Time for a new Guardsmens kit?

[TorvaldTheMild]

Who else thinks our lowly guardsmen need an update. Its the year 41,000 and our futuristic soldiers look like zulu's compared to modern troops. I think their kit needs to be buffed up, get some webbing on them, bergens filled with :cuss that they are bulging out their back etc. At least make them look tactical, like they can fight in a battle for at least a day before starving to death lol Edited August 11, 2020 by duz_
More informative title

[Lucerne]

You want the OOP Elysians.

 

We probably won't get that but a cadian update seems inevitable- look at the Blackstone models that obviously started off as revamped cadians and how easy it'd be for GW to tweak the 3D files a bit.

[GreenScorpion]

I suspect GW will eventually release cadians updated with the slightly better proportions of the blackstone fortress traitors.
The thing is that the cadians still sell, regardless of what some people say about the kits and while GW is busy releasing more and more Space Marines, it just gets lower and lower in the queue, but you can be sure they have updates for several factions, as they plan years in advance for most of their releases.

They might also update catachans, although I doubt they would look less "Rambo" as they are currently.

 

It would be nice for them to update models for other regiments, but for now I doubt they will make it.

There are lots of people who buy GW stuff to use as base for conversions of guardsmen with 3rd party parts, so they are likely not very interested in adding too much variety, as long as people still buy into their base product line.

[TorvaldTheMild]

Always remember the lighter you are the better you fight. Troops generally only carry around heavy kit if they’re not expecting heavy fighting or setting into a new OP. Now I don’t think that’s at all the reason for the current Cadian kit, but still...

 

As one of our esteemed brethren stated in another forum related to a different faction, I’d go into bankruptcy myself if they released plastic Steel Legion.

 

I do actually like the cadian line personally.

'The lighter you are the better you fight' yeah that isn't true at all.  Troops will take full kit on a patrol a few miles from the FOB.  You could get cut off or encircled and have to fight for 3+ days without support.  You could think you are on an operation where you don't need too much kit but that could quickly change, I think you have seen blackhawk down too many times.  Also a platoon can work just as well fully kitted than not.

Edited August 11, 2020 by TorvaldTheMild

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Better kit runs in direct opposition to the theme of the guard. Even the uniform and las rifle they're given cuts into the cost to benefit ratio. Gas masks are extra, tactical netting is extra. Why give a guard unit 10 days worth of food if its going to be lost and devoured when he is? Give him a gun and a uniform for morale, and if he lives passed the first wave of engagement you can air drop a day's food onto his position. But you know that he won't, and the next wave of soldiers are going to arrive pre-fed.

[duz_]

This was also recently discussed here

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364092-9th-ed-trailer-a-hint-at-a-future-cadian-redesign/

[TorvaldTheMild]

This was also recently discussed here

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364092-9th-ed-trailer-a-hint-at-a-future-cadian-redesign/

I've been ill for 6 months so I've just gotten back to the hobby and bolter and chain, my bad.

[War Angel]

 

Always remember the lighter you are the better you fight. Troops generally only carry around heavy kit if they’re not expecting heavy fighting or setting into a new OP. Now I don’t think that’s at all the reason for the current Cadian kit, but still...

As one of our esteemed brethren stated in another forum related to a different faction, I’d go into bankruptcy myself if they released plastic Steel Legion.

I do actually like the cadian line personally.

 

'The lighter you are the better you fight' yeah that isn't true at all.  Troops will take full kit on a patrol a few miles from the FOB.  You could get cut off or encircled and have to fight for 3+ days without support.  You could think you are on an operation where you don't need too much kit but that could quickly change, I think you have seen blackhawk down too many times.  Also a platoon can work just as well fully kitted than not.

Confirmed. And this is the second time someone’s suggested otherwise (think the last time was on Facebook) I’m questioning what you guys are considering “heavy” the assault pack is not heavy.

