Most powerful non-Astartes humans (fluff)

[Indefragable]

I know this topic crops up every so often, but with the announcement of a book focusing on the Dark Angel's favorite cellar pet Luther, my mind got thinking about the topic.

 

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Who are the most "powerful" non-Astartes in the setting?

 

Power in this case can be either skill in some art of war, generalship, or some other non-psyker category that the fluff says a Space Marine should surpass them quite easily.

 

NOTE:

While technically Adeptus Custodes and Adeptus Mechanicus count in this category, I want to focus on "normal" humans as much as possible. 

 

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Adepta Sororitas: including on a technicality, since while they fit the criteria above, they are kind of their own thing and pseudo-SM in their own right, so I'm deliberately skipping over them. 

 

Khalid Hassan: features in a handful of short stories (can't recall if he shows up in Praetorian of Dorn) as Malcador's go-to personal commando. He comes off as realistic-feeling present-day commando who happens to be in the setting. The manner he conducts himself, both with Malcador and in the field, comes across as extremely competent and effective, not because of any special gift or enhancement, but rather because he is a superb warrior and highly intelligent in his craft. Though there is arguably more fantasy than sci-fi to 40k, all the more interesting for being the space marine trope without being a Space Marine in a great way. Which leads me to....

 

Kasrkin: if rule-of-cool translated to in-game stats, these guys would have a re-rollable 2+ in everything. To this day perhaps the coolest models GW has ever made with awesome fluff to boot. For those unaware, back in the day the Imperial Guard had Storm Troopers, who were the analogue to Militarum Tempestus Scions, who would go on to replace these guys in the game, opening them up as a separate sub-faction. The Cadians had their own unique brand of Storm Trooper, however, known as Kasrkin and they were awesome. Basically the lore was that they were essentially regularly humans meant to kill (Chaos) Space Marines. Mind you that's not "hold on for dear life, overwhelm them, and hopefully more of us are standing then them..." ...it's "there are CSM over there. Suit up, we're taking them down." With Cadia being the wall holding back the Eye of Terror, and 13 separate attempts by the CSM to take it, the Kasrkin were pretty much the dudes in the Imperium with the most experience fighting (and beating!) CSM in straight up fights outside of other SM and snowflakes like assassins or Inquisitors. 

 

Esad Wire: a non-clade-aligned assassin and chosen "doer" by the Grand Master of Assassins in the Beast Arises novel series. He is able to hold his own 1:1 with a Harlequin Solitaire among other impressive feats. One gets the impression that he truly is a remarkable specimen of humanity, even before assassin-level modifications. And so in many ways he represents...

 

Ordo Assassinorum: I'm including this as a catch-all, even though they kinda don't qualify in some ways....each assassin is just as enhanced as a Space Marine in their own way. So I'm including on a technicality. 

 

Colonel "Iron Hand" Straken: ok, so you could just say "Catachan" for this topic and leave it at that. Yet even among that planet of biceps, Straken's stands apart. I'll let the official lore speak for itself, but suffice to say for a long time his in-game stats showed him as having Flak Armor (5+ save) yet he specifically had a 3+ saving throw. Abs of steel indeed.

 

The Inquisition: only the Alpha Legion get more of a blank check plot-wise in terms of their capabilities doing whatever the heck the writer wants as needed. 

 

​The Generals: I'm putting this as a blanket category since there have been many unaugmented humans in positions of leadership that have been exceptional commanders in one way or another. I will go back and add them by name when I can, but Marcharius and Creed are the first to leap to mind. 

 

Sisters of Silence: supremely gifted combatants, even before you take their specific null gifts into effect. 

 

 

 

What else you got? 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Indefragable

[Doghouse]

Sly Marbo.

[Marshal Loss]

Fabius Bile's creations would have to be up there.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

The aid from Ciaphas Cain.

[Scammel]

'Try Again' Bragg was S4 back in 3rd edition, when stat lines were ultra-conservative (like, Daemon Princes with 3A, Calgar with WS5...).

