9th ed. Chapter Tactics

[Aeri]

Hi everybody!

 

so the GW teaser Video showed, that chapter Tactics for DA will be (among others) a +1 to hit if stationary.

What do you think about this change?

Do you think DA will be in a good spot considering the new missions?

[Berzul]

Well, I don't know...

 

Game area is smaller

Terrain is denser

LoS blocking terrain is more prevalent

There is no overwatch against charges

There are reserves coming everywhere

 

... This an edition that looks like it might just make it all about mobility.

 

And we get a chapter tactic that incentivizes staying still... In an army where 1/3 is constantly on the move, 1/3 is deepstriking all over the place, and jus the last 1/3 is really free to sit back and get that bonus.

 

It really is great to get that +1. With a master in there, you are practically auto-hitting.

 

But it seem to go agains the design of the edition.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Good Chapter tactic but not game breaking. Like Berzul pointed out, due to Los and etc, the army won't stay put to benefit fully from the tactic.

But if will be rewarding for the player that can think ahead and have it on those crucial moments.

[bigtrouble]

Will be good if you can set up overlapping fields of fire. I forget, did they say you can use this +1 if you have a rule that allows you to act as if you didn’t move, or does it actually mean has not moved?

[RayJ]

Stoic Prosecution will be very handy for us after this change. It's also good for units that can get into position quickly and are durable, as you might not need to move as much if you're holding for a primary objective.

[Aeri]

I started my DA Primarius force with all the new stealthy goodies and I think this is where the chapter Tactics will shine.

 

- snipers that can shoot through walls at bs2+? Check

- walkers and marines already on site on turn one, ready to remain stationary at the chosen position? Check

-Plasma not overheating if stationary? Check

 

For me (although I have not played a single 9th ed. Game yet) the DA chapter Tactics appear to be useful and very fluffy.

I like them.

 

Does the +1 also mean that infiltrators get extra shots on 5s and 6s?

Edited August 6, 2020 by Aeri

[Isual]

I started my DA Primarius force with all the new stealthy goodies and I think this is where the chapter Tactics will shine.

 

- snipers that can shoot through walls at bs2+? Check

- walkers and marines already on site on turn one, ready to remain stationary at the chosen position? Check

-Plasma not overheating if stationary? Check

 

For me (although I have not played a single 9th ed. Game yet) the DA chapter Tactics appear to be useful and very fluffy.

I like them.

 

Does the +1 also mean that infiltrators get extra shots on 5s and 6s?

 

 

Didn't they change overheat to natural 1s? (may be wrong here, could have been just rumors)

 

Edit: same for Infiltrators, at the moment it says "an unmodified hit roll of 6"

Edited August 6, 2020 by Isual

[Angel of Solitude]

- snipers that can shoot through walls at bs2+? Check

 

 

Are you thinking Eliminators? If so, then following the most recent FAQ, it would seem that they can no longer shoot at targets that they cannot see. 

 

Executioner round, Ritual of the Damned entry:

 

This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearer, and can target a CHARACTER unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit" 

 

Latest Ritual of the Damned FAQ:

 

*Page 47 – Eliminators, bolt sniper rifle Executioner round, Abilities Change the first sentence to read: ‘Each time you select a target for this weapon, you can ignore the Look Out, Sir rule.’

 

Notice that this new first sentence makes no mention of being able to target units not visible to the bearer...thus no more shooting through walls. 

 

Regarding the Chapter Tactics change, I like that a Chapter Tactic provides you with a pretty decent benefit, but also makes you think about how to structure and deploy your army in a way that maximises its impact. My first thought is that you could create a really powerful backfield firebase, with perhaps some dreadnoughts for firepower and some Aggressors / Judiciar for counter charge. But equally, with something like this you could instead create a semi-mobile firebase that pushes forwards to the middle, and then just sits and dominates the midfield. 

 

Interestingly, this change in chapter tactics can essentially be recreated with two different Litanies. Recitation of Focus essentially does the same job within a 6" bubble, while Stoic Prosecution allows you to benefit from the chapter tactic within a 6" bubble. 

[Brother Bahram]

 

 

Regarding the Chapter Tactics change, I like that a Chapter Tactic provides you with a pretty decent benefit, but also makes you think about how to structure and deploy your army in a way that maximises its impact. My first thought is that you could create a really powerful backfield firebase, with perhaps some dreadnoughts for firepower and some Aggressors / Judiciar for counter charge. But equally, with something like this you could instead create a semi-mobile firebase that pushes forwards to the middle, and then just sits and dominates the midfield. 

 

Interestingly, this change in chapter tactics can essentially be recreated with two different Litanies. Recitation of Focus essentially does the same job within a 6" bubble, while Stoic Prosecution allows you to benefit from the chapter tactic within a 6" bubble. 

 

I think it's important when you build your army, that you think "what role shall this unit have?"

