9x19 Parabellum Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 Anyone have any thoughts about the best gun option for 9th edition? Now that you only kill yourself on nat 1's, the assault variety and heavy weapon variet would seem like maybe they have a little more breathing room (in that they carry less risk). I really want to model a 5 man squad with the heavy gun (because I haven't done a unit of them yet and they look cool), but I don't wanna shoot myself in the foot, either (no pun intended). duz_ 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) Wait until the codex as we have zero clue if they will be modified in any way. Right now they aren't worth using over any other choice, but if you do wish to use them, go rapid fire. Even with the change to unmodified 1s being the only way to explode, but since that won't apply until they codex, rest assured that more could happen that tips the scales. Edited August 18, 2020 by Lemondish Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5587845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 I wonder if they might get bumped up to 2/3 damage (regular/overcharge) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5587849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcyon Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 I think the Rapid Fire ones are the default, the option to shoot at 30" or twice at 15" grants a lot of flexibility and the ability to go to S8 vs. T7 and T8 vehicles and monsters lets them do more of a light anti-tank role in a pinch. That said, I've gone with the Assault version so far. I don't think you really want to stay at 30" since that halves your firepower, and the Assault variant lets you close to 24" while still getting two shots. 6" movement isn't a ton so it's nice to have the option to advance and still shoot now that -1 to hit doesn't make you super liable to off yourself, and I think with their range and 9th Edition you actually probably want your Hellblasters moving towards objectives rather than staying back as a gunline. Plus, with the Raven Guard CT poised to change to Dense Cover for Infantry 18" away, a 24" range with two shots gets even better. Dracos 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5587862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 In 8th edition, I had my RG hellblasters armed with the assault variety....but oddly enough, not for assaulting. I wanted to keep them beyond 12" at all times to leverage their chapter tactic, so closing to 15" (or less) in order to get 2 shots was not ideal for me. Thus I always had them at the 24" range to their target. I think they did great work for me in 8th edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5587871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcyon Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 I just had a game where I stayed too far back with them because I wanted to stay in terrain, which I didn't even need to do because it only granted Light Cover anyway (wasn't playing with RG CT.) If I'd moved them up towards an objective, I would've gotten a full shooting phase against a squad of Destroyers and things could've been way different. I do think staying 24" back and still getting two shots is a great advantage, and lets you put them in the midboard while still having them screened from assault etc. between them and the enemy's DZ. Hi by the way, 9x19 - I remember you from a few years back! Just returned to the B&C recently so nice to see you around. 9x19 Parabellum 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5587884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 As they stand now I’m all for the Exterminator... reasons given here . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5587888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewman Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) In 8th edition, I had my RG hellblasters armed with the assault variety....but oddly enough, not for assaulting. I wanted to keep them beyond 12" at all times to leverage their chapter tactic, so closing to 15" (or less) in order to get 2 shots was not ideal for me. Thus I always had them at the 24" range to their target. I think they did great work for me in 8th edition. That's been my experience with them as well, the extra shot at range is generally a lot more useful than the extra S on the Rapid Fire and Heavy varieties, but my meta is a tad Xenos heavy. Although I'll also second the opinion that Hellblasters are a bad choice to begin with right now, Marines have a lot of better options for the points. Edited August 18, 2020 by TheNewman Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5587946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 This is part of the reason I'm interesting in doing a small unit of the heavy plasma incinerators. The only thing they really got going for them over other Primaris guns is the big 36" range. (And they look cool.) Also (and this is really secondary to the thread's topic), the reason I bought them is because I wanted to do some intercessors, and my FLGS was out of intercessor kits. So I got the HB's and split it for 5 intercessors (i have plenty of leftover guns from other kits), and 5 HB's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5587950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcyon Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 Which is the Exterminator? They're all Incinerators I think according to the datasheet. Although I'll also second the opinion that Hellblasters are a bad choice to begin with right now, Marines have a lot of better options for the points. They didn't go up in points at all versus the other options so I think they might be more competitive than they have been. They just have the option of running up to 10 models which a lot of other AT options don't. Many of the D2+ weapons are hard to field in multiples or cost a lot because they come attached to a dreadnought or Gravis armour. The "normal/unsupercharged" stat line does get a lot worse with firstborn going to 2 wounds however - there aren't as many single wound units with armour that S6 and AP-4 is worthwhile against. Inceptors are another plasma option that got crazy cheap, but the new blast rules and overcharge changes make them pretty risky and hard to pair a Captain/CM with in the Primaris range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5587959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 I just had a game where I stayed too far back with them because I wanted to stay in terrain, which I didn't even need to do because it only granted Light Cover anyway (wasn't playing with RG CT.) If I'd moved them up towards an objective, I would've gotten a full shooting phase against a squad of Destroyers and things could've been way different. I do think staying 24" back and still getting two shots is a great advantage, and lets you put them in the midboard while still having them screened from assault etc. between them and the enemy's DZ. Hi by the way, 9x19 - I remember you from a few years back! Just returned to the B&C recently so nice to see you around. Hey dude. Yeah I pop in from time to time. A few years ago I would have been heavily into my Blood Angels. Is that where you were? Alcyon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5587966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 Which is the Exterminator? They're all Incinerators I think according to the datasheet. .... Yeah I'm not sure what an exterminator is as it relates to Hellblasters. The 3 options in the English-rules version are Plasma Incinerator (rapid fire 1) Assault Plasma Incinerator (assault 2 version) and Heavy Plasma Incinerator (heavy 1 version). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5587967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
