Codex Speculation for 9th Redux

[Splog]

I’ve been waiting years for the Gravis Troop choice, so I’m pleased. Just need a rune priest in Gravis before I can go full Gravis..

 

(Mutters about how good Ragnar and Bladeguard are)

 

The Heavy Intercessors have the range to sit on a backfield objective and shoot at units on other objectives, and are tough to shift, so should be handy.

[Wispy]

 

Wonder if they do a multi-part Wolf Lord to accompany the codex. Like a Space Wolves version of Captain Lazarus.

 

the GW sculptors were saying Lazarus was intended to be a stand alone Captain, so i've had this theory the Dark Angels have a rubicon'd remake of a classic character on ice while the other special chapters have multi-part Captains on ice.

I think Lazarus/DA Master was like the CSM sorceror, originally meant for vigilus but punted.

 

unlikely, they start sculpting long before they write the material and they use what the sculptors make to inform the material.

[Dark Shepherd]

Turret and ATV likely to come out with Marine codex too as theyre generic and long flagged? Turret too

 

More flavoursome ie CC releases to accompany codex divergent chapters?

[Karhedron]

I think I'd rather have 2 Old Speeders than the 1 big clunky New Speeder. 1 multi melta speeder is 70, not bad as a suicide Piece Trade.

Power 9 for the new speeders implies 180-ish points for the version with melta and missile launcher. A Land Speeder with MM and Typhoon costs 110 points. You could say 2 for 220 points is a closer comparison.

 

So 2 regular speeders cost 22% more. For this you get:

 

20% more wounds but at T5 rather than T6, advantage stormspeeder.

100% more missile shots and you can choose between Frag and Krak. Advantage Land speeder.

33% more melta shots. Advantage Land speeder.

2 Landspeeders can split up to contest multiple Objectives or score "Engage on all Fronts" but will give up more points for "Bring it Down".

 

The Classic speeders lose out on the Krakstorm launchers but that seems fairly trivial in comparison to the other firepower.

 

Overall I would say the comparison slightly favours the classic speeders but it is closer than I initially thought it would be and if you face plenty of S5/6 shooting, the extra toughness of the Storm Speeder could give it an edge.

 

Personally I think I like the flexible loadout of the classic speeder but I am impressed that GW have manged to create a new Speeder that feels reasonably balanced against the classic version without obsoleting it or being pointless in comparison.

[lonewolf81]

So all in all things are looking good for wolves

 

1. We get our 9th update at the start of the new edition (for a change :))

 

2. Weapon changes look pretty solid.

Changes to multi melta make the gunships very good and long fangs look scary with multi meltas or damage 2 heavy bolters with reroll wounds.

 

3. 2 wounds and ap-1 chainsword will really boost grey hunters and blood claws.

(I also think wulfen will get 3 wounds and t_wolves 4 wounds)

 

4. We will have access to the new marine generic rules (strats, relics, powers etc) from codex space marines.

 

Time will tell ( as I see it we will get marines and necrons in October, 2 codices/supplements in November and other 2 in December, we will probably be in the last 2 cause of santa logan, winter, snow theme etc :p)

Edited September 14, 2020 by lonewolf81

[Lord Ragnarok]

 

I think I'd rather have 2 Old Speeders than the 1 big clunky New Speeder. 1 multi melta speeder is 70, not bad as a suicide Piece Trade.

Power 9 for the new speeders implies 180-ish points for the version with melta and missile launcher. A Land Speeder with MM and Typhoon costs 110 points. You could say 2 for 220 points is a closer comparison.

 

So 2 regular speeders cost 22% more. For this you get:

 

20% more wounds but at T5 rather than T6, advantage stormspeeder.

100% more missile shots and you can choose between Frag and Krak. Advantage Land speeder.

33% more melta shots. Advantage Land speeder.

2 Landspeeders can split up to contest multiple Objectives or score "Engage on all Fronts" but will give up more points for "Bring it Down".

 

The Classic speeders lose out on the Krakstorm launchers but that seems fairly trivial in comparison to the other firepower.

 

Overall I would say the comparison slightly favours the classic speeders but it is closer than I initially thought it would be and if you face plenty of S5/6 shooting, the extra toughness of the Storm Speeder could give it an edge.

