Legion Hussars

[The Ironic Warrior]

Hey all

No doubt most people have seen the new Road to Thramas article (if not here's the LINK)
The big thing that caught my eye was the Legion Hussar Squadron - what do we think they are? I'm gonna gamble and pray for melee-focused jetbikes.

[WrathOfTheLion]

The DA have historically had hussar wings on their bikes. I think it might be a normal bike unit though, but some melee biker. Maybe proto-RW black knight sort of thing? One that they have given to the legions as a whole.

Is the Jetbike Sky Seeker squadron new as well?

Edited August 3, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Yeah, I suspect that the Hussars and Sky-Seekers are melee-dedicated bikers and jetbikers respectively, potentially both Elites choices considering the existing Sky-Slayers are a Heavy support choice?

[Indefragable]

Key thing is that they are listed in the "Legion Additions" section, not under "Dark Angels" units so like Nullifcators et al, all (most?) Legions will get access to them. 

 

I think melee bikes of some sort is a great guess. FWIW, Hussars were traditionally light cavalry unit meant for scouting and riding down fleeing enemies, a job they often relished and gained a notoriety for. It's possible "hussar" is used just to make a cool/different unit name. On the other hand, if they are meant to represent their historical counterparts.....then we could have a unit that perhaps enemies cannot Fall Back from or get some sort of "cut them down" bonus for enemies that try to flee. An ideal unit for knocking light troops off of backfield objectives and then speedily moving on to others. 

 

Sounds like an interesting addition to the Ravenwing and a perfect addition to the Night Lords we didn't even realize we wanted. 

[Gederas]

Key thing is that they are listed in the "Legion Additions" section, not under "Dark Angels" units so like Nullifcators et al, all (most?) Legions will get access to them. 

 

I think melee bikes of some sort is a great guess. FWIW, Hussars were traditionally light cavalry unit meant for scouting and riding down fleeing enemies, a job they often relished and gained a notoriety for. It's possible "hussar" is used just to make a cool/different unit name. On the other hand, if they are meant to represent their historical counterparts.....then we could have a unit that perhaps enemies cannot Fall Back from or get some sort of "cut them down" bonus for enemies that try to flee. An ideal unit for knocking light troops off of backfield objectives and then speedily moving on to others. 

 

Sounds like an interesting addition to the Ravenwing and a perfect addition to the Night Lords we didn't even realize we wanted. 

I didn't know that's what the historical role of Hussars was. Pretty cool.

 

But the real question is this:

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Gederas

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Key thing is that they are listed in the "Legion Additions" section, not under "Dark Angels" units so like Nullifcators et al, all (most?) Legions will get access to them. 

 

I think melee bikes of some sort is a great guess. FWIW, Hussars were traditionally light cavalry unit meant for scouting and riding down fleeing enemies, a job they often relished and gained a notoriety for. It's possible "hussar" is used just to make a cool/different unit name. On the other hand, if they are meant to represent their historical counterparts.....then we could have a unit that perhaps enemies cannot Fall Back from or get some sort of "cut them down" bonus for enemies that try to flee. An ideal unit for knocking light troops off of backfield objectives and then speedily moving on to others. 

 

Sounds like an interesting addition to the Ravenwing and a perfect addition to the Night Lords we didn't even realize we wanted. 

 

One thing I like from us getting new multi-Legion non-vehicle units - starting with the Nullifiers in Malevolence - is that they interact with Legiones Astartes special rules/ Legion-specific wargear in interesting ways (especially as a Shattered Legions collector who has access to 4 different Legions) so there are potentially a bunch of interesting builds.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'm not sure how melee-bikers would work compared to outriders that can be specced to be melee.

[Gederas]

I'm not sure how melee-bikers would work compared to outriders that can be specced to be melee.

More attacks/options for melee weapons? Special rules for melee?

 

(note: I don't have any of the books for 30k, so my knowledge is as of yet severely lacking)

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I'm not sure how melee-bikers would work compared to outriders that can be specced to be melee.

 

Everyone gets a power weapon & combat shield & can swap their bike's TL bolters for TL volkite chargers? That plus a 1 in 3 lightning claw/ power fist/ thunder hammer and some kind of melee special rule would make a pretty decent melee unit while being distinct from the outriders' special weapon deal.

[Ghorgul]

Maybe they will get Hit&Run printed on the tin? Or alternatively some massive charge bonus. Could be even both, altho Hit&Run is pretty premium USR so I'm a little doubtful about that.

[zedmeister]

Another possibility is that these will be Legion Attack Bikes but souped up with some flash resin releases?

[Sparika]

Hussars are usually depicted with swords/sabers. However, winged hussars are more often depicted with spears. Apparently they could have any weapons including pistols and bows, but going by popular depiction, Legion Hussars could be spear armed bikers. That would be fun.

