Craftworlds 9th ed + Ynnari

[Prot]

I have played quite a few of my armies in 9th, and feel fairly comfortable with many of them so far. Along the way I thought of my eldar many times for comparison and would often compare strategies, and similar units.

 

For example, I now believe that flyers are 'okay' in 9th but the Eldar ones are grossly overcosted. So much so that even though I love the models, I don't think you can take them. Meanwhile my Admech Archeopters are just amazing, and even the dreaded Deathwatch Corvus is a very solid performer, and transport/bomber at respectable 200 points. 

 

With this knowledge and 20-ish games under my belt, I've decided to revisit my Eldar. I still feel they are hit very hard by 9th. Not only are the best units harder to attain through detachment penalties, some things like Ynnari just feel awkward.

 

Pre-amble babble out of the way, let's just talk about what I think Eldar need to do better and maybe some unexpected things that can work. 

 

- Number one is board control. It's a huge issue for an army that is typically quite dodgy and not very resilient.

 

 + Others have tried Dire Avenger spam with transports and Asurmen, but I haven't seen it really do very well.

 

 + For me I'm actually going to be relying on my Wraiths from 8th edition. Slow, and needy of support, but not as easy to shift. I'm looking at a squad of 5-8 on the ground.

 

 - Number two for me is blocking out/protecting home field objectives/deploy zones. I'm on the fence about how many detachments to take. I think heavy support is seriously needed. But trying to be responsible I'm leaning on Wraithlords with new move and shoot abilities from 9th ed.

 

- Next issue is forward pressure/speed. This is a tough one. Fly being nerfed has hurt this army as much as any other, but I'm still looking at Shining Spears, and (drumroll please) the Yncarne. I just really want to use my model, but it's really hard to justify. It's extremely pricey at 290 points! But it can be very offensive, and plop around your opponent's units at key times.

 

- Fire Support is tough. Eldar have a good number of units, but getting those Heavy Slots AND Ynnari is looking impossible if you want higher command points. 

 

  + Vibro cannons took a hit with the +1/-1 modifier restriction.

  + Night Spinners took too heavy a hit at 145 points! Fly is nerfed. We see the Admech super Skorpius with missiles, indirect 2D weapons, and 9 S4 shots. This seems crazy to me....I don't know what they were thinking hitting the Night Spinners so hard.

  + Falcons. I don't like these anymore. They really came into their own while it was easy to take multiple detachments. I'd rather blow the points on Wave Serpents.

  + With Falcons going, Dark Reapers kind of took a hit here. It's hard to justify them now. 

  + I'm looking at the fast attacks now... so perhaps Hornets???

 

 

Any additional thoughts from people that have managed to get some eldar practice in would be greatly appreciated. 

[Karhedron]

The big problem I see so far is that our ObjSec units are so fragile making taking and controlling Objectives a challenge. Killing any of our Troop units to push them off an Objective and stop us scoring is not hard for most armies. We don't have tough Troops like Intercessors and we can't afford to play the horde game like IG or Orks.

 

Wraith units do look promising on paper but a single surviving Tactical Marine in their vicinity will be enough to stop them scoring which could be problematic.

 

Given how heavily we rely on our Heavy Support units, I think we may have to bite the bullet and accept that the 3CP price of running a Patrol + Spearhead may be one we have to pay to get enough of the slots we need.

[Dulahan]

The recent FAQ fixed Shadow Spectre prices. So that is an interesting change and might be worth experimenting with.

[Maxxreloaded]

Not played 9th Ed. Yet , though reading with interest and watching Bat rep’s in the hope of softening the learning curve.

 

Where are the new points detailed? I’m obviously not looking properly

[Karhedron]

They are in the 2020 Munitorum Field Manual. Some of the changes are quite depressing. Fire Dragons cost almost as much as the new Primaris Eradicators but have 1 T3 wound instead of 3 T5 wounds, half the range and no rule to double-shoot.

 

On the positive side, it looks like power swords are getting +1S which may mean Banshees can now actually do some damage.

[Mordas]

well you assume all power swords are getting the +1S, may just be imperium weapons at the moment (though I certainly hope not).

[Karhedron]

With the news that Marines are going to 2W for Firsborn as well as Primaris, I can see LOTS of Dark Reapers in the future. I really think that the 3CP price of a Patrol + Spearhead may be one we have to pay for the time being just to get enough big guns on the table to compete.

 

Vypers in the FA slots are also a possibility and they have got a bit of a buff since their heavy weapons will not longer be shooting at -1 when they move.

 

The downside is that our troops are looking even more lackluster as shurican weaponry has just had its effectiveness halved vs Marines. With little offense and little sticking power, grabbing Objectives and holding them will be tough. I think speed and firepower will be the key. We need to bring overwhelming force to bear against each Objective at a time and then move something fast but reasonable durable (like a Wave Serpent onto it) As long as the enemy has no Troops nearby, we should be able to hold it while we focus on the next Objective.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Karhedron

[ThePenitentOne]

Okay, haven't played 9th yet, so think of this not as advice but food for thought.

 

First, how many heavy slots do you need? 

 

One squad of 9 Reapers instead of 3 x 3 or 2 x 5. I say 9 to avoid the full effect of blast. War Walkers and support weapons can also be taken 3 per unit.

So with the 5 heavy slots in a brigade, how does 18 Reapers, 6 War Walkers and 3 support weapons do? I don't have the new points, so I can't cost it, but if that works, no need need to go all "patrol plus spearhead"; I'm all about CP, so at 2k and above, the brigade is where I'm at. Forgetting the MSU standard is key to winning the CP race in high point games.

