Legion Hussars

[Dhar'Neth]

I'd already been meaning to do my large bunch of chaos bikers as Iron Warriors, this confirms it. Anyone know of tutorials for converting MkIII to riding stances?

 

I also think I have the old Obliterator assault cannon bit knocking around which would be ideal for the snub rotor cannon - does the full squad have to be so upgraded? Do they get any other options outside of the Sgt?

Please be noted that plastic mk3 bodies will not fit riders leg - nor the Kromlech nor regular one from plastic SM/CSM bikes without serious modifications as the “metal talbard” part would need to be cut off. Edited September 16, 2020 by Dhar'Neth

[Gorgoff]

I'd already been meaning to do my large bunch of chaos bikers as Iron Warriors, this confirms it. Anyone know of tutorials for converting MkIII to riding stances?

 

Kromlech sells mkiii biker legs.

[dicebod]

Considering that these guys can't really benefit from most character attachments (since for the majority of legions they don't have H&R), how would you build them?  Max size?  Or MSU units to harry your opponents backfield tac squads?

[Ficinus]

You can toss characters and apothecaries in, Hit and Run works as long as one model in the squad has it, not every model.  It probably depends on the legion, but min size with an apothecary would probably be enough since they're tough and have jink.  Then you can charge and tie up units you don't want shooting or weaker units that you can use to hide them in close combat as you work your way across the board.  Charge some Tactical marines or breachers to not get shot at, then hit and run out in their turn and use that movement to move up the board, then move again and hit another target.  Something like that.

 

I'd try them at min size, but if it doesn't work well enough, maybe go up to larger squads?

[Cadmus Tyro]

I'd already been meaning to do my large bunch of chaos bikers as Iron Warriors, this confirms it. Anyone know of tutorials for converting MkIII to riding stances?

I also think I have the old Obliterator assault cannon bit knocking around which would be ideal for the snub rotor cannon - does the full squad have to be so upgraded? Do they get any other options outside of the Sgt?

I made some outriders a while ago for my XXth Effrit:

They use old SM bikes, with a few upgrades. Mkiii torso with groin armour removed and kromlech biker legs. The plastic raven wing kit has arms that are passable for Mkii/iii.

Cadmus

Edited September 17, 2020 by Cadmus Tyro

[dicebod]

You can toss characters and apothecaries in, Hit and Run works as long as one model in the squad has it, not every model.  It probably depends on the legion, but min size with an apothecary would probably be enough since they're tough and have jink.  Then you can charge and tie up units you don't want shooting or weaker units that you can use to hide them in close combat as you work your way across the board.  Charge some Tactical marines or breachers to not get shot at, then hit and run out in their turn and use that movement to move up the board, then move again and hit another target.  Something like that.

 

I'd try them at min size, but if it doesn't work well enough, maybe go up to larger squads?

 

Huh, I guess it's been a while since I took a look at the HH rulebook!  Adding a character while still retaining that H&R buff does make them significantly more attractive.  

 

For EC Maru Skara, I think a 5 man squad with your compulsory Champion attached on a bike could be a great second-line assault unit.  Sergeant with a Power Spear, Champion with a Paragon Blade, jinking every turn until you hit something juicy.  And it has the added benefit of being pretty cheap as far as retinue squads go...I think I've been convinced!

[Indefragable]

I'd already been meaning to do my large bunch of chaos bikers as Iron Warriors, this confirms it. Anyone know of tutorials for converting MkIII to riding stances?

I also think I have the old Obliterator assault cannon bit knocking around which would be ideal for the snub rotor cannon - does the full squad have to be so upgraded? Do they get any other options outside of the Sgt?

I made some outriders a while ago for my XXth Effrit:

<snip>

Hidden Content

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They use old SM bikes, with a few upgrades. Mkiii torso with groin armour removed and kromlech biker legs. The plastic raven wing kit has arms that are passable for Mkii/iii.

Cadmus

Here's my converted IV Legion bikers, FWIW. I similarly trimmed the MKIII bits just enough to fit better (I think I caved and used MKIV backpacks and maybe legs...but to me the IV is a practical legion that cobbles things together in battle).

Hidden Content

You can toss characters and apothecaries in, Hit and Run works as long as one model in the squad has it, not every model. It probably depends on the legion, but min size with an apothecary would probably be enough since they're tough and have jink. Then you can charge and tie up units you don't want shooting or weaker units that you can use to hide them in close combat as you work your way across the board. Charge some Tactical marines or breachers to not get shot at, then hit and run out in their turn and use that movement to move up the board, then move again and hit another target. Something like that.

I'd try them at min size, but if it doesn't work well enough, maybe go up to larger squads?

Huh, I guess it's been a while since I took a look at the HH rulebook! Adding a character while still retaining that H&R buff does make them significantly more attractive.

For EC Maru Skara, I think a 5 man squad with your compulsory Champion attached on a bike could be a great second-line assault unit. Sergeant with a Power Spear, Champion with a Paragon Blade, jinking every turn until you hit something juicy. And it has the added benefit of being pretty cheap as far as retinue squads go...I think I've been convinced!

...and it's Obsec too!

Edited September 18, 2020 by Indefragable

[No Foes Remain]

Looking at the rules and as an Ultramarines player the Sky Seekers seem a lot better points for what they can bring, not just the Heavy Rota Cannons just for the amount of saves it will force even on marines, but for the Oracle Array. Designating a target to give units +1 to shoot on top of re-rolling 1s to pen or to-wound if another unit has shot it? Pretty tastey combo.