Also, even now french army hussars are light cavalry scout units. But by cavalry they mean armoured cars and quads.

[SkimaskMohawk]

They could definitely have higher ws/better melee options than the current 1/3. But I don't think they'd go too far down the route of powerfist/thunderhammer simply because theyve been very careful not to make very fast, very hard-hitting melee units outside of characters. You look at any of the legion units with jump packs and they all have power weapon equivalent options; golden keshig are given stronger weapons that only go to str 7 and have luck dependant instant death while being capped at 6 attacks max. I can't imagine a melee bike unit that stays within those bounds that isn't undercut by the outriders somewhat.

 

Maybe power weapons for all, furious charge and 2 attacks base?

[Indefragable]

Hussars are usually depicted with swords/sabers. However, winged hussars are more often depicted with spears. Apparently they could have any weapons including pistols and bows, but going by popular depiction, Legion Hussars could be spear armed bikers. That would be fun.

 

Also, even now french army hussars are light cavalry scout units. But by cavalry they mean armoured cars and quads.

 

More historical perspective: 

 

Hidden Content

 

Hussars originated in the Balkans, where their light calvary/skirmisher tactics evolved from their historical run-ins with the Ottomons. Western armies, going as far back as ancient Greece, tended to favor armor and shock infantry tactics ("heavy" infantry if you will) while Eastern armies (from Persia East until you got to China which did pretty much everything under the sun) tended to favor longer-range forces that could fight more running encounters rather than set-piece "push" battles ("light" infantry if you will). While this mentality did not directly translate to calvary as well, similar principles still applied into the gunpowder age where Western armies long featured Cuirassiers, or armored-breastplate wearing calvary (think Conquistadors) and Eastern armies had lots of fast, unarmored calvary that would flank the enemy and harass them on the move as opposed to the charge-to-break-them of armored calvary. So where Hussars stand out and became a "thing" is because they were essentially the Eastern-tactic calvary unit in Western armies. 

 

Almost all calvary traditionally were meant to ride down the enemy. However, Cuirassiers were meant to get into the thick of it, and Uhlans/Lancers were unarmored spear-calvary meant to aim straight at the enemy and either skewer them or get them to break and run for the hills (the more common sensible option). Hussars, in contrast, were deployed at the far ranges of army's reach, foraging for supplies, tracking the enemy movements, and harassing his scouting units. During or after battle they would also viciously cut down the enemy's routing or wounded foes, so altogether they were sort of privateers or pirates on land. They become a culture all their own and were disdained by other forces yet begrudgingly respected by commanders for their effect in "shaping" the battlefield. One could even go so far as to say they were bandits in the employ of an army, and in fact often times the arrangement was that they could keep whatever they foraged in lieu of pay. 

 

Famous Hussars:

 

-Polish Winged Hussars: more the exception to the rule above rather than the exemplifiers....really more of heavy calvary/lancers, as they wore both armor and carried spears. The secret to their success was that they had the speed and mobility of light calvary (unarmored horses) yet the shock factor and staying power of heavier calvary. Take one look at these guys and you can see where the 40k iteration of Ravenwing comes from. 

 

-Prussian "Death's Head Hussars" of Frederick the Great: a unit of hussars formed at the personal order of Frederick the Great. They wore a skull and crossbones on their tall hats, which was copied by other hussar units and became a de factor symbol for the unit type in many countries

 

Mega cool points: apparently mustaches were considered a part of the uniform for them.

 

 

Again, my suspicion is that they just picked a historical military name and threw it on a new unit. But if they are as much of a history wonk as I am, it will be very cool to see if there's more to the name. It's tricky with Space Marines, however, since Space Marines' shtick is essentially heavy infantry. Putting them on bikes thus makes them heavy calvary by default, but bikes play a comparatively "light" function for Space Marines in both 30k/40k. Hence it is going to be interesting what they come up with. 

 

If they take the Hussar thing to heart, we could see Sv4+ bikes that can charge from outflanking, or are almost like the White Scars' Falcon Claws (Infiltrating Sv4+ w/ 2x lightning claws) on bikes. Or perhaps as I mentioned above, a unit that excels at preventing enemies from Falling Back from melee or otherwise somehow ties them up. 

[Slips]

If we get this but Warhammer 40k

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXlPI2XSFrc

 

It might be enough to sway me from my general distaste of 40k Space Marine bikes. If they're jetbikes, I'm instantly on board.

[Doctor Perils]

I'm hoping for Polish Winged Hussar (jet)bikers, but even if they're recon-armoured CC bikers they could be a very fun addition to the list

[SkimaskMohawk]

Ive been tempted to start scars after doing a mockup for a client a few days ago; more bike options might push me towards it :/

[Master Sheol]

It Is something hè reminds me the RW of the first legion

DA comes from a feudal death world with orders of knights

Hussars are an order of knights from Poland that looked like this

DA RW were on bikes that looked like this (in 3rd edition before the plastic kit in 4th edition)

I guess the links are fairly evident

OFC that could be a jetbike squad instead of a wheeled bikes one but i think the inspiration is clear

[Dhar'Neth]

Any news on the rules?

