Are purifiers good now?

[Skywrath]

I mean by that logic, why are all the Champions (such as the Dark Angels) Elite and not HQ then? Not to mention that the Brotherhood Champion is not a great choice for HQ, unless that is a not so subtle hint at a future buff to him?

 

Yes, getting a bit off-topic, sorry!

Edited August 20, 2020 by Skywrath

[Silver-Fox]

regarding the Brotherhood Champion, I hope he will go to the elite slot like Marines have the chapter champion. A hint could be the double listing of him in the points book.....

 

Hmm I think when strikes will get an adition wound too, there will be still the same problem with purifiers. They don't have more attacks than strikes and the unique power is kind of useless. I think that power needs to be another "thing" than just a super short a bit more powerfull smite....

We could rework it like the fire shield of the salamanders. Or something completely different.

 

One point is, that they can take more special weapons than strike squads, but why not take a purgation squad instead?

They are in a place in our force where they don't fit in and dont have something unique and usefull to add....

[Sweetcurse]

Problem with Purifiers is they lack a distinct role. Strikes are our light troops, terms our heavy troops, interceptors our speedy guys, paladins our hammer but what are purifiers for? May we they could lean on the psychic side of things? Maybe have better buffs against perils? Cast more spells? Have better resistance vs psychic powers? They could be your witch killers basically.

[Captain Coolpants]

Purifiers are definitely inna bad spot. Other than having an arguably worse smite, they are exactly the same as the purgation squad.

 

Just a strike squad that can't deepstrike or properly contend objectives, with access to more special weapons, that are currently worse than storm bolters and a nemesis weapon most of the time.

 

 

But im strangely very optimistic about our new book when it eventually comes out

Edited August 20, 2020 by Captain Coolpants

[Corvus Fortis]

Well, if we assume that Untainted and Unbowed will be a part of the codex, they could be nice tanks with 2w, 3++. A full squad could take some punch, but they will eat a CP and a Cast every turn. 

[SpiritFox22]

 

Honestly it wouldn't do much. Company Vets in the SM Codex only boasts 1 more attack base.

 

Personally I think Purifiers Smite needs to get buffed to 6" range base and either give them the same base attacks as Paladins or a base 6+ invulnerable save.

 

Both would benefit them as a unit, though one pushes them more towards a suicide unit that the opponent cant ignore while the invuln makes them marginally harder to shift. If it wasn't heavily stepping on a Librarians toes I'd say give them 2 powers/casts if the unit is maxed. You'd see them played I purely for support spam.

 

I'd hold off on giving them the same number of attacks as paladins, but 6" range, and that one extra attack to keep them in line with veterans, definitely! The Paladins were always the martial might of our chapter, while the Purifiers were the paragons of spiritual might. Giving them a 6+ invuln save is a bit.. lacklustre I suppose? We have Sanctuary, which is a better version, and also the Untainted and Unbowed Stratagem, which gives them an effective 3+ (with Sanctuary on top). That should be reflected in-game, with the suggestions you posted. Upvoted!

 

Oh I understand why giving them the same attack base as Paladins is a bit extreme, but does help incentivize them getting close enough to actually use their Smite version.  I don't think giving them the Vet's stats push them far enough to even be considered at that point since Paladins are still massively tankier. 

 

I'll apologize as I'm not massively up to date with GK rules, I'm mainly a SW player, so I didn't notice the Untainted Strat which makes the 6+ invuln save a minor improvement and makes Sanctuary pointless for them, granted I forgot the Warding staffs also give a 5+ invuln to the model with it already so it's even less helpful. 

 

Really looking at the entire discussion I do think if Purifiers get the Vets Stat line, a base 6" Purifying Flame, and for fluff reasons +1 to cast (Stacking with Brotherhood of Psykers).  Makes them less susceptible to the increasing Smite costs so the big hit can come last.  With that I could see them being run as the GK's best option for critical buffs or just to annoy people with Vortex of Doom.  With only 2 of the 3 I seem them rarely ran in games "For fun/Fluff" and nothing else.

[Skywrath]

Yeah, I see the same way as you do, in terms of our units getting 2W now. I wonder how they would justify that lore-wise, without converting units to primaris (planning on making a thread about this now), but that's a story for another time. Hopefully they actually become good this edition, with said changes.. were there ever an instance where their psychic power/abilities were ever worth taking?

 

Also, welcome the Halls of Titan, neophyte!

[Captain Coolpants]

There probably won't be any justifications lore wise for the extra wound on regular Marines. Going on current lore and how unstoppable Marines are, a basic space marine should probably have something like 4 wounds and a 4+ fnp.

[Valerian]

The Grey Knights faction has been cursed with pretty poor internal balancing since at least the 7th edition codex (with the 5th edition book being the last time it was halfway acceptable). At this point we really just have to cross our fingers and pray to the merciful Emperor that all of those external playtesters that they used to help work on the upcoming 9e versions will have done an adequate job of things. I am reasonably confident (with guarded optimism) that they’ll get things for Grey Knights in a much better place than it has been for a long while. Until such time as that new codex comes out, however, Purifiers simply don’t have a place in any serious lists.

[Skywrath]

The Grey Knights faction has been cursed with pretty poor internal balancing since at least the 7th edition codex (with the 5th edition book being the last time it was halfway acceptable). At this point we really just have to cross our fingers and pray to the merciful Emperor that all of those external playtesters that they used to help work on the upcoming 9e versions will have done an adequate job of things. I am reasonably confident (with guarded optimism) that they’ll get things for Grey Knights in a much better place than it has been for a long while. Until such time as that new codex comes out, however, Purifiers simply don’t have a place in any serious lists.

 

It would seem so, unfortunately. Even with my optimism, there isn't a way to get them close enough sadly, let alone 6". 

 

Thanks for the feedback, Brothers!