Bloodlines- Warhammer Crime

[Scribe]

Going to see if I can pick this up today.

[SkimaskMohawk]

  On 8/18/2020 at 8:20 PM, Roomsky said:

Wraight out here delivering the hard F-word into the Black Library lexicon. Not done yet but obviously now 10/10.

Man when I read the first one I knew we were in for a good book. It's framed by the paragraph structure to grab your attention, and he hasn't sworn up until then, even when hes surprised Brecht had ran to back him up. Wraight keeps it so you know something big is about to go down.

[Knockagh]

  On 8/18/2020 at 8:20 PM, Roomsky said:

Wraight out here delivering the hard F-word into the Black Library lexicon. Not done yet but obviously now 10/10.

Noticed that. Floodgates now officially open do you think? As long as no one goes mental about it I can’t see anyone caring. I’m about 2/3 through and he’s only done it twice, if I was Agusto I would be in the high teens at least. Swearing is for hitting your finger with a hammer not for casual discourse. (Or so I tell the kids) I know it’s everyday language for many but so is lots of stuff that I do t really want in my books.

Who will be first with the big C?

[Roomsky]

  On 8/18/2020 at 9:20 PM, Knockagh said:

 

  On 8/18/2020 at 8:20 PM, Roomsky said:

Wraight out here delivering the hard F-word into the Black Library lexicon. Not done yet but obviously now 10/10.

Noticed that. Floodgates now officially open do you think? As long as no one goes mental about it I can’t see anyone caring. I’m about 2/3 through and he’s only done it twice, if I was Agusto I would be in the high teens at least. Swearing is for hitting your finger with a hammer not for casual discourse. (Or so I tell the kids) I know it’s everyday language for many but so is lots of stuff that I do t really want in my books.

Who will be first with the big C?

 

 

 

I wouldn’t mind phasing out the sci-fi curse analogs for the obvious parallels. When they’re not a stand-in for specific contemporary curses I don’t mind, but it reads to me as a bit childish when someone says “fug.” As long as the authors and editors show a bit of restraint, I don’t see it being an issue. (Think Interstellar, only got one F-bomb but used it to great effect.)

 

Or maybe they’re just being weird and it’s a Crime-specific feature,

[Knockagh]

No way, phasing out in world swear words would be a loss to the world building. Who doesn’t think feth is a great swear word? We all know what it means but it’s not it, so its fine. Adds character. The crime world is new, Wraight could have designed a localised ‘feth’ but he didn’t and that’s ok but let’s leave it fething alone. I don’t want ghosts novels layered with nastiness.

I still want these books accessible to school kids. We have all been 15 year olds who have drooled over sci fi stuff. Yes 15 year olds will want swear words but there is a reason we tell them not to do it.

We even ban these words on bolter because the mods recognise that some words add a weight to sentences that are not really needed.

[DukeLeto69]

@knockagh I agree. Things like “feth” started out as a workaround for the BL non-swearing approach. But now it is part of the world-building and core to the setting.

 

While not a swear word (I think) I also like the way characters invoke “throne” as well. Make 40k seem another step removed from 21st century.

 

Personally I would have preferred Wraight to invent a word too. The “F” word (as we all know) is Anglo-Saxon vernacular, as such didn’t exist in other contemporary societies. As such you could argue why it would continue to exist 38k years from now!

 

No biggie and trust Wraight has used it well (not got Bloodlines yet - next week).

[Knockagh]

Finished this. Excellent start to crime. At times I get a little tired of 40k and read something else usually a history book or sometimes Star Wars but this felt refreshingly different but still within my favourite setting....bargain.

 

Genuinely no complaints here at all. I would have liked to see more of Agustos home life but I’m sure that will develop in future books that I’m pretty sure will come. Nice to see a family with all its faults and squabbling but plenty of love still there. Gotta love some human hope.

I’m expecting he is at some kind of introductory stage of his secret life, it will be interesting to see his inevitable sinking. Again I would have liked to see more of this but I’m sure it’s coming. Build ‘em up and knock ‘em down. The warhammer way.

More home life and more nefarious secrets would have broken up the story a little better, but setting that aside it’s a superb novel and I can’t wait for more. 10 out of 10 from me

[Preliminary Bombardment]

Guys... can you all go and get this book? I reallly enjoyed this and want more!

 

In terms of the swearing, I think this sits at the opposite end of the spectrum from the Warhammer Adventures series which is for young people. This seems more aimed at pulling in adults. I mean if you read any Ian Rankin, Iain Banks or Lee Child there is some seriously dark stuff in there (albeit still not as bad as a Daemoncubala!), I mean I shudder to think what Peter Fehevari would do if he wrote crime.

[DukeLeto69]

I have it from a reliable source that Fehervari is not interested in writing WH Crime - but is very happy his next novel is branded WH Horror.

