure what else.

 

Anyways, I'll let you know how my mini games go. Rockgrinders seem so cool, I may have to give them a try too!

Edited September 12, 2020 by brother_b

[crownedzoidberg]

I'm preparing for more games in the future and still don't know how I'm going to transition from 1k to 2k points.
This weekend I'm playing a broodcoven, 2 10 man Acolyte squads with a truckload of saws, 3 10 man Neophyte squads, a Truck and a Ridgerunner. I had leftover points for a bunch of upgrades, because I don't own any elite models yet - the Sanctus or Kelermorph cost CP to be effective due to the required relic or Lying in Wait - Stratagem, that's why I feel uncomfortable getting some for 1k points. I will probably reduce the acolytes to ~5 models and 2 saws each to increase my count on Ridgerunners - depending on how my firepower feels.

 

What I want to figure out is:

• Can a Shotgun/Flamer Neophyte squad in a Truck be a good and hasty objective-stealer?
• How many saws is too much within a 10 man Acolyte squad?
• How well are my Mental Onslaught - rolls?

Currently running a Bladed Cog Battalion to give my scoring units more survivability, above 1k I will definitely form a second more melee-focused detachment and put an Iconward in there.

Also I want to add that it's a shame an Acolyte Box only has 1 Rocksaw. I'm currently stalking ebay to buy off any leftover bits I can find.

Edited September 18, 2020 by crownedzoidberg

[Rogue]

I'll look forward to updates on those questions.

 

It feels like the shotgun/flamer combo for neophytes could be a good one, especially with flamers due to reach 12" when the marine codex drops.

 

And regarding rock saws - my gaming group are happy for me to play any of the mining combat weapons as rock saws. If nothing else, it makes life easier for everyone with only one stat line to remember, and saves time overall too.

 

This may not work for you, but worth asking, I think.

[crownedzoidberg]

Yeah, so my game didn't go well at all. We played a tag-team match of 2k points. I played with necrons against Tempest Scions and Imperial Fists. Our Fists player brought 2 redemptor dreadnoughts and 1 squad of centurions, which he put into the captain and lieutenant bubble. He was also the guy that put down terrain (check picture) which wasn't enough at all. Imperium got turn one and deleted our left flank out of existence. 

The shooting that was left from my part didn't do enough and shaved off some scions, bullgryns wounds (which held N and W objective) and about 1-2 tactical marines NE - pretty shameful shooting. The Rhino was my Goliath Truck proxy - it held it's ground but dropped down turn 2 under the fire of the Melta-Squad that jumped out of the Plane (forgot the name). We abandoned the game at turn 2 bottom because I couldn't deepstrike anywhere that mattered and out of sight of the deathstar our Marine player built. Shotgun guys were okay, I rolled poorly though - will definitely try them again!

What I can learn from this game:

• Charges on 9" are so unreliable and at those low point games I want 2 charges a turn. I might need CO4AE or a Deliverance Broodsurge if I really want to step up my Assault Phase.
• Don't let the Deathstar-Marine Player place the terrain without checking the board 360° - and maybe don't invite him next time ;-)
• Don't change your list too drastically after one obliteration. Go through changes systematically.
• PAINT MORE MINIS!

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by crownedzoidberg

[dracpanzer]

That table. Oof...

[Rogue]

Never let a shooting player set up terrain :)

 

I've got into the habit of setting the terrain (with multiple obscuring areas), then getting down to table height and working my way round looking for sight lines. If I can find more than a couple of places where I can see right across the table, then there's not enough terrain down. 

 

And I feel your pain on the 9" charge thing. I spent a lot of 8th playing as Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor, but ended up getting frustrated with it. 9" charges just aren't reliable, and so you need to stack 4AE, plus a clamavus, plus the broodsurge to access the augur of the insurgent, all to get to 7" with a re-roll, which is fairly reliable but far from nailed on. And uses up your cult creed, needs 2CP and requires two fairly vulnerable characters to stand pretty close to the enemy. And that's assuming you can deploy everything exactly 9" away and within 6" of the two support characters in the first place.

