Dawn of Fire - Avenging Son

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

The one criticism I have for this book so far is that after all the work AD-B has been doing in showing that Successors aren't just clones of their primogenitor, this comes along and starts rambling about how geneseed is a far stronger influence on a Chapter than its recruitment world or culture, and it makes you think particular ways.

It's worth pointing out that the geneseed having a strong influence is presented as Cawl's theory during a discussion not as a fact. So I wouldn't let it bother you too much.

[Ishagu]

Should this be read in conjunction with Chris Wraights Terra novels? If so, is there a recommended reading order? Finishing up GDTs Strain trilogy and was looking into Avenging Son next, but would read those Terran novels first if they added to the story.

Read this before the Regent's Shadow.

[DarkChaplain]

At the very least, read The Emperor's Legion, as it sets the stage for this one pretty well, highlighting the situation Guilliman returned to from three distinct angles.

[Petitioner's City]

 

The one criticism I have for this book so far is that after all the work AD-B has been doing in showing that Successors aren't just clones of their primogenitor, this comes along and starts rambling about how geneseed is a far stronger influence on a Chapter than its recruitment world or culture, and it makes you think particular ways.

It's worth pointing out that the geneseed having a strong influence is presented as Cawl's theory during a discussion not as a fact. So I wouldn't let it bother you too much.

Exactly! Why do fans and readers keep ignoring speech marks or expressions of thought when they read these books - ultimately, every parcel of information is unreliable, ideological, given by imperfect beings with desires, ambitions, shames and emotions, their own envelopes of knowledge and limitations of their experience :)

[DukeLeto69]

Up to chapter 15 and really enjoying this. Did not like the first chapter and thought “oh no this is gonna be bolter porn” but the politicking and world building (and void warfare) have been really good. The nods and links to Wraight’s Vaults and Watchers books are good too.

 

Hope the feel of this first third of the book carries on for this book and the series.

[Knockagh]

Up to chapter 15 and really enjoying this. Did not like the first chapter and thought “oh no this is gonna be bolter porn” but the politicking and world building (and void warfare) have been really good. The nods and links to Wraight’s Vaults and Watchers books are good too.

 

Hope the feel of this first third of the book carries on for this book and the series.

I’m on chapter 7 and loving it. But I’m with you in chapter 1, I was reading it thinking please no this is not what I wanted. But once past that it’s been a thing of beauty.

[DarkChaplain]

I think it's interesting how the first chapter sets up a certain set of expectations, then abandons them in favor of what the book is really about. On one hand, it's "here's your Space Marine action piece, now let's carry on with the main dish", on the other it is directly building up Messinius as a veteran who has fought alongside Guilliman's side.

 

That first chapter is showing Messinius as a competent leader, a compassionate hero, a courageous warrior and so forth. It foreshadows him commanding troops that aren't even from his Chapter, and how Guilliman would wish the new founding to work, with less rigorous divisions and more brotherhood working towards a common goal. There's also the nod to his long-term girlfr-- power fist, which becomes relevant again later in a neat way. It shows the hardship that Guilliman and co arrived to on Terra, especially for those who haven't read The Emperor's Legion and seen the other end, and why his return is such a big deal in the immediate term. Terra was under Siege 2.0 and would have most likely have fallen if not for the Primarch, who then enforced policy changes across the board - and knowing that he saved the Throneworld from a big daemon incursion, we can tell why he's basically mowing down the opposition with relative ease.

 

That the book then just goes on after those scenes with "this is all just a memory on replay" also further feeds into Messinius's characterization in a pretty neat way. At the end of that first chapter, I knew why he was relevant to Guilliman, why he was a big figure in his security detail, and why he was so favored all around. He has his own personal tragedies but also the strength of purpose and introspection that'd work well for that role. It's a nice thing Haley did with that first chapter, looking at it with hindsight in particular, because it really builds up Messinius to the point where I could *buy him* as probably the most important PoV character in the novel.

[Fire Golem]

Finished this a couple of hours ago. I thought it was pretty solid. Some sections I really liked, I really enjoyed a lot of the world building, politicking, etc. Kinda fell apart a bit at the end, I basically skimmed through the battle at the end of the book. Writing is typical Haley, there’s nothing wrong with the prose but it’s not anything special. 
 