 

Speaking of CP, have you considered strategic reserves as a way to 1) protect particularly vulnerable units from the alpha strike and 2) assist with the claiming and or clearing of objectives by coming at them from different angles?

 

Fly took a hit, but Aircraft got better, so consider them and how to use their ability to leave and return.

 

Next lets talk about set-up- probably should have started with this. You're probably a pretty experienced player, so I'm sure you're already doing this right, but let me share my rules of terrain. Dense and Obscuring are the most important types. The minimum board sizes, for the purposes of terrain deployment, are best thought of as 15 x 15 squares- I know it isn't exact because of the stupid 44" side, but that's so close to 45 (which is of course, divisible by 15) that it almost doesn't matter.

 

So at 2k points, you're looking at 3 x 4 of these squares. Ideally, I want every single one of those squares to have one terrain feature that is either Dense or Obscuring. Each of those squares can additionally have smaller obstacle terrain for Heavy and/ or Light cover. Now obviously, you aren't going to get this, but push hard for it. 

 

Next, consider terrain/ objective interactions. I'm a Crusade player, so I do Agendas, not secondaries, and I forget exactly how much freedom you have when placing objectives- the point is, you want some of the objectives to be in Dense, some to be in Obscuring and still others to only be protected by Light and/ or Heavy cover obstacles. This can be achieved by either cleverly placing terrain where objectives are likely to fall, or by strategically placing the objective markers in the terrain if the mission allows that. Also, it's best for you if the protected ones are closest to you while the least protected are closer to your opponent, but that can be harder to achieve.

 

The final piece of the set up puzzle is to consider how much more than just Obsec you need to hold those objectives, based on how much protection is available from terrain. One large obsec squad, or 2 MSU of obsec might be fine holding an objective protected by Obscuring terrain, whereas you might send some Aspect Warriors and a buffing character along with the obsec when the objective only has Light and/ or Heavy cover.

 

This leads to another point about objectives; yes, our obsec units are glass. That's why they aren't the only thing you send to sit on an objective. You send other, more dangerous stuff with them. Your opponent has to choose between taking out your obsec, in which case you smash their face with the tough stuff, or they take out your tough stuff, in which case, you keep your obsec and then bring in reserves or fast units to counter attack, and then the opponent has to choose again.

 

Finally, if claiming and holding objectives is going to be too hard against a particular army (and it might be sometimes, or even often) just play to deny your opponent. 

 

Like I said, it's all theory- I freely admit I haven't played yet, and as I said, I don't know points- as a Crusade player, they don't matter enough to spend $50 CAD on a book the size of a tv guide whose only other benefit is 18 missions I'll never play because I personally think that tournaments aren't anywhere near as fun as story driven linked games with friends and until there's a Covid vaccine tournaments are downright stupid.

 

(Sorry about the rant)

 

Hope that helps somewhat.

Edited August 15, 2020 by ThePenitentOne

[Karhedron]

The thing with Aspect Warriors is that MSU works particularly well with them since Exarch powers are free and built in. 3x3 Reapers get 2 more Exarchs than a 1x9-man squad. Morale is an issue of course.

 

Perhaps I am underestimating our Troops but 6 squads of any of our Troop units seems like a pretty heavy tax to pay for a Brigade. Maybe feasible if you are playing 2000+ point games but not for anything smaller IMHO.

 

Please note I am not complaining that we are not competitive in 9th edition. But our strength in 8th was using our speed and firepower to table opponents. That is not going to work so well in 9th due to the way continuous scoring works so some adjustment will be necessary.

[Prot]

Hehe... 6 troops just isn't happening for me. I actually hate our troops. Again I see people pumping up Dire Avengers but the troops generally just don't hang around, and don't do much that the rest of the army doesn't already inherently do. 

 

I'm finding it's all bumper cars so far, or throwing speed into your opponent's heavy hitters. 

 

Ynarri has a few tricks. Perhaps it's just I'm also finding the Psychic phase is so incredibly important to the army function, and those great powers don't affect Ynarri. 

 

The Yncarne is actually a great unit for 9th, but at his whooping points cost, and the fact it's so hard to get him in a list... I haven't used him. I have a list where I try a patrol with him, but again... it's annoying to increase troops. 

[Purifying Tempest]

I've played a couple of games with the Yncarne, and he has definitely been the difference maker.  I use Howling Banshees to run in and tie things up, and then teleport in the Yncarne when they are run off the table the next turn.  One time I just dropped a bunch of mortal wounds on the opposition with psychic powers and then summoned him away again afterwards... the other he just fought on the front lines to allow my Spectres + Farseer to wear out weak flanks.

 

We don't play super competitive, but I've noticed the the Yncarne has been a big problem for my opponents so far.

 

As for troops :(  I'm only contemplating bringing a squad of Dire Avengers to unlock the Patrol Detachment for my second detachment and not costing more CP.  The troops just have no staying power or ability to affect the mission right now.

[Prot]

Thanks for the feedback. Even if you don't play super competitive it is good to hear how it's going. 

 

I think a second detachment is pretty big because I think the Eldar part of it is in dire need of the good psychic HQ's to remain even mildly competitive.  

 

I like Banshees with Yncarne as well. In 8th I brought two 5 man banshee squads usually. (I also very much like Shining Spears as Ynarri, however cost can be prohibitive.)

 

I'd love to pull mine out but I still think the cost is too high. Right now it would probably ruin my current list since I'm going for lots of vehicles on the table, but it might be worth it in a cheaper army style.