Dawn of Fire - Avenging Son

[mc warhammer]

sometimes it takes time for ideas to germinate or inspiration to take hold or even to cut the fat away from a meaty concept. a writer could write about the exact same thing at different points in their life and turn in two very different pieces of work

 

i'd say that this is the time we're getting this story because that's just how long it took to form

 

hope the rest of the book and series stands up to these initial reactions

[Petitioner's City]

Yes it's key to know that this book wouldn't have been produced three years ago - it's a work of more recent creation, creative intent and purpose. It's good it has arrived :)

[G_R_H]

It has the hope and grandeur of The Heresy era but the grimdark of the 40k. Edited August 16, 2020 by G_R_H

[ruralguardhipcat]

In relation to Rostov...

 

Is the Xenos, the Chikanti, in the retinue new to 40k lore? Not a species or name I recognise.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

I've had the impression that the Dark Imperium time-jump was done to cement the idea that the Primaris Marines were the real deal and that they'd been almost universally accepted in the 40K universe. Kind of a way to incentivize players to pick them up and dispel any paranoia/reservations that there was going to be some weird "Order 66" twist (which wouldn't have made sense anyway for GW to spend the money designing and producing the Primaris line with that endgame in mind, but there would have been rumors to that effect and the more gullible/uninformed would have fallen for them). Setting Dark Imperium at the end of a century-long Crusade where the Primaris had performed in exemplary fashion defused at least some of that potential resistance. The Primaris were no longer "new" within the setting, even if they were to us.

 

Another advantage to waiting this long to start telling the story of the Crusade is that, with the Primaris obviously being a huge part of the narrative, there are now three years' worth of releases to include. Without going into spoilers, I'll just say that I've only made it to the section where the Primaris first show up and already a few units that weren't part of the 2017 release wave have been mentioned (though not by name, just by obvious description). In contrast, Dark Imperium only directly referenced the models from that first wave and the still-unseen Overlord - nothing about Assault Intercessors or Heavy Intercessors, even though you'd expect they'd be standard components of a battle company like the one Felix led into battle in that book.

[Sete]

So give the juicy bits. Is it worth a buy? If it's the same quality as Dark Imperium I ain't touching it, needs to be better than a showcase for new units.

Edit: Can someone please make that Inquisitor into a model?

Edited August 17, 2020 by Sete

[kamedake88]

It's a good book but holy crap is the narration a new low for Black Library. The narrator makes Guilliman sound like James William Bottomtooth from Family Guy. Actually never mind the Spears of the Emperor narration was the lowest but this is a close second. 

[DukeLeto69]

So give the juicy bits. Is it worth a buy? If it's the same quality as Dark Imperium I ain't touching it, needs to be better than a showcase for new units.

Edit: Can someone please make that Inquisitor into a model?

I enjoy Guy Haley’s work but I can’t say I love it. Some are certainly better than others but Dark Imperium just didn’t work for me. In places it read more like an expanded codex.

 

Ironically I think I am one of the few who really enjoyed Wolfsbane!

 

I was worried about Avenging Son (as potentially too close to GW studio and memories of bad days of “complete tie in” few years back) but based on this thread so far it looks pretty good so will be getting it.

[Lucerne]

So give the juicy bits. Is it worth a buy? If it's the same quality as Dark Imperium I ain't touching it, needs to be better than a showcase for new units.

Edit: Can someone please make that Inquisitor into a model?

Honestly at a skim, there's nothing amazing here. It's a 6/10 but in a good way.

[Ishagu]

So give the juicy bits. Is it worth a buy? If it's the same quality as Dark Imperium I ain't touching it, needs to be better than a showcase for new units.

Edit: Can someone please make that Inquisitor into a model?

Lots of detail about the setting, interesting plot, compelling characters, fleshes out the new lore.

 

No earth shattering revelations, but a solid story. It's only part 1 of a series and it spends a lot of time building characters and the world around them but it remains interesting throughout.

 

Much better than the opening of Beast Arises. Not as instantly gripping as Horus Rising.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Ishagu

[Carach]

I never know what to think of people's statements here; some people are way too absorbed in anything and everything that comes out of BL regardless of the quality, others appear to read but hate anything that is ever put out, regardless of the quality. 

 

One thing is for sure though: I want to know definitively that this book is not merely a bolterporn-infested tool with which to sell models. I want actual story and not pointless shoehorns of new models. Can people tell me one way or the other? I am a fan of the watchers of the throne and the Vaults of Terra so I am somewhat invested now in this particular timeline, but I haven't collected the models in near 20 years and I have no interest in doing so in the future, so please just tell me it is a decent story. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Carach

[Ishagu]

I can 100% confirm that this book is not Bolter porn, and it does not exist to sell models.