emperorpants Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) They pretty much need the guns to go to damage 2 uncharged, and damage 3 charged. If that happens,and I suspect it might, they will actually have a bit lf a niche of their own to fill and be worth taking. That damage profile will wreck 2 wound marines, and super charged it will wreck gravis and custodes. Especially in tactical doctrine with null zone active. You'll just have to make sure you have a source of re rolls. Of course, their profile might not change at all, and if it doesn't, they are going to stay bad. Edited August 18, 2020 by emperorpants Alcyon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5588016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 Custodes can shut down rerolls now so plasma is not all that great versus them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5588044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
emperorpants Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 Custodes can shut down rerolls now so plasma is not all that great versus them. That's true, haven't thought of that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5588050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Custodes can shut down rerolls now so plasma is not all that great versus them. How do they do that? I’m not a custodies guy. Think there’s one in my area. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5588107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
emperorpants Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Custodes can shut down rerolls now so plasma is not all that great versus them. How do they do that? I’m not a custodies guy. Think there’s one in my area. They have a strat that lets them choose a unit of theirs and you can't get any re rolls against that unit for the rest of the phase I believe. It costs 2 cp, but it's obviously very powerful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5588121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 Custodes can shut down rerolls now so plasma is not all that great versus them. How do they do that? I’m not a custodies guy. Think there’s one in my area. They have a strat that lets them choose a unit of theirs and you can't get any re rolls against that unit for the rest of the phase I believe. It costs 2 cp, but it's obviously very powerful. Pretty easy to get around though, don't you think? Target 2 (or more) separate units with your unit of plasma dudes. Sure, burn 2 CP to maybe risk me blowing up one of my guys? War Angel 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5588125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
emperorpants Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) Custodes can shut down rerolls now so plasma is not all that great versus them. How do they do that? I’m not a custodies guy. Think there’s one in my area.They have a strat that lets them choose a unit of theirs and you can't get any re rolls against that unit for the rest of the phase I believe. It costs 2 cp, but it's obviously very powerful. Pretty easy to get around though, don't you think? Target 2 (or more) separate units with your unit of plasma dudes. Sure, burn 2 CP to maybe risk me blowing up one of my guys? Yeah I agree. It is something to consider though. In any event, i think the whole only blowing themselves up on natural ones is a step in the right direction. If they gain the bump up in damage and stay the same point cost they are currently i think they will be pretty much fixed. Edited August 19, 2020 by emperorpants Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5588138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 plasma really should have become a mortal wound rather than instant death IMO 9x19 Parabellum, Nalim, BLACK BLΠFLY and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5588223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalim Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 plasma really should have become a mortal wound rather than instant death IMO Absolutely. This would also speed up the game, because right now, you have to roll per model to reduce casualties. 9x19 Parabellum and mel_danes 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5588288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluejayJunior Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Inceptors are another plasma option that got crazy cheap, but the new blast rules and overcharge changes make them pretty risky and hard to pair a Captain/CM with in the Primaris range. What? How did Blast make Inceptors bad? Their weapons just got better with Blast. And a change to overheating on only unmodified rolls of 1 just helps so they can overcharge when shooting with a penalty. Lemondish and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5588317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcyon Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 More shots per model increases the risk of death substantially. When shooting at a unit of 6 or more models, 2/3 Inceptors will die without re-rolls. Re-roll 1s drops that to 16% per shooting phase which is still high for a 3w t5 model to die instantly. CM re-roll still kills 1/3 Inceptors per phase on average. See this Goonhammer article: https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-weapon-changes-in-9th-edition/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5588343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluejayJunior Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 More shots per model increases the risk of death substantially. When shooting at a unit of 6 or more models, 2/3 Inceptors will die without re-rolls. Re-roll 1s drops that to 16% per shooting phase which is still high for a 3w t5 model to die instantly. CM re-roll still kills 1/3 Inceptors per phase on average. See this Goonhammer article: https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-weapon-changes-in-9th-edition/ Then just don't overcharge them. How often do you need to overcharge against an enemy that is triggering Blast anyway? Dracos, UnkyHamHam, Arbedark and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5588363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 personally I play hellblasters armed with rapid fire plasma incinerators always inside an impulsor together with a captain :). the ability to use an impulsor is their biggest pro because you can move them fast... With the impulsor you can deliver them anywhere you need them and with supercharging they can destroy stuff like primaris characters monsters light vehicles etc... The problem is that with the new primaris predator tanks and the eradicators there is going to be lots of competition in the heavy support... GW needs to make them a bit cheaper and make them good at killing 2W stuff like ellite infantry like primaris, terminators deathguard etc... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366005-hellblaster-loadout-for-9e/#findComment-5588368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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