[TorvaldTheMild]

 

 

Always remember the lighter you are the better you fight. Troops generally only carry around heavy kit if they’re not expecting heavy fighting or setting into a new OP. Now I don’t think that’s at all the reason for the current Cadian kit, but still...

As one of our esteemed brethren stated in another forum related to a different faction, I’d go into bankruptcy myself if they released plastic Steel Legion.

I do actually like the cadian line personally.

'The lighter you are the better you fight' yeah that isn't true at all.  Troops will take full kit on a patrol a few miles from the FOB.  You could get cut off or encircled and have to fight for 3+ days without support.  You could think you are on an operation where you don't need too much kit but that could quickly change, I think you have seen blackhawk down too many times.  Also a platoon can work just as well fully kitted than not.

Confirmed. And this is the second time someone’s suggested otherwise (think the last time was on Facebook) I’m questioning what you guys are considering “heavy” the assault pack is not heavy.

 

Well heavy would be anyything other than guardsmen, heavy would be 200 pounds in your bergen and webbing like the SAS carried in the first Iraq war but other than that infantry don't really carry anything heavy or light, they carry standard 60-100 pounds in weight but its mostly 100 for grunts.

[duz_]

Let's not forget 40k isn't real life so no need to debate the finer points of modern warfare in too much detail.

[Warhead01]

Who else thinks our lowly guardsmen need an update. Its the year 41,000 and our futuristic soldiers look like zulu's compared to modern troops. I think their kit needs to be buffed up, get some webbing on them, bergens filled with that they are bulging out their back etc. At least make them look tactical, like they can fight in a battle for at least a day before starving to death lol

I for one feel current Cadians are too large already . Guard should be significantly shorter and smaller than a Space Marine. 

If you want big fulll ruck sacks, why not make them on the cheap with modeling putty of some kind, make 10 or so and cast those in resin. 

If there's enough interest you can sell off your extra and make some of you expenses back. 

 

[TorvaldTheMild]

 

Who else thinks our lowly guardsmen need an update. Its the year 41,000 and our futuristic soldiers look like zulu's compared to modern troops. I think their kit needs to be buffed up, get some webbing on them, bergens filled with that they are bulging out their back etc. At least make them look tactical, like they can fight in a battle for at least a day before starving to death lol

I for one feel current Cadians are too large already . Guard should be significantly shorter and smaller than a Space Marine. 

If you want big fulll ruck sacks, why not make them on the cheap with modeling putty of some kind, make 10 or so and cast those in resin. 

If there's enough interest you can sell off your extra and make some of you expenses back. 

 

 

I don't mean making them bigger, not at all in fact I think they should be smaller as should other factions I'm just talking about theit kit.

[Warhead01]

 

 

Who else thinks our lowly guardsmen need an update. Its the year 41,000 and our futuristic soldiers look like zulu's compared to modern troops. I think their kit needs to be buffed up, get some webbing on them, bergens filled with that they are bulging out their back etc. At least make them look tactical, like they can fight in a battle for at least a day before starving to death lol

I for one feel current Cadians are too large already . Guard should be significantly shorter and smaller than a Space Marine. 

If you want big fulll ruck sacks, why not make them on the cheap with modeling putty of some kind, make 10 or so and cast those in resin. 

If there's enough interest you can sell off your extra and make some of you expenses back. 

 

 

I don't mean making them bigger, not at all in fact I think they should be smaller as should other factions I'm just talking about theit kit.

 

In a pinch there are 3rd party kit you can find in just about the right size. I don't know about rucks but other gear. I've got E tools from war games factory and now all the kit from the WW1 Germans by Wargames Atlantic. But I'm using models that are closer to a true 28MM not heroic scale. 

Maybe even victoria Mini's might have the extra things your looking for. If GW doesn't produce what you like go 3rd party and give your money to some one else. 

I know that's a little off topic. The only GW mini's I would buy now if I were going to use GW mini's would be the 2nd edition Cadians supplemented with Green stuff or just a full on DKoK, if it were plastic.  