 

I think that the all-out ambush approach is too limited for us. It feels like the thematic way to go, but is so fragile and can be highly variable - miss a couple of key charges, and you're dead. 9th edition definitely feels like it favours more of a hit-and-run guerrilla approach - small mobile squads, skulking in ruins, denying ground through threat radius, then springing out and taking out enemy units as the chances present themselves. Less likely to work on the kind of open field you were faced with, but you were up against it whatever there. And if you still want to drop in from ambush, the Perfect Ambush stratagem can be helpful when you're only bringing in one key unit each turn, rather then trying to juggle everything in one glorious charge.

[crownedzoidberg]

Really great points there! I checked out the patreon-podcast of the Art of War about GSC with the same result. Less Cult Ambushes, MSU starting on the board and working yourself across the board with +2 Advance as twisted Helix or in some Transports. One Hammerant and Sawcolyte (working title) - Bomb, hidden in the shadows, but that's it.

I haven't had success with playing horde yet, since I haven't used target saturation or LOS to my advantage - well, sucks even more if there isn't even LOS-breaking terrain to begin with.

This is my agenda for the next training games:

Learn what it means to be a suqishy horde army, place way more infantry on the board and play the objective. Gather redundancy for scoring points, not kills.

Edited September 21, 2020 by crownedzoidberg

[Rogue]

I think the changes to overwatch were more significant than just reducing incoming fire. Traditionally, you wanted a big squad charging in to soak up the likely casualties. But now you can charge in with just five guys - if the enemy over watches, you might lose them all, true, but then that's it, no more overwatch threat that turn. So rather than losing squad after squad, we can bait out the overwatch, or if they choose not to fire, we tie up the unit, close down overwatch anyway, and then charge in with other squads.

 

It's an extreme example, but 5 acolytes with 2 rock saws are 60 points, so we can fill a brigade's worth of 12 troop slots for 720 points - that's a lot of useful units, board coverage and tactical flexibility, not to mention objective secured.

[crownedzoidberg]

I did quite well in a 1k game against Tempestus Scions.
Having lots of units on the ground, taking objectives and secondaries gave me an early point advantage that my opponent couldn't catch up to.

Stacking Bladed Cog and an Iconward on 2-3 Units of Neophytes/Acolytes feels really good. The Ridgerunners did amazing work with their lasers.
Mental Onslaught killed 2 units of scions for me, which was great.
I did some stupid mistakes when I got into melee, losing my Patriarch to 3 Bullgryns and not splitting my Attacks well between a character and Taurox with my 4 Saw Squad.

All in all it felt great having a normal "balanced" game of 40k where I do partake in decisionmaking.

Edit: My secondaries were Assassinate (3 Characters for Opponent), Domination (scored each time), Deploy Scramblers (Super Easy for GSC)

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [56 PL, 11CP, 1,001pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

 

Cult Creed: The Bladed Cog

 

Detachment CP

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Grandsire's Gifts [-1CP]: 1 Extra Sacred Relic

 

+ HQ +

 

Acolyte Iconward [3 PL, 60pts]: Mark of the Clawed Omnissiah

 

Magus [5 PL, 85pts]: Power: Mind Control, Power: Undying Vigour

 

Patriarch [7 PL, 135pts]: Amulet of the Voidwyrm, Power: Mental Onslaught, Power: Might From Beyond, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Biomorph Adaptation

 

+ Troops +

 

Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 130pts]: Cult Icon

. 5x Acolyte Hybrid: 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges, 5x Cultist Knife, 5x Rending Claw

. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw

. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw

. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw

. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw

. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

 

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 50pts]

. 4x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Cultist Knife, 4x Hand Flamer, 4x Rending Claw

. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer

 

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 50pts]

. 4x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Cultist Knife, 4x Hand Flamer, 4x Rending Claw

. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer

 

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 70pts]

. 8x Neophyte Hybrid: 8x Autogun, 8x Autopistol, 8x Blasting Charges

. Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): Mining Laser

. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

 

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 60pts]

