auspex tactics: normal bikers vs outriders

[aura_enchanted]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMnaIAq_znY

 

auespex tactics has done the math hammer for the outrider. heres the bad news and the side news for people not wanting to watch/listen through

 

- outriders really are worse then normal bikers in the shooting phase, the melee combat is where the outriders tend to excel. the above being said the lack of power weapons means that the potential melee damage of the outriders is stunted and falls off significantly against enemy elite infantry or vehicles and really should be limited to more rank and file units or other bikes.

 

- the black knights further make the case for the outrider bad because the black knight plasma talon wipes the floor with their twin bolt rifles and the corvus hammer and improved baseline makes the outrider kind of niche

 

- inceptors are better then both in a comparison of boltguns when all three would normally be in range their assault bolters do better then both

 

-the attack bike is only slightly less niche, the multi melta gives it more utility applications bt its bolter configuration is the worst of all 4

 

- the lack of ravenwing keyword at present further hampers the outriders

 

largely the outriders benefit other forces such as space wolves, white scars, and other codex marines. ravenwing for the moment get the least out of outriders. and after keywords are finally resolved they are still less useful then the hype might otherwise allow and in fact in a shooting fight the outrider is the inferior option

 

inceptors are actually really in a good spot and more people should probably be taking them over attack bikes

Edited August 3, 2020 by aura_enchanted

[templarphoenix]

Thats the problem of primaris, utility. All their units can only doing one thing, outperform the old boys for sure, but that's it. Lack of special weapons (phobos units' sarge cant even take power weapons lol) means if they meet the things they cant kill and they are in trouble.

 

I had a 2k game with all primaris units vs ultramarine, he has a tax hq and 50 terminators (mixed shooting, assault and different armour type), I am dead in turn 3, even doctrines cant save me....

 

I lost hope for primaris after that game, they are shelved... will stick to ravenwing/deathwing for a while.

[WrathOfTheLion]

The outriders in their current configuration may not be there yet. I plan on continuing with just traditional Ravenwing units for now.

 

I use Primaris, but I don't only use them. I like using both classic and primaris, as I don't really have a strong affinity for the Primaris and don't really have an inclination to field pure lists of them.

Edited August 4, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Angel of Solitude]

I'm not entirely surprised by this conclusion, but I guess context is key. Yes, a Ravenwing Bike Squad could outshoot an Outrider squad, but you're paying an additional 10 points for each plasma gun, and you're also sacrificing melee ability. Ravenwing Bike Squads are hit and run squads, using their distance and speed to cover a large amount of the battlefield. The volume of plasma you can bring means that you can go hunting for larger, more elite targets. 

 

Outriders, on the other hand, want to scream into enemy troop formations - probably from reserve too. Bring them on in turn 2, and all of a sudden your opponent has 12 T5 wounds to worry about. You're at AP-2 in the Tactical Doctrine, which will deny most T3 troops an armour save. You're potentially in charge range too, which if you make it, then gives you 19 attacks. I see this as a huge distraction that your opponent has to deal with immediately, which gives you the opportunity to consolidate another threat elsewhere on the field.

 

The comparison with Black Knights is an interesting one. Being equipped with plasma makes them far better Elite killers, but makes them overkill for hordes. The Corvus Hammer doesn't necessary have a better profile, because while you get to do D3 damage on a 6+, the trade off is that you only make one take. Better perhaps at Elite, multi-damage units, but not so much horde troop units.

 

Regarding the Ravenwing keyword, absolutely this makes a massive difference. The stratagems, auras, ancients and warlord traits synergise very well across a Ravenwing army, and suffice to say if the Outriders don't get the Ravenwing keyword, then I don't think I'll play them. 

[UtariOnzo]

We already know they will have the keyword from multiple explicit references, it’s really a question of when. If they’re not erreta’d or faq’d in, it might be a case of waiting till the new codex and DA suppliment comes out. I’ll be gladly converting and painting up two squads, but I won’t be fielding them till they finally get the keyword. Same with the bladeguard. Edited August 4, 2020 by UtariOnzo

[Master Sheol]

It's hard to say now how the Outriders will perform without having the definitive kit and datasheet

Maybe in future they will have options we still dont know about

[Skywrath]

It's hard to say now how the Outriders will perform without having the definitive kit and datasheet

Maybe in future they will have options we still dont know about

 

Here is hoping they get the plasma talon treatment!

[WrathOfTheLion]

That could make sense to add plasma to the outriders. In AoD, the outriders have access to plasma guns.

It would give them more design room to do something else later as a Ravenwing elite.