[TorvaldTheMild]

 

 

 

Who else thinks our lowly guardsmen need an update. Its the year 41,000 and our futuristic soldiers look like zulu's compared to modern troops. I think their kit needs to be buffed up, get some webbing on them, bergens filled with that they are bulging out their back etc. At least make them look tactical, like they can fight in a battle for at least a day before starving to death lol

I for one feel current Cadians are too large already . Guard should be significantly shorter and smaller than a Space Marine. 

If you want big fulll ruck sacks, why not make them on the cheap with modeling putty of some kind, make 10 or so and cast those in resin. 

If there's enough interest you can sell off your extra and make some of you expenses back. 

 

 

I don't mean making them bigger, not at all in fact I think they should be smaller as should other factions I'm just talking about theit kit.

 

In a pinch there are 3rd party kit you can find in just about the right size. I don't know about rucks but other gear. I've got E tools from war games factory and now all the kit from the WW1 Germans by Wargames Atlantic. But I'm using models that are closer to a true 28MM not heroic scale. 

Maybe even victoria Mini's might have the extra things your looking for. If GW doesn't produce what you like go 3rd party and give your money to some one else. 

I know that's a little off topic. The only GW mini's I would buy now if I were going to use GW mini's would be the 2nd edition Cadians supplemented with Green stuff or just a full on DKoK, if it were plastic.  

 

I collect DKK but they are still heavily under-kitted.

[Imperator Deus]

If they did I probably wouldn't buy them unfortunately, ! I have way too many grey plastic Cadians and Catachans as it is, but for all the new Guard players, I would like to see at least one of each special weapon option in every box. It sucks that all we get now are Grenade Launchers and Flamers on the Cadian Sprue, and just Flamers on the Catachan sprue! Every other army I play gets at least one of every option for the squad, why not Guard too?

 

Having said that, I would really prefer to see a third regiment done in plastic. I have a small platoon of Steel Legion from way back in the day, and I would love to see some plastic Steel Legion, or maybe Valhallans!

[War Angel]

 

 

 

Always remember the lighter you are the better you fight. Troops generally only carry around heavy kit if they’re not expecting heavy fighting or setting into a new OP. Now I don’t think that’s at all the reason for the current Cadian kit, but still...

As one of our esteemed brethren stated in another forum related to a different faction, I’d go into bankruptcy myself if they released plastic Steel Legion.

I do actually like the cadian line personally.

 

'The lighter you are the better you fight' yeah that isn't true at all.  Troops will take full kit on a patrol a few miles from the FOB.  You could get cut off or encircled and have to fight for 3+ days without support.  You could think you are on an operation where you don't need too much kit but that could quickly change, I think you have seen blackhawk down too many times.  Also a platoon can work just as well fully kitted than not.

Confirmed. And this is the second time someone’s suggested otherwise (think the last time was on Facebook) I’m questioning what you guys are considering “heavy” the assault pack is not heavy.

Well heavy would be anyything other than guardsmen, heavy would be 200 pounds in your bergen and webbing like the SAS carried in the first Iraq war but other than that infantry don't really carry anything heavy or light, they carry standard 60-100 pounds in weight but its mostly 100 for grunts.

Exactly. The day pack (or assault pack) is exactly what they would be carrying for that 60-100 lbs of gear loadout. And if they know they’re going to be out there for a prolonged trip then they would take the rucksack, but for modeling purposes we should limit to the assault pack.

[brother_b]

Not sure guard are expected to go on bivouacs and what not. They deploy, they get annihilated, the remnants are recycled into new units. 

 

Anyway, I think the Cadian guardsmen are great and reflect the average generic guardsman well. I would love a throw back to the rogue trader plastic kit look. Those were my favorites.

