Biggest winners from the 2 wound marine/weapons update?

[TheNewman]

I think it's a little too early to judge because we don't know points or even all of the changes to existing gear. Hopefully the internal balance is much better and in that case the big winners are the players.

We don't get to be the big winners unless the external balance is much better as well.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

I think it's a little too early to judge because we don't know points or even all of the changes to existing gear. Hopefully the internal balance is much better and in that case the big winners are the players.

We don't get to be the big winners unless the external balance is much better as well.

I don't think the external balance will improve much until they start making internal balance a bigger priority. The competitive meta is defined by the outliers, the strongest fractions just tend to have more.

 

I will say that psychic awakening feels like a failure to me because they raised the other armies up to the point marines were at before doctrines (so effectively left them behind Marines and Sisters who also recieved a doctrine style bonus).

[Captain Idaho]

Blimey, 2 wound Death Company is a good shout. My friend is a competitive BA player so I guess I'm in trouble!

 

To me, Tactical Marines are the biggest winners, followed by Sternguard and Terminators. Devastators and Vanguard were already good, Company Veterans quite good and Assault Marines I'm not sure yet...

 

The thing about Tactical Marines is also that you won't just have a single Heavy or special weapon in any squad below 10 models. Likely you'll also add a Combi weapon, even if it's just a Storm Bolter, to the Sergeant. This further increases the offensive output of the squad for relatively cheaper cost.

[Mandragola]

5 Stalker shots vs 3 Heavy Bolter shots and 8 boltgun shots, not 4. They're going to be standing on a back-field objective, that's what those squads do.

 

You're right that one isn't really obviously better than the other, but given the choice between an entirely specialist squad and one that is almost as good on the prime target and can still switch-hit into other target types I'm going to take the more flexible squad most of the time.

I'm not convinced they'll always get to fire 8 bolter shots. That assumes a target within 24" and LoS without moving. You won't always get that. If you do, your capability in melee is likely to become relevant before too long.

 

Which option is better is likely to depend on what chapter you play. Salamanders are likely to want a tactical squad with a multimelta, to use their master artisans trait on, for example. My Fists probably want more heavy shots to fire at vehicles on turn 1.

 

Rhinos are a clear advantage for tactical squads. The ability to move 20 wounds worth of obsec marines up the board in relative safety is a big deal. It's probably a bigger deal for stuff like khorne berzerkers and plague marines though. I wouldn't want to be a tactical marine if that was coming towards me, and I doubt I'd be much happier as an Intercessor.

[Gothical]

I am pretty happy with the changes, and feel both my Space Marine armies will benefit*, but my First-Born Salamanders are in a very happy place right now (points costs still to be seen).

 

Having extra durability across all models will help them get to/shine in close-ranged combat, since it is going to reduce the amount of "incidental" casualties from small-arms fire whilst my particular preferred weapons are getting a buff in that 12" deathzone. I tend to take 10-man Tacticals with a Flamer and Multi-Melta (variable Sergeant wargear, Rhino transport) and both those weapons have seen boosts which will be excellent in the context of the Tactical Squad - the Flamer now gets 12" range to match that of the Boltguns rapid-firing, whilst the Multi-Melta has picked up an additional shot (and is most powerful at 12" too) to help deter vehicles/monsters from approaching the objective.

 

Terminators are going to rock, both the Assault version becoming absolute anvils (as they should be), but the "tactical" version are interesting too, especially with a 12" Heavy Flamer - though I am not sure how it will stack up mathematically against Cyclone Missile Launcher + Storm Bolter - allowing them some serious drop-and-pop firepower. All I need is them to let us have 2 Heavies in a 5-man unit and I will be in Terminator heaven (ok, Salamanders a long, long time ago could mix TH&SS Terminators with normal ones, and that was great but won't happen again lol).

 

2-wounds and 12" Heavy Flamers might see the return of Drop Pod Sternguard too - the longer Bolter range makes sense now that you are more likely to survive the initial deployment turn and could want the range to reach out to other enemy units further away whilst they capitalise on an objective or action or what-have-you.

 

The classic Predator Destructor built is also going to be worth looking at again. Between the powerful and fairly reliable Predator Autocannon and the Heavy Bolters gaining a point of damage it suddenly becomes a very potent (new)MEQ killer and can still threaten light vehicles thanks to minimum S5 weapons. It may not do anti-horde like the Whirlwind or Thunderfire, or anti-tank/monster like the Vindicator or Predator Annihilator, but it now has a niche against an extremely common statline.

 

Devastators in Drop Pods become killer and it is going to be a choice between Multi-Meltas and Grav-Cannons, whilst you now don't need ablative bolter-bodies in a squad that is holding back with Heavy Bolters, Lascannons or potentially Plasma Cannons.

 

MM/HF Land Speeders really will become toasters-of-doom, able to threaten infantry from a fairly safe distance and getting the additional anti-tank shot.

 

 

My Primaris White Scars (successors) aren't bothered that the Firstborn Marines are becoming more viable; I still love the old Marines models and I love the new Primaris models, but when you put them together the flaws of both designs become more apparent, therefore I run my Primaris models as an entirely different army.

 

 

*My Sisters are in hysterics about how great some of their units have become due to weapon changes, my Iron Warriors are pleased and looking forwards to seeing what else changes weapon-wise that will be ported over eventually, and my Guard and Dark Eldar are both sweating nervously because damn Marines of all stripes will be hard to take down now.

[Mandragola]

It’s definitely looki like a good time to play salamanders. Between the buffs to flamers and meltas, the new Eradicators, gladiator and invader armed with them and their efficient tactical squads getting 2 wounds, they’ve picked up a whole pile of buffs.

 

Maybe one day, say in 3-4 years, someone will accidentally buy a box of reivers and we’ll all find out they’ve been buffed to become incredibly powerful. Wouldn’t that be something?

[jimbo1701]

As a long-time player with a lot of firstborn armies I’m totally in love with all the changes. Specially place in my heart for assault marines though and love the idea that I can now drop them in turn 2 and be able to flame things or turn 3 and be able to get -1 to my pistols and -2 to chainswords with some durability.

 

Will be interesting to see how many wounds the likes of land speeders and bikes get. I’m going to assume bikes will be 3, attack bikes will be 5-6 and land speeders 7-8

Edited August 15, 2020 by jimbo1701

[Volt]

I'd say Dark Angels Company Vets or Deathwatch vets are the biggest winners as you can slap storm shields on them while also handing out special weapons like plasma spam. Now they're functionally as durable as terminators used to be and are a useful means to harass the enemy from the backfield or camp on top of rearward objective.

[Marshal Arthur]

Templar company vets. If our characters take wounds the vets can intercept them and take a mortal wound in the character’s place. We already get a 5+++ against mortals and now we’ve doubled the amount of wounds they can absorb.