Baseline defenders to secure the nearest objectives - then this is perfect!

[Aeri]

Also: don't we have a litany to always count as stationary?

As the CT also applies in melee, this is devastating!

Chaplain on Bike + Black Knights could also be lethal again.

[aura_enchanted]

deimos laser destroyer is an incredible tank for us, set it up in cover with a techmarine and dare the enemy to cross its field of fire, maybe tag team it with a rhino primaris from legends instead like im going too and watch as the enemy suddenly has an entire lane of the map they cant really traverse without heavy damage being inflicted between an orbital bombard and the laser destroyer array. and all for 275pts. thats not bad

[clanfield]

no casualty's to attrition ....... yea totaly worthless

[G8Keeper]

deimos laser destroyer is an incredible tank for us, set it up in cover with a techmarine and dare the enemy to cross its field of fire, maybe tag team it with a rhino primaris from legends instead like im going too and watch as the enemy suddenly has an entire lane of the map they cant really traverse without heavy damage being inflicted between an orbital bombard and the laser destroyer array. and all for 275pts. thats not bad

 

You really love that thing don't you? 

[Berzul]

Unless you are fighting a morale bomb, which is a tactic that you tend to see very little of in regulsr games, morale is a no-phase for us. Specially in a primaris army, where squads tend to be smaller. Even more so since we have high Ld, and roll twice on the check.

 

I see the atrittion side of the chapter tactic as a nice little piece of lore and fluff. Flavourful, but in the end, mostly useless.

[G8Keeper]

I think I'm right here.... The +1 to hit will work on the company banner? Meaning when we get an attack after death (if stationary in the movement phase) we hit on 2's? Thus making the chapter ancient a little less worth taking but the company ancient more efficient. Obviously ignoring minuses to hit. Edited August 6, 2020 by G8Keeper

[aura_enchanted]

 

deimos laser destroyer is an incredible tank for us, set it up in cover with a techmarine and dare the enemy to cross its field of fire, maybe tag team it with a rhino primaris from legends instead like im going too and watch as the enemy suddenly has an entire lane of the map they cant really traverse without heavy damage being inflicted between an orbital bombard and the laser destroyer array. and all for 275pts. thats not bad

 

You really love that thing don't you? 

 

yes its my precious little doom canon, its seriously amazing, sometime you should sit down and just do some mock shooting with it against hard targets on the table. in one battle i had it kill 5 thunderwolf cavalry, 1 every turn and this slowed them up so much, suddenly charges were out of range or didnt have the impact they were going to otherwise have. he 1 tapped njal stormcaller.

 

in another bout he gave phobos shrike a death out of dragon ball z

 

and in another he, my deredeo and my excelsior layed waste to every drop pod and razorback in a double gladius strikeforce. his marines spent the entire game crawling over their own dead just to get to me

 

i am a firm believer that every man woman and child should at loeast try one for themselves haha

[ValourousHeart]

Hi everybody!

 

so the GW teaser Video showed, that chapter Tactics for DA will be (among others) a +1 to hit if stationary.

What do you think about this change?

Do you think DA will be in a good spot considering the new missions?

 

This could be really interesting for us.

I feel it combines well with our Devastator Doctrine, +6 inch Range, better AP and +1 to hit.

In 8th didn't need to keep a master next to our firebase units because the re-rolls were redundant.

With this change, I think our firebase units will still be fine without a babysitter, but it won't be redundant if we include one.

 

Plus I find that there are turns when even my speeders hold position.

Usually about turn 3 or 4 when they have gotten into good positions surrounding my opponent, and just need to pick off the stragglers.

A +1 to hit at that time would be a welcome bonus just to help speed things up.

 

And it will be even more welcome bonus for my TML speeder unit, who often get into position even earlier.

Going from 3+ stationary / 4+ moving in 8th to 2+ / 3+ in 9th is huge, even without factoring in character auras.

 

There is no overwatch against charges

 

Not quite accurate.

 

Terrain with the Defensible trait (page 262) gives infantry units the option to Hold Steady.

Hold Steady gives a bonus to any Overwatch (page 227).

 

Interestingly enough, Hold Steady doesn't reference page 255 which is where you can find the Fire Overwatch stratagem.

But the Fire Overwatch stratagem does reference Overwatch page 227 in the same way that Hold Steady references it.

 

Which indicates that both Fire Overwatch strat and Hold Steady part of Defensible seem to acknowledge this opening line from Overwatch Page 227.

"Certain rules enable units to fire Overwatch..."

[Berzul]

 

There is no overwatch against charges

 

Not quite accurate.

 

Terrain with the Defensible trait (page 262) gives infantry units the option to Hold Steady.

Hold Steady gives a bonus to any Overwatch (page 227).

 

Interestingly enough, Hold Steady doesn't reference page 255 which is where you can find the Fire Overwatch stratagem.