[TorvaldTheMild]

If they did I probably wouldn't buy them unfortunately, ! I have way too many grey plastic Cadians and Catachans as it is, but for all the new Guard players, I would like to see at least one of each special weapon option in every box. It sucks that all we get now are Grenade Launchers and Flamers on the Cadian Sprue, and just Flamers on the Catachan sprue! Every other army I play gets at least one of every option for the squad, why not Guard too?

 

Having said that, I would really prefer to see a third regiment done in plastic. I have a small platoon of Steel Legion from way back in the day, and I would love to see some plastic Steel Legion, or maybe Valhallans!

WHY?

 

 

 

 

Always remember the lighter you are the better you fight. Troops generally only carry around heavy kit if they’re not expecting heavy fighting or setting into a new OP. Now I don’t think that’s at all the reason for the current Cadian kit, but still...

As one of our esteemed brethren stated in another forum related to a different faction, I’d go into bankruptcy myself if they released plastic Steel Legion.

I do actually like the cadian line personally.

'The lighter you are the better you fight' yeah that isn't true at all.  Troops will take full kit on a patrol a few miles from the FOB.  You could get cut off or encircled and have to fight for 3+ days without support.  You could think you are on an operation where you don't need too much kit but that could quickly change, I think you have seen blackhawk down too many times.  Also a platoon can work just as well fully kitted than not.

Confirmed. And this is the second time someone’s suggested otherwise (think the last time was on Facebook) I’m questioning what you guys are considering “heavy” the assault pack is not heavy.

Well heavy would be anyything other than guardsmen, heavy would be 200 pounds in your bergen and webbing like the SAS carried in the first Iraq war but other than that infantry don't really carry anything heavy or light, they carry standard 60-100 pounds in weight but its mostly 100 for grunts.

Exactly. The day pack (or assault pack) is exactly what they would be carrying for that 60-100 lbs of gear loadout. And if they know they’re going to be out there for a prolonged trip then they would take the rucksack, but for modeling purposes we should limit to the assault pack.

 

What do you mean day pack?

Edited August 12, 2020 by TorvaldTheMild

[sairence]

Settle down guys. We want to be civil here, the anger should be saved for the heretic and xenos scum. Remember that the Commissars are always watching.

[Brother Tyler]

This isn't a realistic game setting. Warhammer 40,000 is science fantasy, filled with all kinds of anachronistic devices and silliness. The models themselves are beefed up in certain ways in terms of the scale (28-32mm miniatures that are much thicker than real life proportions so that they appear suitably heroic), but also pared down in certain ways in order to enhance appearance (includes things like cutting down on all of the doodads in order to avoid fiddly details). The themes of the various Astra Militarum ranges are deliberately based on certain historical themes that appeal to different genres (e.g., Tallarn, Vostroyan, etc.). The models themselves are usually based on the rigors of a raid or defensive position, not a long range patrol. An internet search of "28 mm miniatures modern" doesn't reveal a whole lot of backpacks - there are a few ranges/models with backpacks, but the vast majority lack these accessories (and despite the variation in "moderns" that such a search will return, I'm primarily looking at those that are based on military/paramilitary forces). This game focuses on dynamic moments of the engagement, with models posed and kitted out "in the heat of the moment." We can assume that there is plenty more logistics tail behind everything and that the individual soldiers will often have much more gear with them in the theater than is shown on their models, but with the exception of certain dioramas and special scenarios (not the ones that are typically played), all of that other stuff is much more boring to most. This is a game of 2nd generation warfare where swords and shields can be just as useful as guns.

Both the first and second versions of the Storm Troopers included kit such as that which is being proposed in this discussion. There are many hobbyists that like certain aspects of both versions, including the realism of the kits. There are many, however, that found the additional kit distracting, taking away from the dynamic and heroic appearance they wanted in their fantasy miniatures. YMMV

A worthwhile [short] book to read before committing to a position on adding heavy kit to our fantasy miniatures is The Soldier's Load and the Mobility of a Nation.

[GreenScorpion]

Heavy weapon teams have backpacks and the tempestus have enough webbing for them and for cadian squads as well.