 

Personally I think I like the flexible loadout of the classic speeder but I am impressed that GW have manged to create a new Speeder that feels reasonably balanced against the classic version without obsoleting it or being pointless in comparison.

 

In other words..bring the best tools for the job.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

So here's a theory of how I suspect things might get released. All speculation mind but it kinda makes sense. I combined logical faction match ups with the 12 kits we know are coming, figured on 3 releases to get it all out there. Order after codex is only speculation based on reveal orders but could easily swap with each other.

 

Codex drop with-

Tech Marine

Drop bunker

Firestrike Turret

Gladiator

 

These are somewhat universal units so makes sense to release them with the codex. Plus tge top 3 were teased so long ago makes sense we would see them first.

 

BA and SW drop with-

Chaplain on a Bike

Invader ATV

Speeders

Assault intercessors mpk

 

I suspect that no codex supplement will have a chapter specific units but I do think they will be themed with the armies, so with the assault focused supplements I suspect we see fast and assault based units. I left out bladeguard because they have been making a big deal out of deathwing bladeguard so sounds like they might drop with them.

 

DA and DW drop with-

Heavy intercessors

Captain w/ Heavy BR

Eradicators mpk

Bladeguard mpk

 

This would be a mostly gravis drop which fits with the DA aesthetic, as well as rounds out the DW kill teams so they could come out with full access to the suite of models they need to field new kill teams.

 

Again this is speculation. No inside knowledge or anything like that. Just my thoughts on how this might go.

[Guest Triszin]

Except dw is this year, da is next year

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

It makes sense to me that it will be three waves, but the timing is hard to predict. I'm not sure if they'll have the normal holiday army specials for example.

[The Saint Ragnar]

I feel like the sets for the supplements will be the ones they showed on their page. They have one image that has the Blood Angels supplement and the Death Guard codex. The have another that shows the Deathwatch and Space Wolves. So while we don't know the order those will come in in pretty sure they grouped them into two specific images for a reason. Ideally we see our group first because I'm looking forward to our updated traits and psychic powers if we get them. However, I feel like they will do the Blood Angel and Death Guard group first to break up the marine releases with some Chaos love given they have a need model and some new terrain. I'm surprised we are seeing new Death Guard model and the like since they got a refresh already but this looks like a nice change and an option to have a Chaos Lord that gets disgustingly resilient.

 

As far as timeline, I would expect a group a month with models to go with each group. I think it makes sense that alongside the Codex we see the models they previewed awhile ago. Then each month will have some marines releases paired with either death guard or Necron releases as well.

 

Those are what I predict based on what we say so far.

 

The dreamer in me hopes we see 4W TWC and 3W Wulfen but I'm not really expecting it. If we see Blood Angels come out first and their Sanguinary Guard go to the 3W then I would expect ours to go up. But if they stay at 2W I wouldn't expect our elite/special models to change.

 

I'm really hoping for a re-work of our Sagas and some warp charge changes to our psychic powers as everything is mad low warp charge for other factions but we still have a bunch of high ones. I'd also like to see a Strategem swap for some of our cooler ones as we have some ones that just aren't worth the CP like Cloaked by Storm. Maybe an advance and charge one for TWC (ideally any unit) so they can actually threaten a T1/T2 charge?

Edited September 14, 2020 by The Saint Ragnar

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Except dw is this year, da is next year

Ah I missed that. I thought all the supplement releases were before the end of the year.

[WrathOfTheLion]

No, only SW, BA and DW are this year.

 

Also if themed, would not speeders, bikes and ATVs be with DA?

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

No, only SW, BA and DW are this year.

 

Also if themed, would not speeders, bikes and ATVs be with DA?

One could argue that but then what do you give BA. BA focus pretty heavily on speed. Once upon a time all their vehicles were faster, so it stood to reason that they would be released with speedy units to support all their jump units.

[The Saint Ragnar]

 

No, only SW, BA and DW are this year.

 

Also if themed, would not speeders, bikes and ATVs be with DA?

One could argue that but then what do you give BA. BA focus pretty heavily on speed. Once upon a time all their vehicles were faster, so it stood to reason that they would be released with speedy units to support all their jump units.

