Secondary Objectives and You

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Hail Brethren!

I was curious to know if any of you feel that any of the secondary objectives is a must have for us.

Im kind of leaning to taking the ritual action one. Seems easy enough for some SoT to pull off.

[Archaeinox]

The only concrete answer I can give is that Engage On All Fronts and Grind Them Down has worked out very well for me in a variety of 9th games. I have avoided any Action-based secondaries. Maybe I'm unsure, or whatever, but in any case I can't seem to get a feel for them so I don't try them. They seem intimidating. I cannot afford to give up my units. They all have a job.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Archaeinox

[MillionsSons]

I feel same as you Archa’. I prefer to focus on secondary who synergize a little bit with what’s going on the battlefield

[Are Verlo]

This has been my experience as well. Rise banners (action) and all psychic actions are potential traps stopping «elite» units and psychers from shooting/charging and manifesting powers respectively.

 

One game I had both rise the banners and mental interrogaton. My army would have been much better off taking attrition/grind them down and some form of board control.

[Prot]

The only concrete answer I can give is that Engage On All Fronts and Grind Them Down has worked out very well for me in a variety of 9th games. I have avoided any Action-based secondaries. Maybe I'm unsure, or whatever, but in any case I can't seem to get a feel for them so I don't try them. They seem intimidating. I cannot afford to give up my units. They all have a job.

 

I found this out through trial and error in the early days of 9th ed. Now being about 25 games into 9th, I don't have an army suited to Actions. My personal opinion is unless you have a fair amount of 'expendable' troops, it's not worth it. Most 9th ed Thousand Sons players aren't relying on Cultists near as much as 8th ed. Most armies I see -successfully- running with Actions Secondaries are those that can fill out a large foot print of pleb units. 

 

The thing I still don't understand is I have opponents that think you can do other things while doing the Psychic WarpCraft actions, and I guess I read it differently. I'm still unsure. 

[The Yncarne]

I’m leaning towards board control options but don’t know what else to consider. I’m looking forward to more experienced thoughts.

[MasterDeath]

Step 0: Choose Ritual

Step 1: Summon Herald of Tzeentch into the center turn 1

Step 2: Summon a bunch of multiplying Horrors around that Herald

Step 3:...

Step 4: Profit

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

So i gave ritual, engage all fronts and grind them down a try last night.

Secondaries really do affect method kf play and as much as i loved engage i hated ritual. Grind them down was OK, but i think i would prefer first strike instead, however i find it difficult to kill more than being killed in the first turn.

What have your experiences been?

Edited August 15, 2020 by Dolchiate Remembrancer

[Sorceress]

I haven't gotten much play in but I do feel like the psychic actions are a trap for armies like thousand sons giving up the usefulness of a 100 point HQ for most or all of the game to do something that might fail and might get denied.

[Ulfast]

Exacly my thoughts too. Stay so far as possibly from the psychic actions as they will  "steal" a very important character from you. Perhaps if you have a shaman doing nothing it could be intersting butI very few time has one of them.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Agreed.

And here is my fear: our codex will be filled with them!

[Zodd1888]

If you can be denied it shouldn't take away from our ability to do other things, IMO.

 

That said, maybe it'll be a trait of ours to complete Psychic Actions and still cast?

 

That'd be nice.

[Umbros]

I actually managed to max out on Pierce the Veil! I don't necessarily recommend it, but in a cult of duplicty force it can work well.

[Sorceress]

it seems really tough to teleport or webway a unit to the enemy board edge on turn two as well as a sorcerer to hope you can successfully stay away from the enemy stay near there edge and not get countered or blasted off the board first. it might be worth it if there is a objective near by for your support unit to hold whail your sorcerer is busy. 

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Another game, another experience.

I am loving engage on all fronts. Very easy 3 points a turn to get.

Still undecided on my two other objectives. I gave First Strike a try but my opponent got a chance to reposition which stopped me from killing anything first turn. I also gave assassinate a try but being able to effectively kill characters needs a better plan than an all comers list.

So back to the drawing board.

