Bloodlines- Warhammer Crime

[caladancid]

I want Chris Wraight to stop writing everything else and immediately write two more books on Agusto Zidarov.

 

If you have ever wanted to know what normal life looks like in the Imperium, at least in a quasi-hive like Varangantua, this is the novel for you.  They don't even really believe Genestealers are real!  This is the gritty crime novel I didn't know I needed, but now I know I need more.

 

I have always loved Dan Abnett's novels that cover normal life.  The Ghost novels do this, Pariah does it well, and so do both Eisenhorn and Ravenor.  But, Bloodlines does it on a whole different level.  The super powered aliens, Astartes, or Chaos spawn are always just waiting on the other side of those novels.  Bloodlines's villains don't have a thing to do with anything other than greed.

 

The level of detail with which Wraight describes Urgeyena is at times almost overwhelming, but always stops just before the detail washes away the story.  I felt like I was reading a great hard-boiled detective novel that just happened to be in the Warhammer universe.  It is really that good.  Get it now, so we get many more of these.

 

Also, don't read this spoiler- it will really take away a surprise I did not see coming.

 

ZIDAROV IS A CHAOS CULTIST

[b1soul]

Colour me titillated

[DukeLeto69]

Was buying this book anyway as been wishing for “domestic 40k” for years but...I was THAT close to opening the spoiler but unusually for me the willpower kicked in. Gonna read this cold!

[Beren]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that he is a chaos cultists. There's certainly potential for the sect to be suborned that way, but other than the use of the word 'Serpent' there's nothing particularly chaotic about it. It's a large galaxy, and there are plenty of stranger manifestations of belief in the God-Emperor (including ones that are descended from Goge Vandire's ecclesiarchy.

 

It's also worth noting that it is implied that this takes place two years after the formation of the Citrix Maledictum, and none of the characters have any idea what happened. They know that two years ago all warp lanes just shut down, and even though they're up again the warp going ships are still struggling, and offworld trade is still struggling. Out of everything it's only that last bit that really affects the planet, and ties into the events covered into the book.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Beren

[caladancid]

Was buying this book anyway as been wishing for “domestic 40k” for years but...I was THAT close to opening the spoiler but unusually for me the willpower kicked in. Gonna read this cold!

 

 

Be strong! And then come back here to discuss it!

[caladancid]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that he is a chaos cultists. There's certainly potential for the sect to be suborned that way, but other than the use of the word 'Serpent' there's nothing particularly chaotic about it. It's a large galaxy, and there are plenty of stranger manifestations of belief in the God-Emperor (including ones that are descended from Goge Vandire's ecclesiarchy.

 

It's also worth noting that it is implied that this takes place two years after the formation of the Citrix Maledictum, and none of the characters have any idea what happened. They know that two years ago all warp lanes just shut down, and even though they're up again the warp going ships are still struggling, and offworld trade is still struggling. Out of everything it's only that last bit that really affects the planet, and ties into the events covered into the book.

 

I thought the very careful way of discussing the Cicatrix Maledictum was brilliant.  It bothered me at first, because in other novels (other Wraight novels!) it is apparently viewable with the naked eye.  But, it makes sense on a planet like Alecto that you wouldn't be able to see it clearly.

[DukeLeto69]

Obv I have not read this yet but it will jump to to of reading pile when I get it...

 

I love the idea that most (all) normal ppl in Imperium know very little compared to those the book usually focuses on and us readers. That is why the Horror line is compelling cos WE know it is the warp/chaos talking/manipulating to them!

 

I like it that even when you add together the billions of IG plus navy, Astartes, Mechancus, Sororitas etc plus merchant navy and Rogue Traders etc the number of people who have actually travelled through the warp is still less than 1% of human population.

 

Normal folk just shouldn’t have that knowledge. We know the Inquisition and Grey Knights will purge an entire planet for witnessing daemons. I think that sometimes gets forgotten in some BL fiction.

 

Actually that was one of the elements I so loved about Pariah by Dan Abnett - seeing everything through Beta’s eyes where we know more than her worked v nicely.

 

We all read so many stories from pov of Space Marines or Inquisitors that all know the truth of the universe.

 

Same with in-universe knowledge of HH. Loved the Vaults of Terra book by Wraight (again) where Cowl (I think) cannot understand why there are statues of more than nine Primarchs = lovely bit of colour!

Edited August 10, 2020 by DukeLeto69

[Petitioner's City]

 

Same with in-universe knowledge of HH. Loved the Vaults of Terra book by Wraight (again) where Cowl (I think) cannot understand why there are statues of more than nine Primarchs = lovely bit of colour!