[Brother Tyler]

The Adeptus Custodes in terms of sheer physical might, surpassing the Adeptus Astartes (though not reaching the level of the Primarchs).

 

Rogue traders are roughly comparable with others at the highest levels, such as Inquisitors and the Chapter Masters of the Adeptus Astartes, especially when operating within the remit of their warrant of trade.

[Trokair]

Belisarius Cawl anybody?

 

There there are Gaunts Ghost and Eisenhorn and co, who while individualy are jsut very good humans collectivly seems so much more. 

[Darkwrath121]

Sisters of Silence, when talking purely 'human', though they undergo/underwent heavy chem-therapies and indoctrination. Dark Imperium 2 gives us a good look at just how terrifying they might be to face, even for otherwise elite forces.

 

A higher ranking Battle Sister begins to feel fear while trying to keep up with one in 1 on 1 combat, and being utterly outmatched.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Darkwrath121

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

Sisters of Silence, when talking purely 'human', though they undergo/underwent heavy chem-therapies and indoctrination. Dark Imperium 2 gives us a good look at just how terrifying they might be to face, even for otherwise elite and high ranking forces.

 

A higher ranking Battle Sister begins to feel fear while trying to keep up with one in 1 on 1 combat, and being utterly outmatched.

Not to mention they are psychic blanks and are terrifying to be around just due to that.

 

I think we'd have to mention the assassin temples as well, particularly the Eversor Temple.

[ArielRSA]

Does The Emperor count? Otherwise I’d probably say human chaos sorcerers if that’s a thing in 40K

 

Edited to add second point

Edited August 12, 2020 by ArielRSA

[Brother Sergeant Tiberius]

Mkvenner from tanith gave a good but whooping to whoever he faced using his naleesh(sp?) training.

Creed for the generalship part of your question.

Yarrik also gives a good account for a human fighting the orks.

[Indefragable]

Sly Marbo.

 

I didn't see him standing over there. 

 

Good call! 

 

Fabius Bile's creations would have to be up there.

 

Any examples to share? 

 

The aid from Ciaphas Cain.

 

Description for those of us who have not read those books? 

 

'Try Again' Bragg was S4 back in 3rd edition, when stat lines were ultra-conservative (like, Daemon Princes with 3A, Calgar with WS5...).

 

Any anecdotes to share (for anyone who might not have read the Gaunt's Ghosts series)? 

 

The Adeptus Custodes in terms of sheer physical might, surpassing the Adeptus Astartes (though not reaching the level of the Primarchs).

 

Rogue traders are roughly comparable with others at the highest levels, such as Inquisitors and the Chapter Masters of the Adeptus Astartes, especially when operating within the remit of their warrant of trade.

 

So....I would exclude Custodes because...yea. Do I have to explain? They are basically super-Astartes even if how and why they are made is totally different. I would put them in the same category as psykers  in the sense that they are non-Astartes, but just a whole different thing.

 

Rogue Traders. Hmmm.....more details? 

 

Belisarius Cawl anybody?

 

There there are Gaunts Ghost and Eisenhorn and co, who while individualy are jsut very good humans collectivly seems so much more. 

 

Ok, I should have specified my criteria more. I would put AdMech into the Adeptus Custodes and psykers category since AdMech are not SM, but definitely not baseline human. 

 

RE: Gaunt's Ghosts and Eisenhorn's crew...is their prowess (in any way) due to it being their show, so to speak, or is there something about them or their members makes them reliably above and beyond human expectation? For example, what makes the Kasrkin or Hassan so interesting (at least to me) is that they are expected to reliably take down SM on a regular basis despite their own "pure" humanity. It's not just a narrative tool, but rather in-setting they seem to be a strategic asset for that purpose. 

 

Sisters of Silence, when talking purely 'human', though they undergo/underwent heavy chem-therapies and indoctrination. Dark Imperium 2 gives us a good look at just how terrifying they might be to face, even for otherwise elite and high ranking forces.