 

It's more about characters coping in the new setting and life in the 40k universe.

 

In fact you should very much enjoy this if you liked Watchers of the Throne and the associated stories. It feels like the natural continuation.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Ishagu

[G_R_H]

I agree with Ishagu, I’m in the final third. And apart from some substansive fleet action, there’s been one specific marine combat scene (other than the opening chapter) and I don’t think a single bolt was fired.

 

I’m very much “a not collected models in years” fan too and it hits the right notes for me.

[DarkChaplain]

I'm 25% through, and I'm enjoying this more and more. It's absolutely not Bolterporn. Far from it. Even though the book opens up with an action-heavy scene / flashback to the 2nd Siege of Terra, where Guilliman returned, all the actual action bits are part of characterization for one of the PoV characters.

After that, there's some fleet action in there, but again, it is used to flesh out new characters and doesn't overstay its welcome at all.

 

Beyond that? There's basically zero bolter shells being fired so far. Everything is about painting in the Imperium, Guilliman's plans of a new crusade, the bureaucracy of Terra, the overall confusion and time-gaps between events, people just learning that a Primarch has returned or trying to cope with actually witnessing him, and so forth.

 

It's an astounding piece of worldbuilding for the series to follow, and probably one of the most important 40k novels in recent memory, from a lore perspective. It's super characterdriven compared to most BL publications, and I love it. Of course, it's also a book you should actually engage with instead of skimming to get the most out of it.

 

On top of that, if you haven't read Dark Imperium/Plague War, or The Great Work, or the various SMC stories or the likes, it's a wonderful place to start, too. Heck, you can read Watchers of the Throne: The Emperor's Legion before or after, too, or Vaults of Terra.

Avenging Son *clicks* with a lot of what has been published, and nicely so.

 

Also, I still like the narration quite a lot. Heck, the NOVEL ITSELF even makes a point on Guilliman's voice, which should normally even explain some of the gripes mentioned here - his larynx appears to have been damaged too. Honestly tho, his voice is fittingly "above" the common level, while his words are diplomatic and "human". It's a nice contrast, if an unsettling one for anybody talking to him.

Edited August 17, 2020 by DarkChaplain

[Scribe]

Hmm, sounds like something I may need to pick up. I'm between houses (moving in end of month) and have...a lot of time to read right now.

[Ishagu]

 

 

So give the juicy bits. Is it worth a buy? If it's the same quality as Dark Imperium I ain't touching it, needs to be better than a showcase for new units.

Edit: Can someone please make that Inquisitor into a model?

Honestly at a skim, there's nothing amazing here. It's a 6/10 but in a good way.

Just read your post. If you skimmed it you won't get the most out of it.

[StrangerOrders]

Alright, I've finished the book and want to share my thoughts if folks don't mind.

 

Avenging Son

 

The book is functionally 3 (the Historian is fairly Minor and I'm just rolling him into part one of my review) Books in one and I am actually surprised to say that the bulk of the book actually isn't marine-focused, although the Marine section is admittedly the largest.

 

On the whole? Pleasantly surprised and quite like it.

 

It is most definitely not akin to the Vaults or Watchers or Regents Shadow. 

 

And that is not a bad thing given what its aiming at for the Terran bits.

 

Its aiming at pure unadulterated grimderp at the Terran parts and boy are those fun to read. This book is aiming to show you a sheer and stunning level of raw incompetence that is actually kind of galling. 

 

But damn it is the right kind of incompetence, the kind born out of raw inertia and repitition. Granted, unlike the Vaults where it is usually very intelligent people being a bit derpy, these are pretty average people who are mindlessly derpy. And that's okay because we are seeing the cogs in the proverbial machine, more to the point the rest of the book goes out of its way to show them as especially broken cogs in the machine. 

 

The creativity of these parts is remarkable and very comedic though.

 

There is literally a chapter following a Scribe trying to navigate a gang war is what is basically a giant waste shoot between the clans of incinerator gangers that burn the paper to create fuel for the hive and the gangs of scribes desperately looking for paper to use for their jobs (the purpose of the Hive). Its hilarious and they even have papermache war-masks, and these are regular underfed poor scribes btw. No Necromunda business.

 

Now onto the 'Second' Section.

 

The 'outside' part of story, taking place outside the Sol System, is a fairly bog-standard Inquisition Adventure read crossed with heavy void combat.

 

Its kind of dull but respectable, sort of what you expect from Haley's average works and not really where his heart is. 

 

There is some Xenos stuff which is, again, fun and creative. Makes you wish Haley was allowed to write some more Xenos novels. 

 

The ground combat is serviceable and the void combat is fun for me. 

 

And onto the last bit, the whole 'Marine' segment.

