Vanguard force - but which chapter rules?

[ashc]

Hi all,

 

I'm considering starting an all-vanguard style force, I currently have the start collecting box, a Phobos captain, an invictor warsuit, scouts, and 10 reivers - but which chapter rules make the most of these sort of units? My gut says Raven Guard although many of their rules are about getting other non-vanguard stuff to infiltrate.

 

Obviously I am aware the 9th ed codex is imminent but I'm not expecting huge rule changes. Let me know your thoughts in the comments!

 

Cheers, Ash.

[Mandragola]

I probably would go for Ravenguard. The phobia captain can be given quite a cool relic called Ex Tenebrae that lets him shoot enemy characters pretty well. In all homesty it’s the only really effective way I know of to run the guy.

 

Infiltrators are a bit odd in that they’re really about shielding your other units from deep strike. They are expensive and not particularly dangerous. They make most sense in a shooty army really. You could potentially run them as one of the more aggressive meme chapters. Maybe blood angels or, given that you will be able to set up quite close, potentially Flesh Tearers. They seem to be getting a rule in the new book to have extra ap on a 6 to wound, and that could make infiltrators a bit more dangerous.

[Karhedron]

Space Wolves are an interesting possibility. Incursors with +1 to Hit in the first round of combat can do some decent lifting and, as can Invictor Warsuits. Infiltrating Characters with the Wolf Tail talisman can really mess up psychic armies.

 

Or possibly White Scars. The ability to Advance and Charge means you can get a lot of units in your opponent's face very quickly. While they may not hit particularly hard, they can tie the enemy up and mess up his targeting priority until your heavy hitters lay into them on T2.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Templars aren't too bad either. Some don't think Phobos fits the fluff, but they're the only chapter which can get into combat after disembarking out of an Impulsor. (It's not charging mind.) (Impulsors are Vanguard right? The pilot has an Infiltrator head.)

 

You could put two squads of Incursors with a Phobos Marshal in their face early doors, coupled with the best chances of getting into combat. If you put the Crusader's Helm relic on the Marshal, his re-roll aura is now 9", and one unit within 6" of him is now in the assault doctrine for that turn. With the new Incursors, that's AP-2 with a good shot at a turn one charge. There's definitely some food for thought there.

 

What we really need is a Phobos Chaplain...

[ashc]

I probably would go for Ravenguard. The phobia captain can be given quite a cool relic called Ex Tenebrae that lets him shoot enemy characters pretty well. In all homesty it’s the only really effective way I know of to run the guy.

 

Infiltrators are a bit odd in that they’re really about shielding your other units from deep strike. They are expensive and not particularly dangerous. They make most sense in a shooty army really. You could potentially run them as one of the more aggressive meme chapters. Maybe blood angels or, given that you will be able to set up quite close, potentially Flesh Tearers. They seem to be getting a rule in the new book to have extra ap on a 6 to wound, and that could make infiltrators a bit more dangerous.

Thanks for all the responses so far. I think I'm definitely taken with the idea of running them as Raven Guard, so thanks for this. Which non-Phobos units make the most of their ambush capabilities?

[tentagil]

Templars aren't too bad either. Some don't think Phobos fits the fluff, but they're the only chapter which can get into combat after disembarking out of an Impulsor. (It's not charging mind.) (Impulsors are Vanguard right? The pilot has an Infiltrator head.)

 

You could put two squads of Incursors with a Phobos Marshal in their face early doors, coupled with the best chances of getting into combat. If you put the Crusader's Helm relic on the Marshal, his re-roll aura is now 9", and one unit within 6" of him is now in the assault doctrine for that turn. With the new Incursors, that's AP-2 with a good shot at a turn one charge. There's definitely some food for thought there.

 

What we really need is a Phobos Chaplain...

 

A Phobos Chaplain with Concealed Position so they can be setup deep in enemy territory with squads of Infiltrators and Incursors. Give them Terror Troops so they give the same Leadership debuff as Reivers. I would love one of those to add to my Ravens.

[Riddlesworth]

Everything you have there infiltrates.

 

While raven guard is thematically a good choice. Mechanically, until you add units that benefit from their deployment strats, im not sure mechanically its the best choice.

 

Given that you have reivers, I would suggest white scars as becoming D2 in the assault doctrine makes them passable as a hammer in smaller games and white scars can make charging out of deep strike really reliable.

[Karhedron]

Thanks for all the responses so far. I think I'm definitely taken with the idea of running them as Raven Guard, so thanks for this. Which non-Phobos units make the most of their ambush capabilities?