And that is as an inquisitor, who I think we often imbue with too much knowledge - almost as player surrogates. That lack of real knowledge from some of the cliche "most informed people in the setting" is really necessary for players to understand - no one knows in setting what we as readers outside the setting know. It is something which the marketing sometimes forgets, and definitely what we find hard to imagine, for sure. Dembski-Bowden, Wraight, French, Abnett and others really emphasise the lack of knowledge or scattered nature of knowledge in the setting - and I wish players and readers more easily embraced that, rather than assuming omniscience of the part of the marines and inquisition and high lords and high magi.

 

But it is also important to understand that marketing lore (ie codex lore) also flattens what would be the complexities of real life quite dramatically - while codices might emphasise the super secrecy of daemonic knowledge and the silencing of those with knowledge, it will be more variegated in reality - the inquisition, the high lords' agents, the grey knights and the stormtroopers and the iron fist of authority won't be everywhere, nor will the application or interpretation of magisterium be universally the same.

 

Ultimately anything to complicate, make more nuanced and remove the top down, omniscient, and ultimately codex-driven view of the 41st millenium is good. Something more akin to the nuance of the FW books and more recently the modern Necromunda project.

[caladancid]

Yeah there is a very funny/ironic/sad part of the novel where Zidarov goes to a cathedral/seminary and the Ministorum guards have flamers and he thinks something to the effect of- thats a bit over the top even for these guys haha.  

 

You can only imagine what he would feel like if an army of Sisters rolled in with mobile organ rocket launcher tanks haha.

[DukeLeto69]

@Petitioners City - yes 100% agree.

[Pariah32]

I'm half way through this and I must say it is brilliant! This is exactly what I wanted. I cant wait to see where this goes.

[Preliminary Bombardment]

I'm half way through this and I must say it is brilliant! This is exactly what I wanted. I cant wait to see where this goes.

Yes same, I'm utterly loving this

[StrangerOrders]

Nabbing this next since it seems to suit my tastes perfectly.

 

 

 

Same with in-universe knowledge of HH. Loved the Vaults of Terra book by Wraight (again) where Cowl (I think) cannot understand why there are statues of more than nine Primarchs = lovely bit of colour!

And that is as an inquisitor, who I think we often imbue with too much knowledge - almost as player surrogates. That lack of real knowledge from some of the cliche "most informed people in the setting" is really necessary for players to understand - no one knows in setting what we as readers outside the setting know. It is something which the marketing sometimes forgets, and definitely what we find hard to imagine, for sure. Dembski-Bowden, Wraight, French, Abnett and others really emphasise the lack of knowledge or scattered nature of knowledge in the setting - and I wish players and readers more easily embraced that, rather than assuming omniscience of the part of the marines and inquisition and high lords and high magi.

But it is also important to understand that marketing lore (ie codex lore) also flattens what would be the complexities of real life quite dramatically - while codices might emphasise the super secrecy of daemonic knowledge and the silencing of those with knowledge, it will be more variegated in reality - the inquisition, the high lords' agents, the grey knights and the stormtroopers and the iron fist of authority won't be everywhere, nor will the application or interpretation of magisterium be universally the same.

Ultimately anything to complicate, make more nuanced and remove the top down, omniscient, and ultimately codex-driven view of the 41st millenium is good. Something more akin to the nuance of the FW books and more recently the modern Necromunda project.

 

I genuinely dont think most fans realize that even a cursory knowledge of the setting (like say, someone who only skims codexes and doesnt read BL) is equivalent to earth-shattering knowledge that next to one in the setting could actually fathom or possibly know. 

 

In that sense Black Library is aptly named from a setting perspective, you could drop the fifty books of the HH on Daemon Magnus's bird-themed desk and he would topple over at the contents (and likely be perplexed by the varying quality but thats a different point).

 

One of my favorite examples of this was Khayon's interrogators, established to be extremely powerful Inquisitors making a big showing of knowing the word 'Cthonia' at one point referred to a planet. Meanwhile Khayon flexes on his knowledge but doesnt realize the various holes he leaves in his monologues (like being oblivious to Perma-Death existing). 

 

Personally, its something I love in the setting and want to see grow as things go forward. Ignorance is a fairly key part of being human (even those of us that live in largely free societies with these portable super computers with virtually mankind's full knowledge in them tend to only know what our own specialization requires with maybe a good grasp on one or two more fields that catch our eye) and I am often annoyed at how trivially characters know things that they shouldn't.