. 9x Neophyte Hybrid (Shotgun): 9x Autopistol, 9x Blasting Charges, 9x Shotgun

. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

 

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 70pts]

. 8x Neophyte Hybrid: 8x Autogun, 8x Autopistol, 8x Blasting Charges

. Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): Mining Laser

. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Achilles Ridgerunners [8 PL, 140pts]

. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

 

Atalan Jackals [4 PL, 56pts]

. Atalan Jackal: Improvised Weapon, Shotgun

. Atalan Jackal: Improvised Weapon, Shotgun

. Atalan Jackal: Improvised Weapon, Shotgun

. Atalan Leader: Improvised Weapon, Shotgun

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Goliath Truck [5 PL, 95pts]: Cache of Demolition Charges, Heavy Stubber, Twin Autocannon

 

++ Total: [56 PL, 11CP, 1,001pts] ++

Edited September 25, 2020 by crownedzoidberg

[Rogue]

Looms like you're really making the Bladed Cog work for you there. And that's a good number of bodies on the ground for a 1000pt game.

 

Were the bullgryns armed with invulnerable save shields? I seem to find that my patriarch bounces of things with invulnerable saves (most frequently a marine captain with the sanctic halo) - the patriarch is deadly, but the -3AP does a fair bit of the work, and good invulnerable saves take that away.

 

 

I think you might be playing Mental Onslaught wrong, though - it really shouldn't be able to take out whole units unless something odd occurs.

 

The power targets a single model. After a winning roll-off, a single mortal wound is inflicted on that model's unit. But then we get the caveat 'if the selected model is still alive' before you repeat the process.

 

So if the other player removes the targeted model first, the Onslaught stops, and no other models in the unit die. Obviously, they don't have to take that model (maybe it's a coherency lynchpin), but most of the time it's the obvious thing to do.

 

Which boils down to - the only way to wipe units with Onslaught is if your opponent doesn't understand how the power works.

 

Sorry.

[crownedzoidberg]

Yeah, the bullgryns had 1 Model with the invuln shield - he saved 3/4 attacks and the return dmg killed me exactly.  Some might say it was jinxed.

Wow, yeah I am a cheating bastard. I will find the newest rule text of MO and put it into my rulebook.

[Rogue]

I think you're joking, but just to be clear: I'm definitely not making accusations of cheating. Getting rules wrong happens to us all (well, it happens to me).

[crownedzoidberg]

@Rogue - Nah, I didn't take it as such. I was calling myself one.

So, the new wave of FAQ's are out - bringing the 12" Flamer and D2 Heavy Bolter to the armies.

We already talked about an Acolyte Bomb that can deepstrike & flame on without the investment of CP, but what do you think about the Bolter Change?

The best Platforms I can think of are Leman Russes and Chimeras, latter one hasn't seen much play due to its lacking GSC Support (Transport 12 - Brood Brothers only), but costs 90 ish pts for rhino statline. Afaik there isn't any infantry Model that benefits from Bladed Cog (Move and Shoot Heavy without Penalty) and can carry one - bummer.

Edited October 6, 2020 by crownedzoidberg

[Akrim]

I had a pretty rough go with my GSC earlier this edition, ditched them for a bit then really reconfigured my units and it made a load of difference.

 

Im using a custom creed - Innate Fighters & Devout Worshippers, the latter is pretty good with MSU Metamorphs and choppy Acolytes, Aberrants, etc getting charge rerolls at 8" with the Clamavus.

 

Dedicating about 40% of the list to Astra-Brood Brothers just to get some quality shooting in and a couple mech squads.

 

I have unfortunately traded in my Neos (used to run Bladed Cog a lot) in favor of large Brood Brother troop squads to screen my Patriarch, board control, etc.

[crownedzoidberg]

@Akrim - Yeah I suppose it's a question of belief and what works for you after all. I added 2 SU Acolytes for objective holding and stealing, either putting them on the table from the start or having them as a backup depening on my opponent and the missions. I haven't seen Metamorphs as worth the points after the increase. Beforehand they costed close to the same as Acolytes and it was mostly a matter of what type of unit you need for your detachment. Does 1 unit of Metamorphs get the reroll charge themselves or would you need 2 units hugging each other to receive the reroll Aura?

