Dawn of Fire - Avenging Son

[Roomsky]

Dawn of Fire: Avenging Son – Guy Haley

 

So I’ve decided to stop flagellating myself and am just going to stick to audiobooks for Haley moving forward. This plan is clearly already working, because I quite enjoyed this. This is an incredibly impressive feat of combining story with lore, all while creating a great jumping-off point for new readers.

 

As others have said, I wish this had been BL’s product to kick off 8^th edition. It’s very effective at establishing what’s happening in the galaxy, who’s involved, and most importantly, doesn’t ignore most of the conflict that would arise from the premise itself. The primaris are likable and clearly not just replacements for baseline marines. Imperial bureaucracy and infighting doesn’t just vanish because Guilliman showed up. Cawl is a showboat and is obviously taking credit for several things he was nominally, if at all, involved with.

 

Equally impressive is that this book doesn’t invalidate Dark Imperium at all. Dark Imperium remains a fairly personal story for Guilliman and his personal circle a good hundred years into his resurrection. Guilliman here is far more distant, and of course his retinue of mortals is completely different. His thoughts and frustrations remain less explicit so in many ways Dark Imperium will be a good series capper, the big payoff for Guilliman himself. That said it is unfortunate Dark Imperium was ALSO clearly written as an introduction to the setting, and while the content isn’t redundant, much of the delivery is the same new-reader friendly expository style.

 

Speaking of exposition, Guilliman largely functions here as exposition first, a prop second, and a character third. This does have the beneficial side-effect of avoiding Haley’s frequent habit of writing Primarchs as oversized children, and Guilliman does come across as quite intelligent (even if he doesn’t know what “begging the question” means.)

 

The rest of the cast comes across pretty well, with Athagey (sp?) being my favourite. She’s flawed but intense, and it gives her story a nice momentum. Other characters oscillate between interesting and forgettable, depending on the chapter, but not to the point where I found any of them annoying. Messinius is intriguing but has nothing to do for the middle portion of the book. The historian just disappears for the entire mid-section, and Rostov and his retinue vanish for vast amounts of time as well despite an excellent introductory scene.

 

But most of those are quibbles. My bigger issues with the book are 1: it takes too long to establish any urgency or stakes, so much of the story feels meandering. Athagey is the exception and is one of the reasons I enjoyed her character so much: she was introduced in a situation with a clear sense of purpose, simple though it was. The other is just that I think the work is great as fluff turned into a narrative, but I’m not as huge on it as a book. The writing is very basic as is Haley’s norm, and it often comes across as a series of lore tidbits strung together instead of a story with anything other than incidental flow or purpose. I enjoyed it, it was good, I doubt I’d devote time to it again.

 

But for a collection of lore turned into prose, it is still very impressive. Many of the beats were intriguing, and I was certainly interested until the last hour or so where I sort of stopped parsing the action. This I don’t hold against it too much either, the rest of the work was the dialogue and politicking I prefer to the point where I think it was disinterest by contrast rather than the material being bad.

 

All in all, a good start to the series if it’s the sort of thing you’re looking for out of BL. Great worldbuilding, good structure, decent characters, good but disposable for me but that’s because I’m one of those weird people who are snobbish about Warhammer 40k fiction.

 

To Taste

7.5/10, you can probably knock 1 – 1.5 off if I were reading rather than listening

[Scribe]

Started it yesterday, first of his books I've read in a long time, I had to look and it was Death of Integrity last?

 

Best parts so far are the poor scribes.

[aa.logan]

The idiom is wrong ;)

 

In all seriousness there, the cover is part of the presentation of the book and does convey visual language. It absolutely will have an affect on whether someone purchases it, as all they have at first is the premise and the cover. So I do think it's worthy to note how the book is presented, just as it would be worthy to note the quality of its construction as well.

On that same note, the LE is quite handsome, and I think its construction is quite good.

Oh, I agree. For instance, my favourite part of Indomitus was possibly the cover.

 

I like how BL are starting to mix up their covers; the big fight scenes, especially those on *most* HH books are not to my taste at all, but the more abstract and stylised one should they’ve started to introduce to Horror and Crime in particular are fantastic.

 

I don’t actually much like the cover of this myself- not so much the composition but the style of the portraits, almost like an oil painting just doesn’t work for me. Not sure why.

[Marshal Rohr]

Not related but the cover of the anthology done in the style of the Expanse series is perfection.

[Roomsky]

 

I don’t actually much like the cover of this myself- not so much the composition but the style of the portraits, almost like an oil painting just doesn’t work for me. Not sure why.