Some of the Terra stuff, with the scribe, reminded me of something I’d expect in like a Dark Souls game or something. Really liked that. 

[Knockagh]

I see it was the amazingly talented francesca baerald who drew the illuminated letters at the start of each chapter. Stunning work.

 

http://bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/gallery/album_16233/gallery_62240_16233_285459.jpeg

Edited September 3, 2020 by Knockagh

[Ascanius]

I honestly like Elstob.

 

It took a while to get used to his performance, but I do, too.

 

I am amused, however, that someone evidently told him he was pronouncing "Omnissiah" incorrectly a couple of chapters in, but they didn't bother to go back and re-record the earlier lines.

 

On the other hand, although he doesn't distinguish them as I would, I appreciate that he's one of the few British audiobook actors who pronounces "empyreal" and "empyrean" so it differs from "imperial" and "imperium" more than some. I'm never confused when the two words sound identical in other actors' mouths, but it is a bit jarring.

 

Elstob places the emphasis on the first and third syllables - EM-pih-REE-ul - whereas most actors say em-PEE-ree-ul, which is only one often-elided vowel sound different from "imperial". I emphasise the second syllable but keep the short vowel sound - em-PIRR-ee-ul, or ɪɹ in IPA, like "mirror" or "Sirius".

[byrd9999]

The people who listen to the audio might miss this potential nugget, but the paperback has reviewer praise blurb on the back cover.

 

It's interesting in itself, is this the first BL book to come with reviewer praise on it?

 

What's more interesting is that the blurbs are written by Dan Abnett, Peter McLean and Danie Ware.

 

Why would BL choose to send out advance copies for review from 3 of its own authors... unless those authors needed to be apprised of the events of the book when writing their own entries in the series...?

[Malkydel]

The people who listen to the audio might miss this potential nugget, but the paperback has reviewer praise blurb on the back cover.

 

It's interesting in itself, is this the first BL book to come with reviewer praise on it?

 

What's more interesting is that the blurbs are written by Dan Abnett, Peter McLean and Danie Ware.

 

Why would BL choose to send out advance copies for review from 3 of its own authors... unless those authors needed to be apprised of the events of the book when writing their own entries in the series...?

Other books have had other-author praise before.

 

Dan Abnett on The Emperor's Mercy, of all things. Also on The Emperor's Gift.

 

Traitor General had reviewer praise from "SF Signal"

 

There's lots and lots of precedents.

[byrd9999]

 

The people who listen to the audio might miss this potential nugget, but the paperback has reviewer praise blurb on the back cover.

 

It's interesting in itself, is this the first BL book to come with reviewer praise on it?

 

What's more interesting is that the blurbs are written by Dan Abnett, Peter McLean and Danie Ware.

 

Why would BL choose to send out advance copies for review from 3 of its own authors... unless those authors needed to be apprised of the events of the book when writing their own entries in the series...?

Other books have had other-author praise before.

 

Dan Abnett on The Emperor's Mercy, of all things. Also on The Emperor's Gift.

 

Traitor General had reviewer praise from "SF Signal"

 

There's lots and lots of precedents.

 

 

Yeah, it's right there on the front cover of Emperor's Gift, isn't it? Dang... still... would be interesting to see if those authors get a Dawn of Fire novel.

[DarkChaplain]

I can see McLean and Danie Ware contributing, but not Abnett (even though any of them contributing to the series in any novel capacity would kind of stink when they are used for review quotes on the first novel by series-supervisor Haley).

And frankly, I wouldn't want Abnett anywhere close to Dawn of Fire. This isn't his sandbox at all, and I'd still maintain that he's not good at coordinating his works to fit other authors' pre-established plotlines, themes and characters. Besides, he's got too many dangling projects as it is. And he damn well better write Pandaemonium within the next few years, not sometime 2030.

[DukeLeto69]

On Twitter Peter McLean said he is not working for/with BL any more.

 

I too don’t want Abnett anywhere hear DoF. Same reasons as @DC

 

Abnett remains my fav BL author but I would prefer he writes another GG arc and finishes his Inquisitor series and writes Interceptor City and maybe even a sequel to Titanicus!

