Reivers Wishlisting

[Vermintide]

I wouldn't like to see them get too situational, which giving them a special anti-this or anti-that rule would probably do. Units that are strongly situational do not fit the Space Marine theme of being strong generalists, IMO.

 

The troublesome question with Rievers is what really differentiates them from Incursors? They need something fitting their "elite" status otherwise the troops version just looks superior in too many ways. When they were first launched with Dark Imperium it was enough that they were the general "close bombat Primaris", even if they weren't very good at it- But the Shadowspear and especially Indomitus releases have really invalidated that role. (Honestly I think the better solution would just have been making the Reivers your generic "Primaris Scouts" unit the whole time, but alas.)

 

So what we're left with is: They can deep strike properly, they have pseudo-fly, useless grenades, and some leadership shenanigans. The general theme there is movement- So instead of directly buffing their stats, let's build on that to make them the most manoeuvrable, flexible infantry. How about this. Give them a Fire and Fade type rule to move after shooting/throwing a grenade, and give them the innate ability to fall back and charge.

[Blindhamster]

Reivers should probably have veteran stats (i.e. more base attacks)

 

give their blades an actual edge too

 

Their morale modification rules are actually quite good this edition I think.

 

and they should have infiltrate really.

 

They could be a debuff unit - imposing -1 to hit on enemies they're engaged with or even as a bubble.

 

Lots of ways to make the terror/annoyance squad work well.

[Guest Triszin]

Here's my thoughts.

 

Shock grenade 8" range, same rules

Grav chutes, same rules

Grapple launcher should add +2" to charge and advance rolls.

 

Combat blade, -1 ap, +1 str, 1dam.

 

 

Terror troops, models within 3" get -1 ld, and for combat attrition purposes, double the lost models

[9x19 Parabellum]

Command Disruption.

 

"Your opponent may not spent command points to use stratagems that would target, affect, or directly impact any models (friend or foe) within 12" of a unit of Reivers."

[Ishagu]

Reiver Carbines should be Assault 3

 

Reiver blades should be AP - 1

[Blindhamster]

Reiver Carbines should be Assault 3

 

Reiver blades should be AP - 1

if riever carbines were assault 3, they'd just be auto bolt rifles, the distinction between the two is good IMO.

[Dr. Clock]

Here's my thoughts.

 

Shock grenade 8" range, same rules

Grav chutes, same rules

Grapple launcher should add +2" to charge and advance rolls.

 

Combat blade, -1 ap, +1 str, 1dam.

 

 

Terror troops, models within 3" get -1 ld, and for combat attrition purposes, double the lost models

Dig it... But how would you points all that out?

 

How would you rationalize +1 S blades over chainswords?

 

 

Command Disruption.

 

"Your opponent may not spent command points to use stratagems that would target, affect, or directly impact any models (friend or foe) within 12" of a unit of Reivers."

Same question... How many points do you reckon an ability like this to be worth? Note that as-is it makes Reivers immune to enemy stratagems, which suggests that a 'lighter touch' would be to disallow stratagems only on the enemy units in a 12" bubble... so if they have something to directly affect the Reivers that it would work, but units nearby them would be disrupted?

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[dice4thedicegod]

Apart from ap on the blades being nice... getting -1 to attrition rolls in addition/or instead of just leadership would be a big deal. Maybe up the terror aura to 6”.

 

Heck , if they had a 6” aura of -1 to ld and attrition, then maybe I’d be happy to forgo the ap on the blades!

[Ishagu]

 

 

Reiver Carbines should be Assault 3

 

Reiver blades should be AP - 1

if riever carbines were assault 3, they'd just be auto bolt rifles, the distinction between the two is good IMO.

The elite unit should be as well equipped as the troop.

In fact they should be Assault 3 with an AP Modifier on top, imo.

[Guest Triszin]

 

 

 

Reiver Carbines should be Assault 3

 

Reiver blades should be AP - 1

if riever carbines were assault 3, they'd just be auto bolt rifles, the distinction between the two is good IMO.

The elite unit should be as well equipped as the troop.

In fact they should be Assault 3 with an AP Modifier on top, imo.

Or, assault 2, -1 to ld values if they kill a model in a unit.

 

Terror shells or something.

[Ishagu]

Yeah, I don't mind if there's a point hike along with the improved stats.

 

Maybe make the blades significantly better too.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Ishagu

[Dr. Clock]

 

 

 

Reiver Carbines should be Assault 3

 

Reiver blades should be AP - 1

if riever carbines were assault 3, they'd just be auto bolt rifles, the distinction between the two is good IMO.

The elite unit should be as well equipped as the troop.

In fact they should be Assault 3 with an AP Modifier on top, imo.

Or, assault 2, -1 to ld values if they kill a model in a unit.