[Archaeinox]

Hey so since Aug 12 I have had tons more games in so I wanted to mention Secondaries. I should mention that I have been taking Grind Them Down and Engage On All Fronts in most of my games. 

 

I have not had any success after selecting any of the mission-specific secondaries. It could be my own fault, but in any case I won't be trying to take them anymore.

[casb1965]

If you can be denied it shouldn't take away from our ability to do other things, IMO.

 

That said, maybe it'll be a trait of ours to complete Psychic Actions and still cast?

 

That'd be nice.

 

I don't see anywhere that says completing a Psychic Action prevents casting, to me if you have a psyker who can manifest n-number of powers they can manifest n-1 powers then use their last cast on the Psychic Action.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

It says under the rules section for performing psychic actions that they are instead of manifesting any psychic powers.

[Sorceress]

worse the grand tournament faq says that psychic ritual must be completed three times by the same unit to work.

[casb1965]

It says under the rules section for performing psychic actions that they are instead of manifesting any psychic powers.

 

Got it, not sure how I missed that.

[Prot]

According to 40K stats, the least used (and I mean really least used) secondary is the Psychic action one. 

 

I can see now by the two codexes that are out right now, that I have a strong suspicion we will see a much better variant of this in the Codex refresh.

[Are Verlo]

I finally found the time and energy to play some games after the last GT where I played Slaanesh.

 

In the meantime I did some theory crafting, because as we all have found out, 1KS and secondaries can be tricky.

 

There are 5 categories. 2 of these categories mostly include action-based secondaries and unless you tailor your list to include action-monkeys like min tzaangors or even cultists, it is probably wise to avoid having the expensive 1KS units halt to do actions. We cant afford to have a 20- man or even 10-man unit stop to do actions early game. Lategame perhaps, but early my units are contributing to the primary or denying the enemy VPs by killing or pinning in place (by CC for instance).

 

When 2 categories are out of the question (see more below) that leaves 3 catagories and we are "forced" to take 1 secondary from each of those.

 

 

1. "Purge the Enemy"

Assassinate is situational and often a trap. 

Bring it down is situational and depend on what your/opponend brings.

 

But there are few lists that can completely avoid both of those.

 

2. "No mercy, no respite"

I have found attrition to be doable when i play a list with no msu. 10+ rubrics, 30 strong herds and 10 terminators. 

Thin their ranks often gives 10-ish VPs, not stellarm but ok.

While we stand we fight, can be done, but it is really hard. I

 

3.  

 

Engange on all fronts- can be good, but in order to max it, you have to go for it turn 1.-

Linebreaker on the other hand can be maxed by scoring turn 2 -5 and will give a decent score 12 if you score it turn 3 -5. 

 

So in the recent tests what worked well was: Linebreaker, thin their ranks and if possible bring it down (or assassinate if the opponent has many characters, such as both Hqs and Elites)

When possible take the mission-spesific secondary- if they are NOT action based.

 

in the next few games, I´ll try to include some action-monkeys such as tzaangors and/or cultists to see of they offer flexibilty, since that opens up the "shadow operations". BTW I wish the 1KS could take dark disciples! They are awesome for action-based secondaries :-DD

 

Edit: spelling/grammar

Edited October 26, 2020 by Are Verlo

[Archaeinox]

Im pretty happy we will have our own secondaries in a codex. SM get them i think Edited October 27, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Prot]

Im pretty happy we will have our own secondaries in a codex. SM get them i think

 

Yes. Necrons have 1 very good one, and SM have 1 very good one. To quote myself:

 

 

 

I can see now by the two codexes that are out right now, that I have a strong suspicion we will see a much better variant of this in the Codex refresh.

 

I'm willing to bet we get a variant of Psychic Ritual that is finally going to be a 'good' reason to bring a psyker when regarding secondaries!

[Zodd1888]

I'd be happy with a 1CP Strat to allow the Psyker to act normally (shoot/cast/etc.).

 

Block of Rubrics or Scarabs could survive for 2 turns minimum and for 2 CP that's a good chunk of secondary points, with a high likelihood to get the turn 3.