 

[Rogue]

The wording is that <cult> units within 3" of <cult> metamorphs get to re-roll charges, and as the metamorphs are within 3" of themselves, they would get the re-roll too. Couple that up with the 1CP Violence Unleashed for +1 attack on each metamorph, and they could be pretty useful. That said, metamorphs are still relatively expensive, and 3" isn't that far. 

 

On the big guns question, I think the changes to heavy bolters (and the addition of blast to plasma cannons) makes for some interesting choices. At the moment, I'm almost always fighting marines of one colour or another, so tend to work things out against T4 3+. So...

 

Heavy bolter: 3 shots, hit on 4s, wound on 3s, save on 4+, 2 damage

Standard plasma: d3 shots, hit on 4s, wound on 3s, save on 6+, 1 damage

Super plasma: d3 shots, hit on 4s, wound on 2s, save on 6+, 1 damage

 

For a single shot, they have the following chance to do damage

Heavy bolter: 1/2 x 2/3 x 1/2 = 1/6 (12/72)

Standard:       1/2 x 2/3 x 5/6 = 5/18 (20/72)

Supercharge: 1/2 x 5/6 x 5/6 = 25/72

 

So a heavy bolter has less change to cause damage than a standard plasma cannon, but when it does, it'll kill a regular marine outright. Not only that, if we factor in the number of shots too (giving the plasma cannon the average shots of 2), then the heavy bolter is 3 x 12/72 x 2, for 72/72 (or 1); the standard plasma is 2 x 20/72 x 1 for 40/72. So while the heavy bolter is less effective per shot, its higher rate of fire and damage make it almost twice as effective overall (and cheaper).

 

The supercharged plasma cannon matches the heavy bolter for damage, but also runs the risk of causing mortal wounds to itself. If we go with the average shots again, but pause before damage, the supercharged plasma has 2 x 25/72, for 50/72 damaging hits - a slightly better than 2/3 chance of killing a regular marine (but with a 1/3 chance of wounding itself too). The heavy bolter is 36/72 damaging hits - exactly a 50% chance of killing a marine.

 

I run Russes rather than Chimeras, and am tempted to try heavy bolter sponsons for a while - I still have the battle cannon for tougher targets, and can chug away at T4 marines with the cheaper heavy bolters. Plus, if the tanks are engaged in combat, I can still fire the heavy bolters, which is a bonus.

[Rogue]

Played a small Incursion game yesterday: resupply, the one with five objectives, three along the mid-line, with two of the middle objectives disappearing in turns 4 and 5. 

 

It was a first go with a couple of things - my ridgerunner made its debut, and I had brood of six metamorphs with hand-flamers coming in from underground. The ridgerunner did okay; the mining laser swings like mad, but it almost felt like a bonus on top of the heavy stubbers, which can bring that bit of extra dakka to bear to plink away at lone survivors or to join in with neophytes. But the stars of the show were the hand-flamers.

 

I was going second, and the metamorphs dropped in turn three. They used Perfect Ambush to flame a squad of five infiltrators, then flamed them again in the shooting phase, wiping them out. The following turn, having survived fire from some rangers, they roasted all five of them too. The 12" range allows them to drop in without using stratagems (or using them to fire twice rather than move into range), and means that they can control and objective and still exert a pretty impressive threat bubble. As it turns out, they never got close enough to anything to fight (because everything in range was consistently crispy by the end of the shooting phase), so acolytes would have done just as well as metamorphs for a few points less. Next time, I think it's back to acolytes for flamers, and bare-bones metamorphs as an assault threat. 