 

So not much on his plate!!!

[Apothecary Vaddon]

yeah come on we've been waiting on penitent for how damn long??? smh

Edited September 11, 2020 by Apothecary Vaddon

[DarkChaplain]

Been 8 years since I bought that hardcover to "not have to wait a year for the paperback". Yeah... about that...

[Knockagh]

Been 8 years since I bought that hardcover to "not have to wait a year for the paperback". Yeah... about that...

I remember buying the hardback and thinking how nice a trilogy would look in that style. It’s had a lonely 8 years.

[Knockagh]

Finished. Loved it. Far better than I expected. The vast array of characters listed at the start was slightly intimidating but all added to the story superbly. Some more horrid insights into Terran life. Some cool little throwbacks to early 40k stuff like finger bone scrimshawing. Might not be imperial fists but nice touch all the same. Liked the crusade overview at the end. I need this kind of stuff, helps me sort things out. The inquisitorial team are a firm favourite of mine along with the writers.

I can see the next book being from the black legion perspective and written by ADB.

Still raging that they went to the larger book. The siege books are such a great size and they all match so well. The cover of the main hardback is woeful. No idea who commissioned that. It must be the old let’s stuff as many space marines on as we can fit, that’s bound to work.

On an aside. What with Wraights pill popping at the start of bloodlines and Haley’s characters coke snorting, our BL authors have some great insights into illicit narcotics. They must be very well read authors!

Super book, throughly recommend. Hopefully they don’t keep us too long before the next one. Far too many people to remember for a long wait.

[Felix Antipodes]

Just finished and very happy with it. I hope they don't leave it too long before the next one goes on sale - I'm hoping for a Christmas release or there a outs.

 

One thing is a bit of a worry though; there are 10 Indomitus fleets and only 9 books planned from what I've read on WC. So who misses out on their story being told and does that mean we won't see any of the Fleet Tercius characters again? ;-)

[Lord_Caerolion]

I don't think they're having it that each book is about a different fleet, unless I've missed something.

[Felix Antipodes]

I don't think they're having it that each book is about a different fleet, unless I've missed something.

I don't either, just a bad humour attempt.

[DukeLeto69]

Finished Avenging Son last night and...thought it was really good. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

Having seen the discussion on here I knew I was in for a “tell don’t show” type book heavy on lore tidbits so I was ok that it kinda felt a bit like a very involved codex entry in places rather than a novel (the exact problem I had with Dark Imperium that I may now read again and re-evaluate).

 

Now that is not to say this isn’t a good novel because Haley very cleverly populates the story with non lore heavy sections and story arcs (particularly enjoyed the one set on Terra itself). Also loved how it tied in with the Chris Wraight Vaults and Watchers books.

 

I also give this big bonus points for finally allowing me to accept the Primaris. I confess to:

 

1. Hating the time jump of 100yrs to enable TT players to suddenly field mature/experienced Primaris forces!

 

2. Hating the Deus ex Machina of Cawl having 000s of Primaris on ice for millennia!

 

3. Far preferring the Rubicon(?) approach that sees veterans transformed into Primaris with all the inherent risks (sounded like a wonderful dramatic conceit) - which ironically better supports TT players as they gradually build up a mixed force of old marines and Primaris (based on wallet spend)

 

But while I am still in this camp I am now far more accepting due to the way Haley has explained and dramatised the whole Primaris thing. I can almost accept it now thanks to this book (though still not 100%)

 

I will go so far as saying this is my favourite Guy Haley book. Really good stuff.

[RedFurioso]

One excerpt of ToW interview got my attention

 

ToW: Can you tell us anything about the rest of the series? Who’s involved, whether you’ve written any other stories, what we can look forward to reading in book two and onwards?

GH: I can say nothing! I’m sure the line up will be announced in due course, as will the number of books and all that.

But then I looked at the Amazon description and...

 

 

Book 1 of the brand new 9 part mega-series from Warhammer 40,000.

Edited October 1, 2020 by RedFurioso

[Felix Antipodes]

I take from that GW are planning on 9 books - unless it does a HH and sells heaps of the first couple of books