I don't think there is any keyword synergy anymore so I don't really see them releasing alongside BA. I would see BA getting the Assault Intercessors and Bladeguard. Maybe even the Eradicators as they are one of the few imperial armies that have inferno pistols as an option for their units.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think more than just arguing, since DA have an entire subarmy that focuses on those units.

 

Either way, I do not know if they will do a 4 month release cycle for the core kits.

 

Regardless, it does look like there will be a big day 1 FAQ. I really hope they put updated existing datasheets in a pdf, would rather at least phase out Codex: SW and just have C:SM and pdf, maybe saga of the beast if needed, until the supplement is out.

[Bulwyf]

The updated rules for storm shields make me worry it applies to our units as well. I believe they told us to still use our 8th codex and FAQ until we get our own book but a 4++ invuln save is a huge nerf to Wulfen.

[Guest Triszin]

I'm now considering wolf gaurd in pa with storm shield and combo melta.

 

Basically breacher melta teams.

 

 

It's something I think will be needed in killing gravis troopers

I'm curious to see what the blizzard shield changes are. If it offers the +1 to armor save also

[Gherrick]

The updated rules for storm shields make me worry it applies to our units as well. I believe they told us to still use our 8th codex and FAQ until we get our own book but a 4++ invuln save is a huge nerf to Wulfen.

True, although if they get a cost reduction or another wound, it will likely work out well enough. They were a bit too strong TBH, so it's good that TDA is now a viable alternative. They still make for a very mobile unit, if a bit easier to take down (and that 5+FnP is still worth a bunch, IMO).

Edited September 14, 2020 by Gherrick

[Dark Shepherd]

The updated rules for storm shields make me worry it applies to our units as well. I believe they told us to still use our 8th codex and FAQ until we get our own book but a 4++ invuln save is a huge nerf to Wulfen.

Thats been confirmed in the Warcom article

Today, yay for TWC and WGT but boo for Wulfen

 

Would be pleasantly very surprised if Bliazzard shields got a plus on to save as they were already 4++

[Gherrick]

IMO, ALL dreads should get a base save of 2+...seems kinda silly their armor is worse than TDA. Then, if blizzard shields get a similar change, getting a +1 save will really help vs small arms fire.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Gherrick

[Karhedron]

I'm now considering wolf gaurd in pa with storm shield and combo melta.

I like the idea. Would you run them with Jump Packs?

[Gherrick]

 

I'm now considering wolf gaurd in pa with storm shield and combo melta.

I like the idea. Would you run them with Jump Packs?

 

With combi-melta's having only a 12" range, I think jump packs are required.

[Bulwyf]

 

The updated rules for storm shields make me worry it applies to our units as well. I believe they told us to still use our 8th codex and FAQ until we get our own book but a 4++ invuln save is a huge nerf to Wulfen.

True, although if they get a cost reduction or another wound, it will likely work out well enough. They were a bit too strong TBH, so it's good that TDA is now a viable alternative. They still make for a very mobile unit, if a bit easier to take down (and that 5+FnP is still worth a bunch, IMO).

 

 

They need a cost reduction and a regular armor save. Wulfen are very expensive and you essentially have to build your list around them or you are just wasting points. 

 

This kind of nerf is like the nerf to Wolf Priests and TWC to me. I won't play them again and Wulfen with an easy to kill profile at their point cost/focus of entire list puts them on that list as well. I suppose it frees up Wolf Guard termies again but with TWC and probably Wulfen collecting dust my Space Wolves army is just Smurfs with worse rules. 

 

Armies with unique units need to have those units really pop and be worth taking in a list. The further you get away from that the further you get away from any point to collect/play that army.

[Dark Shepherd]

IMO, ALL dreads should get a base save of 2+...seems kinda silly their armor is worse than TDA. Then, if blizzard shields get a similar change, getting a +1 save will really help vs small arms fire.

Most vehicles being 3+ is silly but probably here to stay

 

Hopefully Wulfen get that extra wound to increase survivability and storm shields drop in points

[Dark Shepherd]

Taken from News: Marine Codex is out October 10th $50/€40