 

Terror shells or something.

 

I really like the idea of making the 'manner of killing' a core part of the 'terror troop' mechanic. It gives them more of a 'selective' rather than 'blanket' de-buff unit... whereas the footprint on a 10-man unit with a 6" bubble is certainly effective, but may be too broad. So basically why bother with the weapons when you can just focus on the 'what happens to morale for a unit who starts getting killed by any/all Reivers'?

 

We could add alot to both variants by a simple addition to the existing -1Ld bubble: affects any unit that Reiver unit has successfully killed a model from this turn. If that -1 Ld penalty is backed up by Attrition impact of almost any kind, and maybe a bespoke Stratagem, I'll be more than happy to include them.

 

I think if handled right, the distinction between weapons could be fine... there just needs to be a difference in the unit using it to suggest WHY you would choose a less-effective weapon. It can't just be that 'knives are silent' if in-game that has no impact, or you're literally talking about losing an entire shooting attack vs. the Battleline equivalent... Yet we could focus on the 'terror' thing from the perspective of sheer skill at finding armour weaknesses using the 'more precise' pistols, knives and smgs:

 

'Terrifying Precision: Reivers' shooting and melee attacks are resolved at AP3 on any wound roll of 6+'

 

They have Become Fear.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Improved stats for Reivers would be great. The knives should match the incursor ones with AP -1, I think it doesn't make sense for incursors, assault marines and assault intercessors to have AP -1 weapons, but Reivers in the elite slot not to have that.

A price hike for that would be fine as well. I'd rather pay more points for something I want, there's plenty of other units I'd currently rather take as elites.

 

The Dark Angels Primaris Master gets access to the bolt carbine with special issue ammunition, which adds AP -2 to it. Perhaps give reivers access to something like that?

Edited August 24, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[tentagil]

Been looking at Reivers to add to my Raven Guard because I'm going mostly Phobos armor. Right now Rievers want to be in melee for their aura to matter, and they have the deployment and movement options to get them in melee faster, but once they are there they aren't very good. My wish list for them would be the following.
 

Increase their base number of attacks by 1

-1 AP on the knife
increase the range of the shock grenade, Or if they want to be crazy give them the grenade launcher the Intercessors have access to. Overwatch is less of an issue now, but the minus -1 to hit is great. Having to be so close to use it gives it limited use, though.
Expand the range of their aura to 6 inches to expand their threat a bit.
Give the SGT the ability to get some form of power sword.

 

[L30n1d4s]

What if Reivers had, instead of additional equipment or buffs to their current equipment, a Rule called "Special Mission Protocols."

 

Each turn, during the player's Command Phase, you can activate one of the following Tactics, which stays active until the start of the next friendly Command Phase:

 

1 - Disruption Tactics -- All friendly Reiver Squads gain +2" to their advance/charge distances, add +6" to the range of their grenades, and turn their grenades into Assault weapons.

 

2 - Terror Tactics -- All enemy units within 12" of friendly Reivers Squads lose models to Attrition on a 5+ (vice a 6+) and, every time a friendly Reiver squad kills an enemy unit during a turn while this Tactic is active, then the enemy army loses 1 CP (to a minimum of 0 CP, so no negative CP); opponent can only lose a max of 3 CP per turn this way.

 

3 - Annihilation Tactics -- Friendly Reivers can reroll all failed to Wound Rolls (shooting and melee) against enemy units within 6" of them that are not Vehicles or Titanic.

 

Also, their could be a 1 CP Stratagem called "Multi-Domain Tactics" unique to Reivers that lets one squad use two of the Tactics at once (i.e. the "active" one and another one of your choosing).

 

This basically makes Reivers into a kind of Squad version of Sly Marbo, with a focus on their Special Ops role.

Edited August 25, 2020 by L30n1d4s

[jaxom]

I'm then going to group the quotations by subject; there's a lot of great stuff, so I'm just going to use some as examples of sort.

 

 

 

1 - Within 12" of Reivers, enemy units lose models to attrition tests on a 5+
**Fits their role as terror troops

Terror troops:

-Double the models lost to combat attrition

2 - Terror Tactics -- All enemy units within 12" of friendly Reivers Squads lose models to Attrition on a 5+ (vice a 6+) and, every time a friendly Reiver squad kills an enemy unit during a turn while this Tactic is active, then the enemy army loses 1 CP (to a minimum of 0 CP, so no negative CP); opponent can only lose a max of 3 CP per turn this way.

 

I think Terror Troops should have two effects. I think the best combination for inflicting casualties via morale would be double the modifier to Morale test from casualties and subtract one to Combat Attrition tests.