[aa.logan]

I loved it. But I’m going to start with a negative. The day before listening to it, I watched all the videos in this twitter thread-

 

https://twitter.com/ferguscraig/status/1285204912977195008?s=21

 

Which was a mistake; the voice work is pretty great, but kept on bringing me back to this. I like my noir to have an American accent, and it would have been nice to see this brought in by BL.

 

That’s a minor quibble though. It’s not the best 40k book I’ve read, and it’s far from the best crime novel I’ve read, but the marriage of the two is near perfect. I’ve never wanted to eat anything I’ve read about in a BL book before, but I was gagging for the kebab he went for. Everything about the world-building is incredible - the symbiotic/parasitic relationships between the and corporations, the planet’s strange weather, the way that the Imperial Cult is practised are all glorious. As for *that* spoiler

  Reveal hidden contents

I’d lean more GS than Chaos cult, if either, but why are folk taking the assertion that it predates the Imperium at face value?

.

 

structurally, it’s very much a hard boiled noir, and I’m glad that it plays the genre so straight. We have femme fatales, staff working for shadowy figures looking a bit tasty and the actual crime investigated is straight out of a Chandler story. But for all that it is very much a 40k book. The swearing is distinct, but real swears have been creeping in across BL, especially within Horror, so I’m assuming that this is a bid to better sit alongside other genre works. It sets up both the wider series and it’s presumed sequel very well indeed.

 

Ive sent a copy to my Mum, whose even more of a Crime reader than me, and I look forward to seeing what she makes of it.

Edited August 21, 2020 by aa.logan

[Preliminary Bombardment]

I did actually order a kebab after reading it. I regret nothing.

[Frater Antodeniel]

  On 8/21/2020 at 8:27 AM, Preliminary Bombardment said:

I did actually order a kebab after reading it. I regret nothing.

But your body will, and so will your mind should you ever learn of the "ingredients" in it.

 

 

"On the path towards heresy, the first step is also the last."

[DarkChaplain]

Heads up: No Good Men's first story, Aberrant, is another Agusto Zidarov story by Wraight.

[SkimaskMohawk]

  On 8/22/2020 at 8:44 AM, DarkChaplain said:

Heads up: No Good Men's first story, Aberrant, is another Agusto Zidarov story by Wraight.

 

I feel like certain...theories are maybe a bit more plausible with a name like that lol

[caladancid]

  Reveal hidden contents

I probably should go back and read it again with the particular GSC v Chaos argument in mind.  That first read I was sort of just in a ears pinned back this is awesome mode.  Maybe next week after the anthology downloads I will read that, and then if it doesn't shed light go start a second read.  Don't worry,  I will report back.

[Nineswords]

  On 8/20/2020 at 8:08 PM, aa.logan said:

but I was gagging for the kebab he went for. 

 

"No kebab. Only Khlav Kalash"

 

I also really enjoyed this scene; not just the description of the food but the all too familiar false camaraderie with the seller, literally repeating the same conversation he has every single time. It's little nuggets like these I thought were an excellent touch.

 

RE: Swearing –– I'd assume the inclusion of 'real world' swearing caters to BL's strategy: namely having art and wording to get Warhammer Crime out of the genre or video game tie in fiction, and into the Crime shelves in major bookshops. It is, as far as I can tell, an effective strategy and the inclusion of real world swearing would entice a reader who loves crime but has zero interest in Warhammer or Space Marines. Ditto Warhammer Horror. 

[Pariah32]

So I finished this today and I must say 'this is exactly what I needed since Pariah'.

 

I have been hoping for something of this nature for so long and now we are finally getting it. Chris Wraight was the absolute best choice to start this off with his amazing world building and perfect tone setting for this series.

 

I cant wait to get stuck into the anthology 'No Good Men' to delve even more.

[Chaeron]

Even more excited to read this based on the positive comments in this thread! I'd been eagerly awaiting the imprint since the announcement, so all the keener to read now after this feedback and those comparisons.

[DukeLeto69]

Halfway through. THIS IS EXCELLENT and just the type of thing I have wanted from BL since the Eisenhorn/Ravenor books started giving us glimpses into domestic settings.

 

Has a real Peter James “Roy Grace” vibe to me.

[DukeLeto69]

Ok finished and...

 

EXCELLENT BRILLIANT BOOK - LOVED IT

 

It felt appropriately pulpy and noir. It hit all the expected beats but doesn’t remotely feel hackneyed or full of crime tropes (they are there but the writing is so good they just flow).

 

This is the type of book I have been craving eversince the Abnett Inquisitor books and Farrer’s Calpurnia books.

 

I am no good at writing reviews but this has totally set the bar high for the Crime imprint.

 

It also feels enough like 40k while still being its own thing.

 

I can now read the spoilers but I am SO GLAD I resisted (rare for me).

 

Hope Crime takes off because I expect to be buying all of these.

[DukeLeto69]

Ok so regarding the spoilers (if you haven't read the book then resist the urge to read the spoilers)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I am certain there is a GSC in Verangantua. There are many clues. The serpent logo for the city. The worship of the serpent by the secret cult Zidarov is part of. The couple of references to people in the gilded areas of the city having different colour skin (purple, green).