[Cadmus Tyro]

Interesting that the sky seekers are cheaper for additional squad members. Which means squads of five and exactly the same cost, and squads of ten sky seekers are cheaper than the hussar equivalent. You are losing hit and run, which is quite a helpful rule. But gaining scout and the oracle array.

 

Interesting.

 

Cadmus

Edited September 18, 2020 by Cadmus Tyro

[Varyn]

I'd already been meaning to do my large bunch of chaos bikers as Iron Warriors, this confirms it. Anyone know of tutorials for converting MkIII to riding stances?

I also think I have the old Obliterator assault cannon bit knocking around which would be ideal for the snub rotor cannon - does the full squad have to be so upgraded? Do they get any other options outside of the Sgt?

I made some outriders a while ago for my XXth Effrit:

They use old SM bikes, with a few upgrades. Mkiii torso with groin armour removed and kromlech biker legs. The plastic raven wing kit has arms that are passable for Mkii/iii.

Cadmus

I forgot about these guys! it shows that with a bit of effort the 40k bikes can work very well in 30k

[Ficinus]

The reason the Sky Seekers get cheaper is probably because you're going to be sacrificing the entire squad's shooting to use the Oracle array. 3 dudes can give a +1 to hit just as well as 10. Edited September 18, 2020 by Ficinus

[Monkeychunks]

That's very true, but does not address the underlying issue that they seem to be much better than Hussars in most combat roles. Even if you ignore the Oracle Array entirely, which is a whole other aspect of the unit and arguably its main selling point, they function as a better combat unit than Hussars IMO.

 

As a direct 1:1 comparison:

Skyseekers

• Scout
• Deep Strike
• Upgraded gun is cheaper and has 30" range
• Can exist as a 3-man squad
• 5pts cheaper per model (Past 5), 10pts cheaper if upgraded to guns

Hussars

• Hit & Run
• Can take an Apothecary
• Lower model for TLoS (Presumably)

 

All other aspects are identical. Things like Jinking, melee output, Meltabombs etc. can be done just as effectively with Skyseekers. The issue is not that Skyseeker utility trumps Hussar combat, it's that Skyseeker combat is almost identical and then it gets a big dollop of utility on top.

If you are not making use of Hit & Run, I'd say that Skyseekers are almost objectively a better option. If you are able to acquire Hit & Run through other means, such as a Chogorian Brotherhood (Arguably the place where Hussars should be most welcomed), again they are bringing nothing to the table.

And this is quite apart from the conversation that even if they do have a niche, is it a niche worth paying 30-40pts a head for? While I recognise 40k is a different animal, I think Marine Bikers came in under 20pts during 7E and that was with the option for embedded weapons.

 

Basically I don't think the points are appropriate, I don't think they have a niche, and they are one USR away from being made redundant by the unit literally on the next page.

[Nomadic Thunder]

On the subject of legions utilising hussars, the Ist might do a good job with a firewing scion and hit and run meaning you can get some more mileage out of hatred and they get a +1 to hit with their blades and if they’re synergising with a stasis blast from another squad shooting then they could do rather well as a mobile nuisance squad to tie things up and move off afterwards.

[Dhar'Neth]

[Cadmus Tyro]

Well, it depends how much value you place on the “hit and run” USR. It does make Hussars pretty good at repositioning for objective grabs, holding an enemy unit in place one turn and then moving on the next to another part of the board. Adding something like a legion champion here further increases their utility.

 

Weigh that against deep strike and scout (which only really serve to give you flexible deployment options, both prevent you charging after using) and an ability that improves shooting whilst exposing the unit to return fire and CC.

 

It’s advantageous to keep the seekers at a small squad size, neither unit really should be upgrading their ranged weapons. Hussars will perform well in larger squad sizes.

 

I feel they both have quite defined roles, Hussars are CC harassment unit, capable of hindering enemy movement without being pinned down. Seekers are a support unit, that should remain out of combat skirting the enemy front line.

 

Cadmus

[IamAlphariusxx20]

I wouldn't take large squads of hussars unless you're night lords, it's no cheaper and you get a bunch of the output from the sergeant's weapon. But msu hussars do seem pretty handy with hit and run.

[Cadmus Tyro]

When I said large, I meant larger than a three man seeker squad. Yes, there is a definite balance between survivability and utility, especially from the perspective of the squads footprint and sergeant load out.

 

I think playtesting the unit will give a better idea of the optimum squad size.

 

Cadmus

[Gorgoff]

I wouldn't take large squads of hussars unless you're night lords

Or World Eaters.

Or Raven Guard.

Or White Scars.

;)

[IamAlphariusxx20]

I mean, for all those three legions there's no reason at all to take one squad of ten over two squads of five. You still charge just as furiously with two squads. I guess if you're low on troop slots, but I always run out of elites and have plenty of space for troops

[Ficinus]

A big squad is cheaper if you plan on throwing Apothecaries in them, so there is some reason.

[Gorgoff]

A big squad is cheaper if you plan on throwing Apothecaries in them, so there is some reason.

That, and it doesn't just bounce of enemy units. MSU tactics usually don't work in HH and especially for bike units with boltguns. Staying power is another good reason not taking only 5.