 

 

 

3 - Reivers reroll 1s to Hit and 1s to Wound against Infantry units
**Fits their role of operating behind enemy lines, without needing HQ support nearby (and gives them more damage output as a "bully" unit)

3 - Annihilation Tactics -- Friendly Reivers can reroll all failed to Wound Rolls (shooting and melee) against enemy units within 6" of them that are not Vehicles or Titanic.

Increase their base number of attacks by 1

-1 AP on the knife

 

I'd focus specifically on the paper to their scissors being "normal" troops (at least on their datasheet). AP-1 for the blades matches both Incursors and is excellent against 5+ and 6+ saves. I like the idea of the re-rolls, but I'd limit its application to 1W infantry models (again, on the datasheet).

 

 

 

Have the carbines mean something, maybe a form of fade move that the eliminator sergeant can give.

I really like the exploding 6s idea - definitely some play there - but would we even consider something like 'exploding damage' (going to D2 or even getting mortal a mortal wounds) on 6s to-wound or somesuch to denote the brutal 'knife in the throat' style we'd expect from these skully bois? Mortal wounds on 6s is probably too much to ask... but they ARE still Elites.

 

I like the idea of the CC equipment giving better quality and reliability while the ranged option has more explosive potential. If that's the case then I'd reserve the re-rolls just for melee attacks. The fire-and-fade is really nice, but there's a huge difference between that rule on a squad of 3 compared to a squad of possibly 10. Free over watch perhaps?

 

 

 

2 - All Reiver grenades go up to 12" range
**Fits their role as disruption troops

What about ramping up their disruption usage? Such as if Reivers are in melee with a unit, that unit cannot benefit from aura abilities.

 

Grenades are uniformly 6" range unless used with a launcher. I'm going to say there's no launcher coming for Reivers. I think the Shock Grenades need to be divorced from the Reiver's strength (it's a perk, but not a feature) or radically changed. 

 

Shock Grenades: If this unit makes a charge move, is charged or performs a Heroic Intervention, roll a D6. On a 2+, any enemy Infantry unit within Engagement Range during the Fight Phase does not gain the effect of any Aura abilities they are within range of.

 

 

 

What if Reivers had, instead of additional equipment or buffs to their current equipment, a Rule called "Special Mission Protocols."

 

Modern 40k design requires we look at units not in a vacuum, but also in the context of Stratagems. It's where we tend to see more complex rules interactions. For example, Annihilation Tactics as a stratagem Reivers can use against units that have lost a model already in the turn. Personally, for character killing (and handling high wounds models) I like the idea of a stratagem which buffs CC Reivers against units they outnumber. Say, mortal wounds on a natural six to hit in addition to the rest of the attack progression.

[Guest Triszin]

Terror aura, no strategens can be used to effect units within rivers aura.

 

Keep shock grenades at 6".

Add haywire grenades

Edited September 22, 2020 by Triszin

[L30n1d4s]

Disregard. Edited September 22, 2020 by L30n1d4s

[9x19 Parabellum]

Lots of really good ideas in here.  Too bad pretty much none of them will see the light of day.

[Dr. Clock]

Lots of really good ideas in here.  Too bad pretty much none of them will see the light of day.

Loving the positivity, my dude!

 

 

For example, Annihilation Tactics as a stratagem Reivers can use against units that have lost a model already in the turn. Personally, for character killing (and handling high wounds models) I like the idea of a stratagem which buffs CC Reivers against units they outnumber. Say, mortal wounds on a natural six to hit in addition to the rest of the attack progression.

 

There is likely a decent argument to be made for some kind of mortal wound mechanic on this unit if it stays in the Elites slot, even if one has to devote CP to it... It's a niche that isn't really filled elsewhere in the list.

 

At the end of the day if the Codex doesn't come through for me, I'll be converting my 10-man unit... probably aiming for Incursors using the assault bolters and doing some bits trawling for the scanners and whatnot.

 

But my group is also quite open and flexible so I might ask to use some of these wonky Reiver homebrew ideas in a friendly game or two.

 

C'mon GW - don't let Reivers be pointless anymore!

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Dr. Clock

[XavierBacon]

Make it so that any Morale tests taken within 3” of the unit have a modifier and Attrition test count as the enemy unit being Below Half Strength. That would amp their lethality and utility!

[War Angel]

Make it so that any Morale tests taken within 3” of the unit have a modifier and Attrition test count as the enemy unit being Below Half Strength. That would amp their lethality and utility!

Problem with that is most units that take moral checks to begin with are usually weak enough that you’d be better off just killing more of them with actual guns or chainswords. Or they’re flat out immune....

[Jacques Corbin]

No, like I said earlier in the thread, give them a rule where core units cannot benefit from auras while within certain distance of Reivers. Or better yet, word it so that they cannot benefit from auras, litanies, synapse, etc, and cannot provide supporting fire.