 

I do very much mean 'Marine' rather than 'Primaris' btw. SInce they dont show up until like the halfway point.

 

Its good, very good. 

 

I liked Haley's DI stuff when it wasnt pushing models in may face (although I am somewhat nostalgic for actually knowing how stuff works after the calamity of Indomitus) and this is very much in that vein save for that irksome feature.

 

It gradually introduces you to the Primaris, the whys and hows of what Indomitus will look like and the role of the Firstborn in it. And it all frankly dramatically improves on what came before it.

 

Had this been their intro? I'd frankly like Primaris much more. They aren't portrayed as invincible, in fact they are almost innocent in a sort of puppy-like way. Which really sucks when reality hits them like a two-ton truck.

 

They are strong and the book shows that. But you don't get the sense that anyone but the Astartes which become their mentors give much of a damn about them. They are used for their numbers, their basic abilities and the rest is sort of a blase acceptance by the higher ups that they can afford to kill a bunch of them without much worry.

 

Heck: 

Cawl, in an uncharacteristic act of brutality. Wakes a bunch up and throws them into battle against high-grade servitors to show off their physical parameters. The Lords are very impressed but the Marines present are horrified at the fact these pseudo-scouts were allowed to be decimated just to put on a show. Coupled with the traumatic way they are shown? It makes you feel for them.

 

The principle Marine is an interesting guy, he has sort of a tempered wisdom, thoughtfulness and restraint that marks him out as a real scion of Guilliman. Although he himself believes that its just life beating humility into him (those who read LoS can puzzle out part of that kicking). 

 

The 'main' Primaris we see is actually adorable. He encapsulates this odd sort of innocence and kindness you don't usually associate with marines in a way and forms a dynamic with the main Firstborn that is very father-son. He asks alot of questions which gives room to both build the setting and to form a fun rapport between them which I would love to see future books build on.

 

Guilliman and Cawl are minor presences and that is fine. We already know them both intimately and it is good to see the gap between self-image and the views of others represented. Guilliman comes across as reasonable, tired and with an undercurrent of trying very hard not to punch the heads of people irritating him. Cawl comes across as the result of a shady tinkerer with the power and status of a very powerful king, which is great since thats basically his synopsis.

 

The funnest thing is actually that this part is the either the second or third lightest on bolterporn, you see a bit of it but its mostly confined to the prologue, a brief skirmish and the climax.

 

Stray thoughts with spoilers:

-Guilliman says that the Unnumbered Sons are the size of multiple Legions and that Cawl has a number stashed across the Galaxy. Which I like since it helps the scale of the coming Crusade.

 

-Cawl and, shockingly enough, Guilliman are unhappy with the preemince of UM Gene-Seed and actually proportioned the Unnumbered Sons to have equal parts from each loyalist bloodlines (and knowing Cawl, probably way more than that). Which means that for the first time in 10k yrs, there are alot of Sallies, Wolves and IH up and about. Guilliman is more concerned about limiting the cross-bloodline competition than ensuring more are His Sons.

 

-Guilliman nixes the theory of Primaris chapters having multiple bloodlines. He wants mixed ones during the Crusade but says it would be too big an issue for gene-seed stocks and recruitment in a stable chapter.

 

-Guilliman confirms what the BA and SW codexes hint at and the 30k books outright say. Cawl sees alot of 'gene-flaws' as features and only made marginal efforts to correct them as needed for implantation. The Red Thirst and Wulven probs the Primaris are beginning to show weren't an error but his intent.

 

-Alpha Primus warns Guilliman about Cawl.

 

-ALOT of worldbuilding as to Blackstone and the Great Rift. Apparently Warp tears are easier in more dense areas of the Galaxy. Its a nice touch and expands on things like the Maelstrom. 

 

-The Inquisition is confirmed to occasionally legalize trade with Aliens, but is very strict with it and is more concerned with the buyers than the sellers.

 

-It is confirmed that the Astartes have actual ideological schools regarding Xenos. With 'kill all of them' being a specific school. Although it seems that disdain is universal.

 

-Blackstone continues to grow in importance, Abby basically needs to lug it around to expand rifts and to destroy planets with high deposits of it. Apparently it is one of the goals of his Crusades to seek out and destroy planets the Necrons seeded with large deposits to supress the Warp.

 

-We also learn that Cawl purposely didnt tell Primaris about Daemons. The 'why' isn't specified but theories given include a concern over the Inquisition's nomial insistence on mind-wipes for Astartes after contact or that mere knowledge might draw the attention of the gods.

 

-Conversely, we learn that most Chapters sort of Ignore the Inquisition's edict. The main marine for example notes that while the law is there, he had never actually met a marine that didnt have some warp-combat experience and that most chapters consider it idiotic to waste the advantage of understanding how to fight Daemons.