 

A higher ranking Battle Sister begins to feel fear while trying to keep up with one in 1 on 1 combat, and being utterly outmatched.

 

True...but should they go into (the seemingly ever-expanding...) AdMech + Custodes + psykers category since SoS' ability is in part their unique genetics (pariah gene)? Has it ever been explored how much of their impressive battlefield capabilities are due to the disturbance their very presence causes, or how much it is due to their simply supreme martial acumen? 

[WrathOfTheLion]

Kor Phaeron could be up there as well, being essentially in charge of the Word Bearers legion and being a quite competent general. At least in the Heresy, he runs around in terminator armor as well.

[Darkwrath121]

True...but should they go into (the seemingly ever-expanding...) AdMech + Custodes + psykers category since SoS' ability is in part their unique genetics (pariah gene)? Has it ever been explored how much of their impressive battlefield capabilities are due to the disturbance their very presence causes, or how much it is due to their simply supreme martial acumen?

Their null nature is an asset, and can be weaponised, but they're trained to an absurd degree for a human (therapies aside). They're able to outmanoeuvre and take on space marines in melee (they can use their agility, enhanced by their vratine armour, and size to not get squished), and Regent's Shadow mentions them as able to evade and even parry lasfire with their blades. Wonderfully over-the-top, but it is what it is! Haha

Edited August 12, 2020 by Darkwrath121

[Brother Sergeant Tiberius]

Their is probably an element of it being their show with gaunt and Essendon groups, but no more than marines when its their books.

Try again Bragg runs around with a heavy bolter without it slowing him down. Dude might aswell be an ogryn.

MkVenner has the training from the Naleesh scout/woodsman people which was borderline mystical capabilities but he didn't finish training before tanith got nuked. He did take out a chaos dreadnought, it was wounded(blinded if I memberberry rjght) by using grenades and the natural environment. They had to fight blood pact guard and many nasty alien/psyker threats but yeah some plot armour happens but they do get messed up bad alot

[Brother Tyler]

 

The Adeptus Custodes in terms of sheer physical might, surpassing the Adeptus Astartes (though not reaching the level of the Primarchs).

 

Rogue traders are roughly comparable with others at the highest levels, such as Inquisitors and the Chapter Masters of the Adeptus Astartes, especially when operating within the remit of their warrant of trade.

 

So....I would exclude Custodes because...yea. Do I have to explain? They are basically super-Astartes even if how and why they are made is totally different. I would put them in the same category as psykers  in the sense that they are non-Astartes, but just a whole different thing.

 

So when you posed the following question...

"Who are the most "powerful" non-Astartes in the setting?"

...what you really meant was "who are the most "powerful" non-transhumans in the setting?"  

 

Rogue Traders. Hmmm.....more details?

 

...The Warrant [of Trade] also elevates the recipient to the highest of ranks to which a servant may rise, granting him equivalent status with such men and women as Imperial Commanders, Inquisitors and Space Marine Chapter Masters. They are granted the power to deal with such peers of the Imperium as equals, and the Warrant allowing them to call upon what aid they can negotiate.

 

While the Warrant of Trade confers upon its bearer tremendous privileges, it is when the Rogue Trader passes beyond the borders of the Imperium that the true power of the Warrant becomes manifest. Within the Imperium, Rogue Traders move within the established power structures of the Imperium. Outside of the Imperium, Rogue Traders define those structures themselves. Indeed, it has been said that the Rogue Trader speaks with the authority of the Emperor Himself beyond the Fringes.

 

Furthermore, the Warrant of Trade grants enormous rights to the recipient, allowing him to claim by conquest whatever worlds and privileges he may obtain in whatever manner he wishes to do so.

[Indefragable]

Kor Phaeron could be up there as well, being essentially in charge of the Word Bearers legion and being a quite competent general. At least in the Heresy, he runs around in terminator armor as well.

 

Yes...................................................I guess he counts....I'm torn because even though Kor Phaeron did not get the full Astartes treatment, he is a commander in an Astartes Legion and wears Terminator armor..................let's take a commercial break while we check with the judges.