 

 

That is fascinating. I love the oil painted style but loathe the composition. The modern tendency of really clean art doesn't capture the spirit of 40k to me like the old messier stuff a la Adrian Smith. I'd love to see more covers from this artist that aren't floating heads.

[DukeLeto69]

I already said on previous page I don’t like the multi-portrait approach.

 

Give me Clint Langley or Jon Sullivan covers any day!

 

@roomsky good review but you have now sounded a warning bell for me. This is my next read but only because of this thread being so positive but...

 

My initial reluctance was based on the style Haley used in Dark Imperium. In places it felt very much like a codex fluff piece. Very tell don’t show instead of vice versa. I didn’t like it.

 

I have liked many of Haley’s books but not DI. Sounds like this might be similar?

[Roomsky]

I already said on previous page I don’t like the multi-portrait approach.

 

Give me Clint Langley or Jon Sullivan covers any day!

 

@roomsky good review but you have now sounded a warning bell for me. This is my next read but only because of this thread being so positive but...

 

My initial reluctance was based on the style Haley used in Dark Imperium. In places it felt very much like a codex fluff piece. Very tell don’t show instead of vice versa. I didn’t like it.

 

I have liked many of Haley’s books but not DI. Sounds like this might be similar?

 

I'd say there's still a lot of tell don't show, but with a different motivation. Haley here is clearly trying to dismiss the more common complaints with the 8th Ed. fluff by introducing flaws, depth, etc. I would say it's no more subtle than Dark Imperium, but unlike those books this doesn't go on tangents meant to sell models. There's nothing here like that discussion where a Primaris points out that his gun shoots farther.

[Knockagh]

The idiom is wrong

 

In all seriousness there, the cover is part of the presentation of the book and does convey visual language. It absolutely will have an affect on whether someone purchases it, as all they have at first is the premise and the cover. So I do think it's worthy to note how the book is presented, just as it would be worthy to note the quality of its construction as well.

 

On that same note, the LE is quite handsome, and I think its construction is quite good.

It’s lovely. But I neeeed to say it really irks me that it’s not the same height as the seige books. Why oh why BL, just why?

[b1soul]

The "noble sacrifice" on Fomor III was a nicely written scene that really captured Grimnoble

[Scribe]

Finished this up, and wow was it a struggle to get through the bolter/void fight stuff at the end.

 

Glazed over big time.

 

A decent enough story, but I'm not thrilled with the style of the book.

 

Could have used way more of the scribe, the end of her tale was very good.

 

The story of the Primaris lieutenant (I guess?) was decent. A good throw back to the fact Space Marines are kidnapped children, indoctrinated, tortured, and conditioned to simply be living, thinking, weapons.

 

Plenty of proof as to the ignorance of the Imperium, and the fact that the universe remains grim and dark.

 

All told, passable, but I think I pass on his works going forward.

 

5.5/10, a decent intro to the setting post Rob, but the best parts are (seemingly) unrelated to the plot.

[DarkChaplain]

Keep in mind that, as this has been conceived as a series, a lot of things that don't necessarily go anywhere in the immediate book are most assuredly going to pop up in book two and beyond with more relevant roles. Unlike TBA or the Heresy, it doesn't look like Haley and editors want this to have the issue with characters being retrofitted into the earlier story if it can be avoided, in my eyes.

 

"Oh, by the way, those events on XY? Character Z was also there, we just didn't tell you before, but he's important now, too". So even minor namedrops or single-scene characters are likely to be revisited, and characters who aren't the focus of Avenging Son still get to be spun off in the coming novels.

 

It definitely suffers from series-starter-syndrome, though, in that it does A LOT of world building and setup, lots of exposition, while the ongoing plot is taking a backseat for a long time - quite literally, as the Crusade preparations do happen in the background, with the reader occasionally dipping into the major points, but still gets to see more of the contemplative aspects rather than pure and-then-this-happened events.

 

Still, I can't bring myself to fault the book for being so setup-y. As a matter of fact, I wish TBA and the Heresy had done more of that, even if it had slowed down the ongoing narrative. It simply goes a long way towards solidifying the setting, characters and conceits of the series, establishing a firm ground for the rest to be built on. Unlike, say, I Am Slaughter, were the book ends with basically all it had set up (a Xenos incursion, the Fists Chapter, various fleets and their leaders) flattened by the end of it, leaving book two to set up its own things all over again.

[Scribe]

I can see where you are coming from and from a long game perspective I can understand the value in that.

[DarkChaplain]

We'll see whether it pays off or not in the not so distant future, I'd wager!