But the Fire Overwatch stratagem does reference Overwatch page 227 in the same way that Hold Steady references it.

 

Which indicates that both Fire Overwatch strat and Hold Steady part of Defensible seem to acknowledge this opening line from Overwatch Page 227.

"Certain rules enable units to fire Overwatch..."

 

Perhaps down the line GW will start filling up the game with exceptions to the no overwatch rule of the game. If tendency is to be followed, they will most likely take the full overwatch rule for the T'au and will start applying it to new units over time to make them "special" in some way, or provide them with "special rules". GW is big on that. Making a blank slate status for the game, and then start giving out exceptions to the general rule until the exception is almost the rule, then the edition resets.

 

But, for now, regardless of where the unit stands, they still need a CP expenditure to fire overwatch. Which means you will NOT see much overwatch in play, if any, from many armies.

 

So, for now, it is the state of the game that overwatch is the unlikely exception, not the general rule.

[solarisqc]

I don't know what to think about the new chapter tactic.

 

Pro:

1. It help melee unit that get charge or on 2nd turn of a fight
2. It make master usefull for reroll 1
3. anything that let us reroll is more usefull when it apply

Con:

1. we are more affect by cumulative -1
2. Don't let you reroll 1 when you want to get a natural 6 (sniper, overwatch, etc.)
3. useless for overwatch because it's only on unmodified roll of 6
4. Weird interaction with the Defensible terrain trait (p.262)

• Hold steady say ''any Overwatch (pg 227) attack made by that unit this phase will score hit on rolls of 5+ '' maybe out tactic can help but this will probably be FAQ and it's only 1 per turn because it's a stratagem.
• Set to defend is useless if you have not move except against unit that have -2 or more to hit them.

 

Plasma specific:

We have 2 scenario here,

1. overheat only on natural 1: in this case our chapter tactic is useless and make plasma as dangerous as anyone else to use. The only bonus we have is WFTDA and it's a stratagem so it's limit to 1 unit per turn IF we keep this stratagem.
2. overheat rule stay the same: In this case our chapter tactic realy shine for plasma.

 

Overall, i think the new chapter tactic is alot better for any unit that fight, worst for any unit that only shot. And it's realy bad for plasma heavy list. If they limit Master to 1 per detachement they will be close to unusable. Again, GW give us a fluffy rules but with our 3 wings structure, the impact will depend alot on what you use. Some will like it, some will hate it and other will not see any difference in the gameplay.

[plasmaspam]

And we get a chapter tactic that incentivizes staying still... In an army where 1/3 is constantly on the move, 1/3 is deepstriking all over the place, and jus the last 1/3 is really free to sit back and get that bonus.

 

 

Killbox - use the fast-movers and the deep-strikers to bring your targets into the sights of the Devastators, Stalkers and Heavy Incinerators and wave bye-bye.

[Shadowseer]

Anyone in this thread actually played a game of 9th with Dark Angels (or a game of 9th at all)?

 

A lot of theorycrafting, but I would be quite interested to hear from people's experiences.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Shadowseer

[Berzul]

Anyone in this thread actually played a game of 9th with Dark Angels (or a game of 9th at all)?

 

A lot of theorycrafting, but I would be quite interested to hear from people's experiences.

I have played one, so far. It's hard with the whole pandemic thing.

 

I used the 8th edition chapter tactic, because the other one isn't official yet.

 

All in all? I fell into the habit and played my tacticals quite stationary, which in turn costed me the game. I lost 29 to 48. You DO need to move more with your troops. Castling down can be effective, but killing things alone is not worth much.

[CaptainCaveman87]

Ive had a few games incorporating units from the Indomitus boxset and gone 4 wins - 1 loss, which I'm very pleased with.

 

Assault intercessors do work when boosted by Azrael, Asmodai and Gene Wrought Might. Especially T3 when in Assault Doc. One game they tanked assault from 30 blood letters only to murdinate them in return and then go on to ruin a bloodthirster day.

 

Also with a battalion, azrael and his Warlord trait can easily get 20+ CP through out a game which is just insane.

 

Captain

[solarisqc]

You can't get more than 1 CP per turn, with 9ed max at 5 turn, Brillant strategist can give 5 CP max

[Berzul]

Well, again.

 

In my one and only battle so far in 9th, I had two 5-man squads of tactical marines next to Asmodai. I constantly failed my litanies, so I was incentivized to stay put, a bit.

 

Deployment had me on the long end of the board, behind a large network of pipes, which gave me decent cover. Since my enemy was moving rather slowly towards me with his infantry (even despite the use of a chaos rhino), I had everything aligned for me to opt to just stand still and fire.

 

This proved to be a very BAD strategy. Although I did some damage, in the end, the points gap was pretty wide, and it cost me the game. Had I been moving from the get go, I could have contested more objectives.

 

This is NOT an edition to castle up