Dipping my toes into 9th with classics

[The Unseen]

So, haven't had any 9th games yet, and wanted to run some classic units, both as in classic marines, and as in units that I have a nostalgic fondness for that weren't good throughout 8th, namely DC dreads, aggressive tacticals in rhinos/razors, and the gloriously dorky Land Speeders.

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels) [124 PL, 9CP, 1,997pts] ++

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Armoury of Baal [-1CP]: 1 Additional Relic

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain [6 PL, -2CP, 120pts]: 5. Gift of Foresight, Death Visions of Sanguinius, Gleaming Pinions, Jump Pack, Master-crafted boltgun, Relic blade, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Warlord

 

Librarian Dreadnought [9 PL, 143pts]: 1. Quickening, 6. Wings of Sanguinus, Furioso fist, Storm bolter

 

Techmarine [6 PL, 80pts]: Combi-melta, Jump Pack Legends, Power axe

 

+ Troops +

 

Tactical Squad [4 PL, 100pts]

. 3x Space Marine: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades

. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-melta, Power sword

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer

 

Tactical Squad [4 PL, 100pts]

. 3x Space Marine: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades

. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-melta, Power sword

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer

 

Tactical Squad [4 PL, 100pts]

. 3x Space Marine: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades

. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-melta, Power sword

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp

 

Tactical Squad [4 PL, 100pts]

. 3x Space Marine: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades

. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-melta, Power sword

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp

 

+ Elites +

 

Death Company Dreadnought [9 PL, 140pts]: Furioso fist (pair), Heavy flamer, Meltagun, Smoke launchers

 

Death Company Dreadnought [9 PL, 140pts]: Furioso fist (pair), Heavy flamer, Meltagun, Smoke launchers

 

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [13 PL, 205pts]: Cyclone missile launcher

. Dreadnought melee weapon: Dreadnought combat weapon, Heavy flamer

. Twin lascannon

 

Sanguinary Ancient [6 PL, 85pts]: 4. Heroic Bearing, Angelus boltgun, Death mask, Power fist, Standard of Sacrifice, Warlord

 

Sanguinary Guard [20 PL, 272pts]: Death mask

. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist

. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist

. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist

. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist

. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist

. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist

. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist

. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Land Speeder Tempest [8 PL, 80pts]

. Land Speeder Tempest: Assault cannon

 

Land Speeder Tempest [8 PL, 80pts]

. Land Speeder Tempest: Assault cannon

 

Land Speeder Tempest [8 PL, 80pts]

. Land Speeder Tempest: Assault cannon

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Rhino [3 PL, 86pts]: Hunter-killer missile, 2x Storm bolter

 

Rhino [3 PL, 86pts]: Hunter-killer missile, 2x Storm bolter

 

Total: 124 PL, 1997 Pts

 

The 4 tacticals all pile into the 2 rhinos, though if I have homefield objectives the grav squads can be left behind and still contribute at 24", which together with the 3 Dreads form a core to take the midfield, the Land Speeders form a decent wall of fast moving dakka, and the tempests get a cool boost if you need to snag a faraway objective, they can advance and then basically turn into 20-35" flyers with a -1 to-hit on themselves.

 

If you dont like the forgeworld a regular land speeder with assault cannon + heavy flamer is the same price, but I kinda like the tempest launchers for a bit of anti-heavy infantry fire, as d3 Str6 -2AP 2 damage blast shots isnt bad for hurting Primaris.

 

The captain is left cheaper by going with a relic blade and gun vs a hammer, and he's primarily going to take on infantry squads and go hunt characters, where the hammer is overkill and also less accurate. Pinions also seem really good now that when you CP reroll a charge you get both dice, making the angels wing less of an auto-take when combined with overwatch changes, and being able to fall back and charge is very useful.

 

The Libby dread uses the DC dreads to screen himself, then gets to leap over them and go murder big things, he's my replacement smash captain, and if you think your going to be seeing lots of Knights, Hero of the Chapter for the D4 weapon is probably worth since this list is only spending 3 CP before the game starts. (1 extra relic 1 extra trait, death visions)

 

The techmarine just seemed good with this many vehicles running around, slapping d3 wounds back on a dread can be game changing, and using the jump pack means he can UWoF anywhere he's needed for the heals.

 

With the price hikes on DC and SG both, I think its now an either OR question, I dont think we have the points to bring more than 1 cc hammer unit, without skimping elsewhere in the list, just my opinion currently, and well see how 9th goes. This list is going with SG because it's primarily an armor saturation list, and with their 2+ save and 2 wounds plus the SoS, they're very durable vs anti infantry weapons, and hopefully the bigger guns will have more important things to deal with. And they dont need as much support as DC do, all they need is the Warlord Ancient and some CP for Descent.