 

If the planned series stays like this? I will happily buy the CEs as they come out.

 

7/10 Objectively. 8/10 Subjectively because it pressed the right buttons with me.

Edited August 17, 2020 by StrangerOrders

[Beren]

Another note is that there is a reference to the in-universe versions of Forge World's Horus Heresy Black Books.

[b1soul]

That is cool. AK lives!

[Carach]

thanks for the answers folks. 

 

I will pop this on the ol' list 

[Izlude]

Finally received my LE copy in the mail yesterday. I am about 3 chapters in and really enjoying it. I read his interview and what this new series will be and very excited about this. It wasn’t clear to me if this new series is going to be like the HH (50+ books) or a more focused like The Beast Arises with their 10 books or so? In general, not a big fan of the primaris stuff but as someone who has been into the lore and gaming here and there with 40k (mostly lore and occ painting) having guilliman come back has been something I have looked forward to since when the second edition came out. I thought his Dark Imperium was excellent (Book 1 more than 2 but looking forward to Book 3). He does humans really well, I would say on the same level as Abnett. I still remember the ones he did in Pharos which really stood out to me and the priest in DI. His Guilliman is amazing and has portrayed both why he is the primarch with foresight but also makes it very clear he is weary and disappointed with the current state. Also as someone has mentioned, “trying really hard not to punch their head off.”

 

I definitely like the character list and the book itself is beautiful. I do like the Siege of Terra LE look so glad they decided to follow this trend. Look forward to reading this one and hope the big names like French, ADB, Wraight and maybe even Abnett have a hand in this. I have a lot of confidence in Haley. His production to quality ratio is unmatched

Edited August 18, 2020 by Izlude

[DarkChaplain]

I've heard/read the number of 9 books thrown out there before, but they haven't specifically confirmed it and Haley was hush about it in interviews. I would not be surprised if it *is* 9 books with a predetermined overall arc (and mini-arcs) and an end at book 9, but then ends up with additional "spin-off" books under the Dawn of Fire banner that branch off and go elsewhere. What *is* clear, however, is that there's a planned storyline with a clear end that only a few folks know about right now, including Haley and the editor(s).

 

And frankly, looking at TBA, I would've liked them to do at least an anthology early on, say, after book 3, to highlight the various theaters of war. We got a variety in Predator, Prey, but the further the series went, the more linear the war felt - it was supposed to be massive, with many homeworlds of Chapters being attacked, but our lens was very narrow. Throwing in some novellas and shorts could've done a lot towards filling the scale they proposed early on.

 

But then, Dawn of Fire has the benefit that it can tie into already written material, like with a later reference to the Devastation of Baal, or other SMConquests books, or indeed Watchers of the Throne and Lords of Silence. So even in the future, there's no need to clearly label a book as Dawn of Fire anyway. The setting of the Indomitus Crusade is something we'll have around for a while, unlike TBA, which they left behind almost immediately after the final book.

[Tyriks]

I've heard/read the number of 9 books thrown out there before, but they haven't specifically confirmed it and Haley was hush about it in interviews. I would not be surprised if it *is* 9 books with a predetermined overall arc (and mini-arcs) and an end at book 9, but then ends up with additional "spin-off" books under the Dawn of Fire banner that branch off and go elsewhere. What *is* clear, however, is that there's a planned storyline with a clear end that only a few folks know about right now, including Haley and the editor(s).

 

And frankly, looking at TBA, I would've liked them to do at least an anthology early on, say, after book 3, to highlight the various theaters of war. We got a variety in Predator, Prey, but the further the series went, the more linear the war felt - it was supposed to be massive, with many homeworlds of Chapters being attacked, but our lens was very narrow. Throwing in some novellas and shorts could've done a lot towards filling the scale they proposed early on.

 

But then, Dawn of Fire has the benefit that it can tie into already written material, like with a later reference to the Devastation of Baal, or other SMConquests books, or indeed Watchers of the Throne and Lords of Silence. So even in the future, there's no need to clearly label a book as Dawn of Fire anyway. The setting of the Indomitus Crusade is something we'll have around for a while, unlike TBA, which they left behind almost immediately after the final book.

They did actually specify nine books in one of the live streams. It's also listed on Amazon as book one of nine.

[Kelborn]

Nine tombs will it be

Nine is their number

Not eight nor ten

Nine it will be

And pleased will be

The fateweaver

The changemaker

The god behind it all

Poor is the mind

Weak is the feather

Nine tombs will it be

And wallets will scream

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just as planned...

Edited August 18, 2020 by Kelborn

[WrathOfTheLion]

Nine should be a good number. It gives them room to cover a lot without it being too long.