There are lots of other options from 3rd parties as mentioned, Anvil Industry is a good example.

While you would take gear with you on a mission, for battles you would often leave most of the weight on the rendezvous point or a baggage train of some sort, as large backpacks make you a big target and moving slow while being very visible is not the best way to remain alive (not that the average guardsmen lives very long).

 

Essentially you can already accomplish what you would like with a mix of GW parts.

 

As a side note, remember that the romans had lots of trouble due to being ambushed while carrying all of their gear and their typical tactic would be to drop it and fight lightly, which is useful for close range or melee combat.

[MedicMike0708]

Despite my mounds of grey plastic, if a third guard regiment are released wide spread in plastic I would still collect more than a large games worth of new minis. And happily shell out my hard earned money to do so. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be in the offing right now. If it’s not space marines GW doesn’t seem all that interested.

Maybe we could propose that to the GW design team? “New made to order box set space marines junior-situs and pre-itiiate-atus, they’re like their even better and superhuman brethren but regular sized. And ordinary. And guardsmen”

As for the discussion on packs The option should be there for Mosley’s wanting time feature them, but canonically it’s never really bothered me. Guardsmen either are not going to live much longer than a pocket full of rations and ammo will require, or the forces deployed on the tabletop are merely the vanguard of the mighty emperors war force and its well supported from just off the table edge by departmentum munitorum cooks, clerks, quartermasters and camp followers

[War Angel]

Not going to post pictures (because I would have to post them to a different website first) but the day pack (or assault pack) is about normal backpack sized. I think we nicknamed it day pack because we take it for those “day long” missions (of course that 12 hour patrol could become 3 days)

 

 

And to the rest of you, are we really coming into a thread where the OP says he would like a new kit, which possibly includes more modern things, and then telling him he’s not allowed to want that? That’s what he wants, he’s allowed to have a different taste than you. Stop gatekeeping.

 

 

Edit: “but you can get all of those bits from third party companies” ok cool, so GW should never make anything for the guard ever again, because third party companies make everything. Another point against third party is that it’s not made of the same material, and for some people they actually maters.

Edited August 12, 2020 by War Angel

[GreenScorpion]

And to the rest of you, are we really coming into a thread where the OP says he would like a new kit, which possibly includes more modern things, and then telling him he’s not allowed to want that? That’s what he wants, he’s allowed to have a different taste than you. Stop gatekeeping.

 

 

Edit: “but you can get all of those bits from third party companies” ok cool, so GW should never make anything for the guard ever again, because third party companies make everything. Another point against third party is that it’s not made of the same material, and for some people they actually maters.

I don't think anyone said specifically not to wish for GW to do things.

Obviously, resin and other parts are not adequate for everyone, the reason why I mentioned potential solutions for now with GW stuff.

As I mentioned before in this thread and elsewhere, GW will get to update guard, but doesn't seem to be their priority, so it might take a while.

Conversions will likely have to do for now for most things.

[War Angel]

 

 

And to the rest of you, are we really coming into a thread where the OP says he would like a new kit, which possibly includes more modern things, and then telling him he’s not allowed to want that? That’s what he wants, he’s allowed to have a different taste than you. Stop gatekeeping.

 

 

Edit: “but you can get all of those bits from third party companies” ok cool, so GW should never make anything for the guard ever again, because third party companies make everything. Another point against third party is that it’s not made of the same material, and for some people they actually maters.

I don't think anyone said specifically not to wish for GW to do things.

Obviously, resin and other parts are not adequate for everyone, the reason why I mentioned potential solutions for now with GW stuff.

As I mentioned before in this thread and elsewhere, GW will get to update guard, but doesn't seem to be their priority, so it might take a while.

Conversions will likely have to do for now for most things.

Am I misreading some of these posts? If I am, ignore it.

 

Edit: of course I wasn’t looking at you as thinking that way, just to be clear.

Edited August 12, 2020 by War Angel