 

Its light on bodies for objective scoring, but has a lot of speed and punch to take control of the midfield, and the squishy tacs are hiding inside of otherwise unthreatening rhinos behind 4 rampaging dreads, so I think they'll live long enough to score some points.

Plus the Tempests are great for grabbing Engage on All Fronts and uncontested objectives while still putting out some anti-infantry dakka at 24".

[Captain Caine 24th]

Alright, take everything I say with a grain of salt as I've not played 9th yet. So as you've got a good analysis of why you took the units, today I figure I'll take a different approach. I want to look at your list as if I'm playing the opposing force, let's say I'm using my Imperial guard/astra militarum. 

 

Primaries: I see you can move fairly fast. That means you'll be on top of objectives soon. I could race you out to the objectives with infantry orders, but I won't live long after that. If I want to keep those objectives I'll have to fight or shoot. Hand to hand doesn't look great for me. Lots of melee threats. Sanguinary guard can punch hard.

 

But, maybe you can't be everywhere at once. If so, my first thought is to pick certain objectives and really make a fight out of just a couple--I'm not beating you at holding them all. As long as I can get on top of two objectives, I'm doing ok.

 

Maybe I've brought some bullgryns to give you a hard time. If they tie up some center objectives, it might cause you to devote a disproportionate response, buying me time. As to shooting, well, I guess I better have a lot of it and expect to make up the difference of your likely early scoring with me scrambling to get them all at the end. I suppose I might load up with chimeras and plasma veterans. It's possible I could cause too much attrition--trading units is a dangerous game with an elite army (though plasma vets aren't exactly cheap either).

 

Selecting Secondaries Against You...

• Assassinate - Looks like you've got about 4 characters. At 3VP per character it'd be a Max score 12, not outrageous to think I'd get 3. I'd be giving up 3pts straight away.
• Bring it down - looks like 2x rhinos, 3x dreadnoughts, 1x librarian dread, 3x landspeeders. At first glance I should be able to get max points... but, i think dreadnoughts, rhinos and contemptors are under 11 wounds, meaning I'm only getting 2VP per kill instead of 3. Still, you've got enough vehicles it makes sense. Rhinos are kind of a sleeper unit, i think, in that you don't really see them as a threat until they take an objective or are worth VP. Also impulsors are comparatively expensive.
• titan slayers - doesn't make sense
• slay the warlord - meh, ok. But it looks like I auto give up 9VP as it's only worth 6. still a bird in hand, is better than two in the bush. BA love to die gloriously in battle.
• thin their ranks - ah, too complicated. What do you have, 40 models? That be 4VP. And, models over 10 wounds are an extra 1VP... but I don't think you have any. This one doesn't seem like a good idea.
• Abhor the witch - Looks like 5VP if I kill the libby dread.
• attrition - you army isn't the easiest to kill. Will I even get a kill T1? Then if you're in terrain or in melee, It's hard to say I'll score much here. I mean it's not deathguard durability, but BA are still marines. And, if I've got guard it won't be hard for you to block me scoring this by killing the low hanging fruit.
• while we stand we fight - so i've got to get my 3x most expensive units to survive. So that's probably, what, tank commanders? I doubt you'll be happy to let them sit untouched at the rear of the battlefield while I rake in 15 glorious VP. Most likely I'll use punisher cannons on tank commanders so I'll be up in the fight anyway. Maybe I have one live at the end of T5 when we both have 3 badly wounded models crawling around the board for objectives.
• First strike - 5VP if I kill an enemy and an extra 3VP if I get more. I guess it's doable. If you throw yourself out there wildly I might clean up a bit that first turn. Maybe I play and deploy very defensibly so that I deny you any kills while getting myself set up to kill 1 or 2 of your squads. Meh. 
• Engage on all fronts - if i'm playing a fairly large amount of units against you, i'll probably be keen on this. Your fast moving assault units could likely block me from all table quarters, and maybe keep me to two per turn.
• Linebreaker - makes sense. I suppose I could put a lot cheap reserves in to cause you to devote disproportionate amounts of units to the rear, away from objectives. it'd be hard to max it, but it does appear to score at the end of the turn.
• Domination - hold more than opponent... Well I might get it a couple of turns at best.
• action based objectives - I might do okay performing actions, but needing to be within 6" of the center of the table is not great. Your assault army would love to see me huddled up in one spot. Raise banners high might work, but again my troops won't last long under heavy melee.

Anyway, thought it might be a fruitful exercise to play opposing force. So, tell me I'm wrong or right or something else. Whatever your thoughts, I think we both could learn from it.

Happy hunting.