 

 

True...but should they go into (the seemingly ever-expanding...) AdMech + Custodes + psykers category since SoS' ability is in part their unique genetics (pariah gene)? Has it ever been explored how much of their impressive battlefield capabilities are due to the disturbance their very presence causes, or how much it is due to their simply supreme martial acumen?

Their null nature is an asset, and can be weaponised, but they're trained to an absurd degree for a human (therapies aside). They're able to outmanoeuvre and take on space marines in melee (they can use their agility, enhanced by their vratine armour, and size to not get squished), and Regent's Shadow mentions them as able to evade and even parry lasfire with their blades. Wonderfully over-the-top, but it is what it is! Haha

 

 

Yea, ok I'll allow it. Good call. 

 

Their is probably an element of it being their show with gaunt and Essendon groups, but no more than marines when its their books.

Try again Bragg runs around with a heavy bolter without it slowing him down. Dude might aswell be an ogryn.

MkVenner has the training from the Naleesh scout/woodsman people which was borderline mystical capabilities but he didn't finish training before tanith got nuked. He did take out a chaos dreadnought, it was wounded(blinded if I memberberry rjght) by using grenades and the natural environment. They had to fight blood pact guard and many nasty alien/psyker threats but yeah some plot armour happens but they do get messed up bad alot

 

Plot armors happen to everyone at some point, so it's not a knock. I'm just trying to suss out the difference between "hey remember that one time Bob killed a space marine?" and "whoa. Bob eats space marines for breakfast." kind of stuff. 

 

I haven't read enough of the Gaunt's Ghosts books: Bragg sounds like Sgt. Harker (I wonder if one inspired the other) and how reliable is it for either Bragg of MkVenner to do the things they do? Are they like melta guns against a vehicle or a lasgun shot that rolls lucky 6's all the time? 

 

 

<snip> 

 

So when you posed the following question...

"Who are the most "powerful" non-Astartes in the setting?"

...what you really meant was "who are the most "powerful" non-transhumans in the setting?"  

 

Rogue Traders. Hmmm.....more details?

 

...The Warrant [of Trade] also elevates the recipient to the highest of ranks to which a servant may rise, granting him equivalent status with such men and women as Imperial Commanders, Inquisitors and Space Marine Chapter Masters. They are granted the power to deal with such peers of the Imperium as equals, and the Warrant allowing them to call upon what aid they can negotiate.

 

While the Warrant of Trade confers upon its bearer tremendous privileges, it is when the Rogue Trader passes beyond the borders of the Imperium that the true power of the Warrant becomes manifest. Within the Imperium, Rogue Traders move within the established power structures of the Imperium. Outside of the Imperium, Rogue Traders define those structures themselves. Indeed, it has been said that the Rogue Trader speaks with the authority of the Emperor Himself beyond the Fringes.

 

Furthermore, the Warrant of Trade grants enormous rights to the recipient, allowing him to claim by conquest whatever worlds and privileges he may obtain in whatever manner he wishes to do so.

 

 

Yes about the Custodes. I should have specified. 

 

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Interesting about the Rogue Traders. I remembered snippets of it. So, that would put them kinda sorta into the Generals category: supreme skill at commanding or leading folks.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

[quote name="Indefragable" post="

 

The aid from Ciaphas Cain.

 

 

Description for those of us who have not read those books? 

 

 

Jurgen. Psychic null with uncanny ability to get out of hot situations. 40K Baldrick for the black adder fans

[Trokair]

If you are going with baseline human and ignoring transhumans , modified humans psykers and such then you really need to define what baseline means. The setting being what it is there a very few baseline humans and most notable people will have some form of extra just to become notable.

 

For example Commissar Yarrick, has both implants and Ork belief keeping him going.

 

Not sure if this counts in your definition, but Living Saints might count, such as Saint Sabbat.

 

I would also like to add Lord Commander Solar Macharius to the list of suggestions.