 

Heck, I do not even necessarily mean because its forbidden/forgotten but like what are the chances that a random Guardsman would go out of her way to memorize the names and histories of the Nine Traitor Legions if it was available? Or even the nine Loyalist Legions? Beyond having a fondness for history or being stationed in a very specific place where she might encounter them, what's her incentive for dedicating her time to doing so? You do not see every soldier in a major war walking around with an indepth knowledge of the history, structure and specific history of the opposing enemy regiment beyond whats crucial. 

[b1soul]

@ StrangerOrders

 

"I am often annoyed at how trivially characters know things that they shouldn't."

 

Could you list a few of the most egregious examples in your opinion?

 

I read mostly HH, so I assume this is more of a problem with stories set in current 40K.

[StrangerOrders]

@ StrangerOrders

 

"I am often annoyed at how trivially characters know things that they shouldn't."

 

Could you list a few of the most egregious examples in your opinion?

 

I read mostly HH, so I assume this is more of a problem with stories set in current 40K.

Mostly things like Ciaphas being able to rattle off which traitor legions are present or Guard books making fairly specific space wolf jokes. A Guard commander in Ultramar knowing a weird amount of detail about the DG's past.

 

Gaunt's Ghosts seeming to be aware of virtually every notable kind of guard (even the ones that primarily exist on the other side of the galaxy). 

 

Things that dont really sync up with the information that would be available.  

 

If we are sticking to 40k, I am irked by the frequency with which Legion's greatest secrets seem to be known by everyone in Legions they barely interact with. See things like the Space Wolves wolves and Russ's, it was cool when Magnus flexed his knowledge by studying Fenris and noting something was up with the Wolves and piercing Russ's 'act'.

 

These days it feels like both of those things seem to be the first observations out of character's mouths when dealing with either.

 

There are probably more examples I can dredge up if I really think about it but those are the things that stuck with me. 

 

It mostly crops up in older books in fairness but it still rears its head here and there. 

[DukeLeto69]

@StrangerOrders totally agree. I would like to see more ignorance in the characters in BL books. Even senior ranking characters. Also see them think they know something and getting it totally wrong.

 

Much as I totally love the GG books by rights they shoukd have been purged - then again that could apply to ALL the Sabbat World Crusade force so maybe that will be the ultimate end to the series “yay we won the war” “the Imperium thanks you but now you must all be exterminated for your exposure and knowledge of chaos”.

 

The Horror and Crime books are clearly taking the ignorance of the little guy path (even a Planetary Governor didn’t know) but that should be seen more in the main line.

[malika666]

@StrangerOrders totally agree. I would like to see more ignorance in the characters in BL books. Even senior ranking characters. Also see them think they know something and getting it totally wrong.

 

Much as I totally love the GG books by rights they shoukd have been purged - then again that could apply to ALL the Sabbat World Crusade force so maybe that will be the ultimate end to the series “yay we won the war” “the Imperium thanks you but now you must all be exterminated for your exposure and knowledge of chaos”.

 

The Horror and Crime books are clearly taking the ignorance of the little guy path (even a Planetary Governor didn’t know) but that should be seen more in the main line.

And following that logic the entire population of Cadia would have had to be exterminated every once in a while because they knew of Chaos. :P

[colonelrofl]

@Caladancid
 

 
In reply to your spoiler...

 
 

I got the impression that Zidarov could be a host for genestealers? I thought that the scar on his chest that he can't remember how he got (classic genestealers) and the fact the medic had seen nothing like it before were pretty compelling evidence that it was a xenos infestation when tied to the mysterious GS event in the polar region? I could be wrong but... that little gathering didn't feel chaosy to me. What do you think?

Edited August 13, 2020 by colonelrofl

[DukeLeto69]

@malika666 oh you used the word “logic” in 40k!

 

I reckon Cadia gets a pass as all doomed eventually (well they were in the end as it happens).

 

However, the fact that Cadian regiments appear across the Imperium means they might gossip about chaos etc to fellow IG! So logic in the lore is full of holes!

 

But we heading off topic now!!!!

[Beren]

@Caladancid

 

 

 

In reply to your spoiler...

 

 

 

I got the impression that Zidarov could be a host for genestealers? I thought that the scar on his chest that he can't remember how he got (classic genestealers) and the fact the medic had seen nothing like it before were pretty compelling evidence that it was a xenos infestation when tied to the mysterious GS event in the polar region? I could be wrong but... that little gathering didn't feel chaosy to me. What do you think?