Short-ranged stuff is probably a good bet. Aggressors benefit from being able to get their short-ranged but powerful firepower into range quickly Boltstorm Aggressors can deploy such they can shoot into the enemy's deployment zone without having to move, thus gaining the double-tap. The new Blade Guard Veterans and Assault Intercessors are an interesting possibility.

 

Any large ObjSec unit can be set up on an Objective which is handy. With 2 wounds each, even a Tactical squad would be quite nice set up in cover on an Objective as it saves points on a Transport. Of course Firstborn units can use Drop Pods to achieve a similar effect. It may be more effective to spend points on a unit that can shoot rather than spending CPs. For this reason, I favour Primaris units for SFTS since they get no drop pods and their Transports tend to be more expensive.

[ashc]

Everything you have there infiltrates.

 

While raven guard is thematically a good choice. Mechanically, until you add units that benefit from their deployment strats, im not sure mechanically its the best choice.

 

Given that you have reivers, I would suggest white scars as becoming D2 in the assault doctrine makes them passable as a hammer in smaller games and white scars can make charging out of deep strike really reliable.

I'm thinking expansion will probably be with some aggressors and stalkercessors, so they would utilise the RG stratagems and rules a bit more but thank you!

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

If you go with raven guard Shrike would be a solid choice. He would give you chapter master re-rolls, and IIRC re-roll charges for jump infantry and Phobos that are near him. He also is pretty good at clearing out 2 wound models which is going to be a big deal.

[UnkyHamHam]

I'll throw in for Ultramarines.

 

You have the pregame redeploy strat, that you COULD combo with Master of Vanguard WL trait for ALL the deployment shenanigans.

 

The Helm of Censure makes an excellent relic for the Phobos Cap. Or the Soldier's Blade if you want the extra punch.

 

You also have Telion, since you mentioned Scouts as well.

 

Speaking of scouts, I'll add to those saying Wolves, because you get "Vet Scouts."

[Ishagu]

Raven Guard or Imperial Fists

 

Raven Guard are the best imo, and Shrike is an incredible Phobos CM

Edited August 26, 2020 by Ishagu

[Mandragola]

 

I probably would go for Ravenguard. The phobia captain can be given quite a cool relic called Ex Tenebrae that lets him shoot enemy characters pretty well. In all homesty it’s the only really effective way I know of to run the guy.

 

Infiltrators are a bit odd in that they’re really about shielding your other units from deep strike. They are expensive and not particularly dangerous. They make most sense in a shooty army really. You could potentially run them as one of the more aggressive meme chapters. Maybe blood angels or, given that you will be able to set up quite close, potentially Flesh Tearers. They seem to be getting a rule in the new book to have extra ap on a 6 to wound, and that could make infiltrators a bit more dangerous.

Thanks for all the responses so far. I think I'm definitely taken with the idea of running them as Raven Guard, so thanks for this. Which non-Phobos units make the most of their ambush capabilities?

 

Probably heavy hitters like aggressors. Eliminators and bladeguard veterans are another option.

 

To be totally honest I feel like the best advice I can give you right now is to wait ~6 weeks. There's a new codex coming and it's going to bring some pretty major changes to the stats for marine units and their weapons. It's already a massive codex with a huge selection of units. With so many changes coming it's impossible to say what the best approach will be.

 

I've got quite a large pile of grey plastic marine stuff, a Primaris Crimson Fist army I made in 8th and a load of older stuff I could potentially bring out of retirement. I've got no idea what chapter I'll go with now. The logical thing would be to expand my Fists but I'm seriously considering Raven Guard. They look like they have a fun play style and they'd allow me to use stuff like my vanguard units and Indomitus, which don't make a huge amount of sense as Fists. That said, I'm also looking at completely different options - things like Blood Angels. And I have 3 undercoated Repulsor Executioners that don't really make sense as any of the above!

[ashc]

Ultramarines do offer quite a lot to that kind of force, something to keep in mind.

 

I think it may be best just to assemble and paint up what I've got (it's going to be a counts-as or successor chapter anyway) and as Mandragola says, wait on the new codex in a month and a half - I'll still be using those units whatever as I've already bought them, so I have nothing to lose taking that approach.

Edited August 26, 2020 by ashc

[Fajita Fan]

I'm about to start priming a bunch of Phobos-armored guys and paint them desert camo, chapter-to-be-chosen-later.  I started using BA shoulders on the Intercessors but I've started carving the blood drop off their symbols to leave the wings, they're more generic.

 

What about Raptors special rules?