 

And talking of acolytes, I had three broods of five, each with a single rock saw, and all generally within range of my Primus (because Alien Majesty). They just weren't as punchy as I wanted them to be, often charging in and not finishing off squads of five skitarii. They'd get there in the admech turn, but by then the skitarii had had a chance to hit back, and I was losing several acolytes each time, significantly reducing any future hitting power for going into the second line. Now, the rock saws did roll badly (one guy, needing 2s to hit and 2s to wound,managed to miss with one attack and fail to wound with the other two assaults in a row, killing no-one, after which he was dead), but I really felt like I wanted a second saw in there, just to even things out and give me more punch. Or, in this particular match-up, drop the saw altogether and just take the claw and knife attacks. But one saw on its own didn't quite get there.

 

My other good unit was a brood of ten neophytes with shotguns and a flamer (I'd like two, need to paint the model). In turn one, ruststalkers used a stratagem to get to 9" away, but missed their charge, allowing the brood and the flamer to overwatch, then close up, fire again, charge in, punch the survivors to death over two rounds (Helix +1S makes neophytes handier in combat vs T3), freeing them up to move forward, shoot and charge some vanguard in my turn two. They eventually died on an objective as the infiltrators came in and flechetted them to pieces, but it was fun while it lasted. They only have a 12" range, but that now includes the flamer all the time, and if they keep pressing forward, I found that they were getting within 6" for the shotgun bonus too. 

[Akrim]

@Rogue - nice, I definitely need to work more hand flamers into my list with the new range.

 

I probably wouldn't run Metamorphs if it wasnt for the assault rerolls they provide by creed. But It is worth noting that they provide the same attack line as a Genestealer for 4 points less (6 if you go with just whips, I like the extra talon attack though), albeit being a bit squishier.

My theory with Innate Fighters is that Im saving on buying Icons for my assault units at 10pts a pop.

 

I think MSU is a good way to roll with most of the elite assault units. Less tempting to overwatch, less of a loss if they dont make their assault roll and get greased. Less blast vulnerability, easier to hide.

 

Russ TCs are a good option for the on table portion of deployment. Ive been running a mix of plasma and HBs - D2 on the latter seems nice so far.

 

I roll a couple of Chimeras with just 10 infantry for midfield objective rushing. Harder to scrub off an objective I find.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Akrim

[crownedzoidberg]

MSU: I'm a big fan of 5 man Acolyte Squads with Hand Flamers, generating around 9 (T3) or 6 wounds (T4) the moment they come out of deepstrike.

Sorry for my poor mathhammering. You steal a poorly guarded objective or do your scrambler deploy - great value and utilty for mere 50 points.

 

At 2k points I might want to add 1-2 SU of Metamorphs as a cheap reroll-bubble, that is if you made a custom creed with Devout Worshippers. You could also get the special detachment, giving the same reroll bubble to an Iconward, but I have never seen that guy useful in the front lines. It feels weird to have him babysit 10 sawcolytes while he could give the FNP and Morale Reroll to your ~3 Squads of screening Neophytes in the back.

 

I am a sucker for Bladed Cog (hue), Overthrow the Opressors, giving extra attacks on 5+ against Marines, drastically improving the power of rending claws and rocksaws in your list. I am not satisfied with the creeds of 8th, they are way too specializied without the option to mix and match with detachments. At 1000 points I can't afford wasting CP on 2 different cult creeds. Have you guys tested custom creeds?

Edited October 14, 2020 by crownedzoidberg

[Rogue]

I've not played with the custom creeds at all. I do like the look of the Innate Fighters / Devout Worshipers combination, but at the same time, I'm loathe to give up the +1S and +2 advance I get from Twisted Helix. I run a lot of acolytes, and play against a lot of marine players, and that boost up to S5 makes a big difference. (it's interesting that neither half of the Helix creed reappears as a custom creed. Every other creed has one part pop up in the list. I like to think it's because they're both really good...)

 

Metamorphs are on my list of things to acquire, and once I have some, I'd like to try the Devout creed. It feels like you need several broods scattered about in order to buff a couple of acolyte broods each. 

 

Looking at that list of custom creeds again, they really feel a bit mediocre. Yes to Innate and Devout, but the rest are very specific, and seem to target things that aren't great in the first place - I don't want to overload on autoguns just to make the most of -1AP, and if I do, I probably don't want them within 12" of the enemy anyway. For example.