Big overall changes for

[angrom]

So with the recent news of terminators getting 3 wounds and now veteran space marines getting 2 wounds

The dots are connecting at I bet all what you want that the chaos special forces (berzerks. plague marines, and noise marines, TS) will get 2 wounds

as well.

That would explain why the costs for our plague marines did increase on the top of an already steep price.

That would also explain the rumors made a while ago about 2 wounds for the cult chaos space marines.

[dice4thedicegod]

Presumably though , there will be updated points when this takes effect (I.e the current 23 point cost of terminators is for 2 wounds and they will increase when the codex comes out and they get bumped to 3)

[Karhedron]

That is what is unclear at this point. Do the prices in the 2020 MFM have these new stats built in? I strongly suspect that some of them do as weapons like Multimeltas went up in price despite the fact most people already considered them a poor choice. Now suddenly we discover that MMs are getting Heavy 2 and +2 Damage and new price makes total sense.

 

The new Blade Guard Veterans clock in at 35 ppm for 3 Wounds, 2+/4++, and an S5, AP-3, 2D melee weapon and a heavy bolt pistol. A terminator costs 36 points for X wounds, 2+/5++, S8, AP-3 2D melee weapon (with -1 to Hit) but also a Storm Bolter. Even at 3 Wounds, a Terminator would cost more than a BGV. The BGV has the edge on durability and movement while the Terminator has better firepower and Teleport.

 

Personally I think Terminators will remain the same price. If they go up by much then BGV will totally outclass them, rather spoiling the point of buffing them.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Karhedron

[dice4thedicegod]

That is what is unclear at this point. Do the prices in the 2020 MFM have these new stats built in? I strongly suspect that some of them do as weapons like Multimeltas went up in price despite the fact most people already considered them a poor choice. Now suddenly we discover that MMs are getting Heavy 2 and +2 Damage and new price makes total sense.

 

The new Blade Guard Veterans clock in at 35 ppm for 3 Wounds, 2+/4++, and an S5, AP-3, 2D melee weapon and a heavy bolt pistol. A terminator costs 36 points for X wounds, 2+/5++, S8, AP-3 2D melee weapon (with -1 to Hit) but also a Storm Bolter. Even at 3 Wounds, a Terminator would cost more than a BGV. The BGV has the edge on durability and movement while the Terminator has better firepower and Teleport.

 

Personally I think Terminators will remain the same price. If they go up by much then BGV will totally outclass them, rather spoiling the point of buffing them.

That’s possible... but if that happens then marines just became even more broken compared to every other faction (unless they get stuff too... whenever their codexes finally arrive)

Also, blade guard veterans make me feel more sad for Custodes than for terminators!

[dice4thedicegod]

Based on today’s announcement it is confirmed that points will be adjusted when the codex is released (ie a tactical marine is going from 15 to 18, which seems fair).

 

Speculation: maybe vanilla termies go from 23 to 28?

Edited August 13, 2020 by dice4thedicegod

[Plague _Lord]

It has happened! My Land Raider rejoices in D2 twin heavy bolter :)

[ThatOneMarshal]

Plague marines finally have the statline that they always deserved.

[WickedJester1013]

Melta on those darn little haulers might make a decent killer, if missle launchers get boosted as well all the better

[Plaguecaster]

The changes to melts are pretty amazing

May actually take heavy meltas on my helbrutes now

Just wish there was a way to take heavy meltas on plague marines as that would make plague marine squads so deadly giving serious antitank abilities

[Bulwyf]

two wound plague marines!! 3 wound blightlords! Oh man when will this be official?

[Special Officer Doofy]

The datasheet in their new boxes will have it. Then followed by their codex.

[WickedJester1013]

Always found it odd that plague marines don’t use basic issue guns like heavy bolters and meltas yet they are found in random weapon options. Meltas and rockets on the haulers, but plasma on the troops where as termies get Combi plasma? It’s like they lost half their warhead when they went into the eye of terror lol

[TrawlingCleaner]

If the multimelta changes are applied to normal meltas I actually think there's a big reason to take them over plasma, we have the troops to slog up the board close enough to blast stuff. Sure plasma is reliable damage but melta may become an option too

[Special Officer Doofy]

I'm so happy plague marines are going to 2W. Anyone got guesses as to a new point cost? Obviously more than 18 but how much more than 20? We have 1 more toughness than a Primaris and DR, but have 1 less move, 1 less attack, and weaker, less ranged free bolt weapons (although I heard bolt guns now might get -1ap, and I have no idea what to believe anymore). Hmmmm

[Raktra]

Boltguns are staying AP-, but going to 30” from the leaks. So we got the range, but no base AP. But our fancy PA stuff helps patch that, so I’m more than happy.

[dice4thedicegod]

30” range for all boltguns kinda sucks though... it devalues the rapid fire from 18”

[Special Officer Doofy]

That's what I heard, the 30" range, not the ap, my bad haha. Deathguard's trait will be reworked when they get a codex anyways, doubt it will stay the same. I like the advance and no penalty to assault weapons part though.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Always found it odd that plague marines don’t use basic issue guns like heavy bolters and meltas yet they are found in random weapon options. Meltas and rockets on the haulers, but plasma on the troops where as termies get Combi plasma? It’s like they lost half their warhead when they went into the eye of terror lol

 

Because the 3.5 codex decided to change it so that Plague Marines could only use special weapons, not heavy, and it's stuck since then.

[Special Officer Doofy]

Can't wait for the 2W plague marines. Was playing against my brother's admech, his Kastelan Robots next to Cawls reroll all shots getting 18 S6 shots a peice just mess up plague marines. Going to 2W will help, and I doubt Kastelans will get the <Core> keyword for rerolls. But speaking of, that hurts our Daemon Princes alot, not being able to give themselves rerolls when the codex comes out. I had one on foot with the sword wreck his robots and one with wings and talons wreck two armigers. Prince's always do my heavy lifting.

[Plague _Lord]

Well statistically u'll only get 1 miss on average so it doesn't hurt that much. Hurts smash caps much more.

 

I think arch contaminator will still work on everything. Our plague weapons give us a huge buff vs other armies' similiar abilities like lt. Auras.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I don't see arch contaminator changing, it's targeting weapons more so than units. At least I hope it doesn't change.