[Knockagh]

Just started this and once agin I’m so impressed with how Guy presents his mechanicum characters. This faction has been so badly handled in the past, stripping them of personality and interest for blind logic. Guy has not only given them character he has made them humorous with their petty jealousies and one-upmanship. A very poor comparison I know, but it’s like we have a race of Sheldons from Big Bang in 40k.

[Scribe]

I wondered on how that would be received. I am not a fan personally.

[Carach]

 

The idiom is wrong

 

In all seriousness there, the cover is part of the presentation of the book and does convey visual language. It absolutely will have an affect on whether someone purchases it, as all they have at first is the premise and the cover. So I do think it's worthy to note how the book is presented, just as it would be worthy to note the quality of its construction as well.

 

On that same note, the LE is quite handsome, and I think its construction is quite good.

It’s lovely. But I neeeed to say it really irks me that it’s not the same height as the seige books. Why oh why BL, just why?

 

 

 

BL requires custom-made bookshelves. They are really missing a trick not selling something for the mismatch of book sizes over the last decade (HH original paperbacks, HH hybridy paperbacks, HH hardbacks, SoT hardbacks, other novel paperbacks/hardbacks.. it's all over the show)

 

Team up with Ikea, BL! 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Carach

[Mellow]

This was good. I am guessing that whilst some of the characters introduced seem surplus at this point that they will pop up in future novels.

[Lord_Caerolion]

The one criticism I have for this book so far is that after all the work AD-B has been doing in showing that Successors aren't just clones of their primogenitor, this comes along and starts rambling about how geneseed is a far stronger influence on a Chapter than its recruitment world or culture, and it makes you think particular ways.

[Ishagu]

The one criticism I have for this book so far is that after all the work AD-B has been doing in showing that Successors aren't just clones of their primogenitor, this comes along and starts rambling about how geneseed is a far stronger influence on a Chapter than its recruitment world or culture, and it makes you think particular ways.

This is established lore at this point. The geneseed affects the tactical preference of chapters, and personality traits.

Culture can still be drastically different, even if the way war is prosecuted isn't. There are variations of that too of course.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Ishagu

[b1soul]

That is my understanding as well. Geneseed does significantly affect temperament and tactical preferences, meaning some gene-lines hold a moderate edge over some other gene-lines, in some areas of waging war.

 

Astartes all operate on a baseline of transhuman competence though, so no legion is going to be utterly embarrassed by another legion in any aspect of warfare.

 

Chapter homeworld culture will heavily affect the chapter's visual aesthetics and culture/values (beyond devotion to the Imperium), and may even override certain Geneseed-driven predilections.

 

It's classic nature vs. nurture. Both have powerful impact

[Lord_Caerolion]

But AD-B has given numerous statements about how geneseed isn’t anywhere near as important as people think it is. It’s pretty much one of the core points of Spear of the Emperor, that Ultramarine geneseed doesn’t make you a hidebound traditionalist stereotype. This book then states that it’s THE defining thing of a Chapter. Not that it’s somewhat influential, but literally the most important defining characteristic.

[RedFurioso]

But AD-B has given numerous statements about how geneseed isn’t anywhere near as important as people think it is.

Well that's his personal opinion. He noted on many occasions that different authors have different views on the setting.

[Ishagu]

But AD-B has given numerous statements about how geneseed isn’t anywhere near as important as people think it is. It’s pretty much one of the core points of Spear of the Emperor, that Ultramarine geneseed doesn’t make you a hidebound traditionalist stereotype. This book then states that it’s THE defining thing of a Chapter. Not that it’s somewhat influential, but literally the most important defining characteristic.

The Ultramarines weren't those things in particular prior to Guilliman being reunited with the Legion.

 

The Spears of the Emperor are highly capable tacticions who efficiently rule over besieged star systems with limited resources. You could say that's what connects them to the Ultras.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Ishagu

[b1soul]

This all goes back to the all/nothing is canon policy...which I'm not crazy about.

 

I do think both should have great impact on a chapter's essence

[Scribe]

But AD-B has given numerous statements about how geneseed isn’t anywhere near as important as people think it is. It’s pretty much one of the core points of Spear of the Emperor, that Ultramarine geneseed doesn’t make you a hidebound traditionalist stereotype. This book then states that it’s THE defining thing of a Chapter. Not that it’s somewhat influential, but literally the most important defining characteristic.

This is one of those 'no canon' things.

 

ADB largely is the only one I can think of that argues against geneseed being a thing that matters at a tactical preference level.

 

Black Books, and many other novels point to geneseed having an impact. How much, depends on the author.