 

The cult is described as predating the Imperial arrival though, so though it may have been suborned it is unlikely to have had its origins from a genestealer cult. Zidarov also displays none of the fanaticism or feeling of wellbeing associated with the genestealer cult, and none of the typical language or mutations associated with them were mentioned as being present.

[Shinros]

 

@Caladancid

 

 

 

In reply to your spoiler...

 

 

 

I got the impression that Zidarov could be a host for genestealers? I thought that the scar on his chest that he can't remember how he got (classic genestealers) and the fact the medic had seen nothing like it before were pretty compelling evidence that it was a xenos infestation when tied to the mysterious GS event in the polar region? I could be wrong but... that little gathering didn't feel chaosy to me. What do you think?

 

The cult is described as predating the Imperial arrival though, so though it may have been suborned it is unlikely to have had its origins from a genestealer cult. Zidarov also displays none of the fanaticism or feeling of wellbeing associated with the genestealer cult, and none of the typical language or mutations associated with them were mentioned as being present.

 

 

People don't mutate when given the genestealer kiss. Anyway so far this book looks interesting I might pick it up.

  Edited August 13, 2020 by Shinros

[malika666]

@malika666 oh you used the word “logic” in 40k!

 

I reckon Cadia gets a pass as all doomed eventually (well they were in the end as it happens).

 

However, the fact that Cadian regiments appear across the Imperium means they might gossip about chaos etc to fellow IG! So logic in the lore is full of holes!

 

But we heading off topic now!!!!

Hmm, if the topic is more the ignorance of Chaos, I'd imagine that most Imperial citizens and even soldiers have no clue what it (really) is. Some Imperial Guard or other subfactions might know of it, but only as it being a sort of 'political opposition' movement, not the malignancy that it truly is. As for the Cadians, despite them being deployed everywhere, I might imagine that contact between the Cadians and other Imperial Guard regiments might be kept at a minimum to prevent such gossips.

 

Also note how the Inquisition had sterilised most of Armageddon's population after the First War for Armageddon (the one against Angron).  

[DukeLeto69]

Back on topic more firmly - while arguably a trope in 40k I would actually like to see one of these normal cops uncover/discover something about chaos and his/her reward being execution by the Inquisition “thanks citizen”

[Beren]

 

 

@Caladancid

 

 

 

In reply to your spoiler...

 

 

 

I got the impression that Zidarov could be a host for genestealers? I thought that the scar on his chest that he can't remember how he got (classic genestealers) and the fact the medic had seen nothing like it before were pretty compelling evidence that it was a xenos infestation when tied to the mysterious GS event in the polar region? I could be wrong but... that little gathering didn't feel chaosy to me. What do you think?

 

The cult is described as predating the Imperial arrival though, so though it may have been suborned it is unlikely to have had its origins from a genestealer cult. Zidarov also displays none of the fanaticism or feeling of wellbeing associated with the genestealer cult, and none of the typical language or mutations associated with them were mentioned as being present.

 

 

People don't mutate when given the genestealer kiss. Anyway so far this book looks interesting I might pick it up.

 

 

 

 

Offspring however do, and none of the other cult members are noted as possessing any. There is also the matter of teh urge to reproduce and induct family members, which is not as present here as one might expect it to be.

[Shinros]

 

 

 

@Caladancid

 

 

 

In reply to your spoiler...

 

 

 

I got the impression that Zidarov could be a host for genestealers? I thought that the scar on his chest that he can't remember how he got (classic genestealers) and the fact the medic had seen nothing like it before were pretty compelling evidence that it was a xenos infestation when tied to the mysterious GS event in the polar region? I could be wrong but... that little gathering didn't feel chaosy to me. What do you think?

 

The cult is described as predating the Imperial arrival though, so though it may have been suborned it is unlikely to have had its origins from a genestealer cult. Zidarov also displays none of the fanaticism or feeling of wellbeing associated with the genestealer cult, and none of the typical language or mutations associated with them were mentioned as being present.

 

 

People don't mutate when given the genestealer kiss. Anyway so far this book looks interesting I might pick it up.

 

 

 

 

Offspring however do, and none of the other cult members are noted as possessing any. There is also the matter of teh urge to reproduce and induct family members, which is not as present here as one might expect it to be.

 

Well I can't comment more on this since I'm now starting to work through the book, but his family situation seems weird, plus the references to scar. Anyway, I might come back to this conversation later. Do have to say, the book is really good.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Shinros