 

Have to say the physical description of the "off worlder" made me think he was a Genestealer 3rd or 4th generation.

 

Jazc Corporation are a front is my guess. And we never actually saw Avro!

 

His friend Brecht also talks about there being genestealers but Zido dismisses it.

 

Also when Brecht brings Zido's daughter back he describes a guy who sounds GSC like.

 

As for whether Zido is a 4th gen. Well maybe. Looking through Codex Genestealers I cannot find any reference to the scar on Zido's chest but it seems to react when he is in the presence of potential other members (as per above). Plus he doesn't remember how he got it. I do not think he knows if he is a 4th gen.

 

However, one problem - 4th gen produces purestrains and his daughter is human so...?

 

Regarding the religious cult, here is an extract from the Codex:

 

"...outwardly, it's cultists worship the same deity as the host civilisation, albeit a strange variant thereof."

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by DukeLeto69

[Shinros]

  On 8/27/2020 at 2:32 PM, DukeLeto69 said:

Ok so regarding the spoilers (if you haven't read the book then resist the urge to read the spoilers)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I am certain there is a GSC in Verangantua. There are many clues. The serpent logo for the city. The worship of the serpent by the secret cult Zidarov is part of. The couple of references to people in the gilded areas of the city having different colour skin (purple, green).

 

Have to say the physical description of the "off worlder" made me think he was a Genestealer 3rd or 4th generation.

 

Jazc Corporation are a front is my guess. And we never actually saw Avro!

 

His friend Brecht also talks about there being genestealers but Zido dismisses it.

 

Also when Brecht brings Zido's daughter back he describes a guy who sounds GSC like.

 

As for whether Zido is a 4th gen. Well maybe. Looking through Codex Genestealers I cannot find any reference to the scar on Zido's chest but it seems to react when he is in the presence of potential other members (as per above). Plus he doesn't remember how he got it. I do not think he knows if he is a 4th gen.

 

However, one problem - 4th gen produces purestrains and his daughter is human so...?

 

Regarding the religious cult, here is an extract from the Codex:

 

"...outwardly, it's cultists worship the same deity as the host civilisation, albeit a strange variant thereof."

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Zid is an infected human, a genestealer cult starts with a genestealer giving humans the kiss. The first genestealer to infect someone slowly turns into the patriarch. If you want to get technical lore wise, Zid is a brood brother. They give birth to 1st generation, look at the hybrid kit for examples. In my opinion he's a very low level brood brother going by the story. Anyway, I've talked with a mate recently who read the book, I posed the question to him if he thinks the main character is a chaos cultists or a genestealer cultist, he said genestealer, definitely. There are too many hints.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Shinros

[DukeLeto69]

  On 8/27/2020 at 2:43 PM, Shinros said:

 

  On 8/27/2020 at 2:32 PM, DukeLeto69 said:

Ok so regarding the spoilers (if you haven't read the book then resist the urge to read the spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

I am certain there is a GSC in Verangantua. There are many clues. The serpent logo for the city. The worship of the serpent by the secret cult Zidarov is part of. The couple of references to people in the gilded areas of the city having different colour skin (purple, green).

Have to say the physical description of the "off worlder" made me think he was a Genestealer 3rd or 4th generation.

Jazc Corporation are a front is my guess. And we never actually saw Avro!

His friend Brecht also talks about there being genestealers but Zido dismisses it.

Also when Brecht brings Zido's daughter back he describes a guy who sounds GSC like.

As for whether Zido is a 4th gen. Well maybe. Looking through Codex Genestealers I cannot find any reference to the scar on Zido's chest but it seems to react when he is in the presence of potential other members (as per above). Plus he doesn't remember how he got it. I do not think he knows if he is a 4th gen.

However, one problem - 4th gen produces purestrains and his daughter is human so...?

Regarding the religious cult, here is an extract from the Codex:

"...outwardly, it's cultists worship the same deity as the host civilisation, albeit a strange variant thereof."

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Zid is an infected human, a genestealer cult starts with a genestealer giving humans the kiss. The first genestealer to infect someone slowly turns into the patriarch. If you want to get technical lore wise, Zid is a brood brother. They give birth to 1st generation, look at the hybrid kit for examples. In my opinion he's a very low level brood brother going by the story. Anyway, I've talked with a mate recently who read the book, I posed the question to him if he thinks the main character is a chaos cultists or a genestealer cultist, he said genestealer, definitely. There are too many hints.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Yes you are quite right. Zido is a brood brother for sure. I was only looking at the codex which doesn't go into a lot of detail on these but looking online yes it makes sense. The Genestealer kiss would have needed to happen after he and his wife had already had their daughter as she is a standard human rather than a 1st gen.

 

Question that raises though is that his wife would know about the scar?

 

This is all very intriguing, and sets us up for more great stories going forward.

 

[Scribe]

I must not click...

[Sothalor]

Don't do it. Read the book.