[Gederas]

Any news on the rules?

5 to start, 10 max. Bolt Pistol, Chainsword/Combat Blade and twin-linked bolter on the bike.

 

The entire squad can swap their Twin-linked bolters for a Snub Rotor Cannon (12" S3 AP6 Salvo 4/5). Sergeant can replace his Bolt Pistol with a Hand Flamer or Plasma Pistol (same points for each), Sergeant can exchange his chainsword for a Power Weapon/Power Fist/Single Lightning Claw, and the sergeant can also take Melta Bombs

 

They're a Support Squad Troop choice

[Indefragable]

 

 

Any news on the rules?

5 to start, 10 max. Bolt Pistol, Chainsword/Combat Blade and twin-linked bolter on the bike.

 

The entire squad can swap their Twin-linked bolters for a Snub Rotor Cannon (12" S3 AP6 Salvo 4/5). Sergeant can replace his Bolt Pistol with a Hand Flamer or Plasma Pistol (same points for each), Sergeant can exchange his chainsword for a Power Weapon/Power Fist/Single Lightning Claw, and the sergeant can also take Melta Bombs

 

They're a Support Squad Troop choice

I’ll have to take a look when my copy comes in (sometimes things don’t click until you’re holding the book with a cup of recaf)...

 

...but first thoughts are that they’re best feature (and maybe whole point?) is that they are in the Troops slot? Biker Troops for any Legion and (almost) any RoW is interesting.

[Gederas]

Any news on the rules?

5 to start, 10 max. Bolt Pistol, Chainsword/Combat Blade and twin-linked bolter on the bike.

 

The entire squad can swap their Twin-linked bolters for a Snub Rotor Cannon (12" S3 AP6 Salvo 4/5). Sergeant can replace his Bolt Pistol with a Hand Flamer or Plasma Pistol (same points for each), Sergeant can exchange his chainsword for a Power Weapon/Power Fist/Single Lightning Claw, and the sergeant can also take Melta Bombs

 

They're a Support Squad Troop choice

I’ll have to take a look when my copy comes in (sometimes things don’t click until you’re holding the book with a cup of recaf)...

 

...but first thoughts are that they’re best feature (and maybe whole point?) is that they are in the Troops slot? Biker Troops for any Legion and (almost) any RoW is interesting.

Yeah, likely.. Though Support squad makes them unable to be the mandatory troops. Afterwards though, go nuts? :lol:

[StrangerOrders]

 

Any news on the rules?

5 to start, 10 max. Bolt Pistol, Chainsword/Combat Blade and twin-linked bolter on the bike.

 

The entire squad can swap their Twin-linked bolters for a Snub Rotor Cannon (12" S3 AP6 Salvo 4/5). Sergeant can replace his Bolt Pistol with a Hand Flamer or Plasma Pistol (same points for each), Sergeant can exchange his chainsword for a Power Weapon/Power Fist/Single Lightning Claw, and the sergeant can also take Melta Bombs

 

They're a Support Squad Troop choice

I’ll have to take a look when my copy comes in (sometimes things don’t click until you’re holding the book with a cup of recaf)...

 

...but first thoughts are that they’re best feature (and maybe whole point?) is that they are in the Troops slot? Biker Troops for any Legion and (almost) any RoW is interesting.

Yeah, likely.. Though Support squad makes them unable to be the mandatory troops. Afterwards though, go nuts?

 

30 per model also strikes me as actually pretty reasonable for what you get on each, being about the same as the Outriders iirc. 

 

Although its interesting that they have a bigger squad size requirement than most bike things in 30k despite seeming pretty darned identical. Although it does give the Scars and other bike Legions some mileage in small games since they will have an easier time getting more squads in by taking Outriders. 

 

Wonder if they will get distinct models or just be rolled in with Outriders?

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

See I figured it was just an easy way to include Scout/Chaos bikers in a legion army, with a few easy tweaks of course:

 

 

[Varyn]

The fact that they have hit and run is excellent, hammer of wrath, 3 attacks on the charge plus a power weapon/legion specific weapon on the sergeant means they're no slouches in melee. No melta-bombs, but that's fine as there are plenty of other melee units to fill that void. 

 

I plan on running a unit of 6 with a phoenix spear on the sergeant in my emperor's children army.

 

I think the rotor cannons are a bit of a points sink, the unit is 5 minimum, which means 50 points for the rotor cannons, you can almost buy 2 more bikers for the same cost. Plus as my friend pointed out, they'll be effectively S2 against his Iron Hands!

Edited September 14, 2020 by Varyn