[MARK0SIAN]

Harlon Nayl is pretty hardcore in the books. For a baseline human he holds his own against a lot of stuff.

[gaurdian31]

I would like to add Yasu Nagaena from the Heresy era.

 

Here's his Lexicanum page: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Yasu_Nagasena

[MegaVolt87]

Do ogryns + beastmen count? They are technicaly human from a baseline view as they are tolerated by the Imperium.

[tangoalphatwo]

I would think certain members of the Assassinorum. They’re pretty much monsters on the table top and have done some insane :cuss lore wise too if I remember.

[Gederas]

 

 

The aid from Ciaphas Cain.

Description for those of us who have not read those books?

Gunner Jurgen is a low-level Blank. Not on the outright level of Sisters of Silence, but people find him weird and are uncomfortable around him (outside of Cain, but Cain likes Jurgen because Jurgen keeps saving Cain's bacon). It's unclear if people's repulsion of Jurgen is because of him being a Blank or because of his horrendously poor personal hygiene (seriously, he can give a Nurgle cultist a run for their money).

 

However, he's a strong enough Blank to cause a psyker (and an Inquisitor's one at that!) to outright start having seizures when he was within the same room as her, basically makes Cain immune to psychic shenanigans when he's nearby, and his mere presence made a Daemon Prince become "mortal" enough for Cain and Jurgen to kill her.

 

If we're bringing up the Ciaphas Cain series, Cain himself is no slouch. As he's "only" a Commissar, but he's able to keep up with Astartes and actually 1v1'd a Khorne Berzerker. And his preferred weapons are a Laspistol and Chainsword.

 

He's basically Baldrick to Cain's Blackadder

Edited August 14, 2020 by Gederas

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

The aid from Ciaphas Cain.

Ah, Gunner Jurgen. A most lovable character IMO.

 

 

 

The aid from Ciaphas Cain.

 

Description for those of us who have not read those books? 

 

 

Gunner Ferik Jurgen is Cain's personal aide, driver, tanna producer, gear holder, grub acquirer, anti-psychic-nonsense-er, meltagunner, secretary, backup, and a million and one other things. As mentioned, he is a blank, and is under the protection of Amberly Vail (because he's an incredible asset, which in her opinion go to waste as a part of the Ordo Maelleus). This has saved Cain's bacon multiple times, especially when tyranids and genestealers are concerned. He drives like a madman (though he hates flying and gets airsick as a matter of course), and is capable of operating ork vehicles almost as good as they can. His driving style can be eloquently put as suicidal, except it always manages to work out somehow with the two of them not dead. I recall he was able to drive one guard vehicle or another (most likely a Salamander) up a trygon tunnel to get to the surface. 

 

Except in situations such as literally stranded on a desert planet miles from any friendlies, he can always (always) find food for himself and Cain, and usually manages to throw some bowls of Tanna (a type of Valhallan tea that nobody except valhallans and Cain drink due to its taste) in the mix. His cargo webbing covers almost his entire body, which is always stuffed with grenades, ration bars, an entertainment slate or two to keep himself busy, a meltagun except in tight situations (or whenever the author decides its a bit to overpowered for the start of a book), extra powerpacks, and his lasgun.

 

As also noted, he has horrendous psoriasis, has a shaving exemption, and terrible hygiene in general, which he uses to his and Cain's advantage to keep all but the most dogged inquirers from Cain's office, so that the good commissar can sleep, entertain guests, or do actual paperwork once in a blue moon. His demeanor aids in this task, as he is also stupendously single-minded, and a master of understatement if I recall.

 

He's the guy that never gets any of the glory for his role in the action, and doesn't mind that fact, so long as Cain and himself are both alive and still able to thank the emperor for it. Ciaphas finds him tremendously useful, and has something of a soft spot for him, to the point that Jurgen received juvenant treatments along with Cain (courtesy of Inquisitor Vail) to stay in fighting shape even after their assignment to the Schola at Perlia for semiretirement.