List of unique DA weapon to review

[solarisqc]

With all the change to weapon in the upcomming SM codex. I think it's a good time to talk about all the unique weapon in the DA arsenal and how they can be updated with the new rules in mind.

 

I made a list of all the unique DA weapons, excluding relic and weapon of special character.

 

Melee

Blade of Caliban (company champion and Ravenwing champion)

Halberd of Caliban (Deathwing Champion)

Flail of the Unforgiven (Knight Master)

Mace of Absolution (Deathwing Knight)

Corvus Hammer (Blacknight, Huntmaster)

 

Range

Plasma Talon (Blacknight, Ravenwing Apothecary, Ancient and Champion)

Ravenwing grenade launcher (Blacknight, Ravenwing Apothecary and  Ancient)

Plasma storm battery (LS Vengeance)

Rift cannon (Dark Talon)

Avenger mega bolter (Nephilim Jetfighter)

Blacksword missile (Nephilim Jetfighter)

 

Now, the change i think need to be done with all we know so far:

Melee:

base on Power sword, power fist and thunder hammer change

 

Blade of Caliban change damage from 1d3 to D2

Halberd of Caliban change damage from 1d3 to D2

Flail of the Unforgiven increase damage to D3 (kill TEQ, able to carry wound on MEQ)

Mace of Absolution increase damage to D4 (same as Thunder hammer)

Corvus Hammer increase damage to D2, wound roll of 6 add mortal wound (was D=1d3)

 

Range:

Base on heavy bolter D2 change and multi melta change

Plasma Talon no change need, natural 1 for overheat

Ravenwing grenade launcher no change need

Plasma storm battery remove destruction of weapon

Rift cannon increase damage from D3 to D4 

Avenger mega bolter increase damage to D2 (same damage as heavy bolter)

Blacksword missile increase damage to D3 (kill TEQ)

 

What do you think of all those change, realist?

[Skywrath]

I disagree with the Halberd of Caliban, and the Maces of Absolution proposed changes. For starters, the trade-off with the Maces of Absolution was the -2 AP compared to the Thunder-Hammers -3AP, at the cost of not hitting on 4's. Unless the points for the DWK factor both of those changes in (with them hitting on 3's, not 4's with the extra point), then there should be something to differentiate the TH/SS Terminators from the DWK. Otherwise you might just remove the Terminators entry, and just call them knights.

 

Secondly, the Halberd of Caliban D2, is also something I disagree with (but as most people know I have a bias towards the Champion). I could agree with D2 damage, IF the halberd had -5AP on it. I mean, think about it logically, you have a giant stick with a blade greater than a power-sword at the end of it. Why wouldn't you give it more modifiers, as it's probably (size-wise) the biggest weapon in the DA arsenal. I'd even accept removing the D3 attacks on top of it, it that was the case. Other than that, the blade should be flat 3 damage. If this was done, then the DWC could be a nice option for sure to snipe characters. Everything else proposed looks reasonable enough. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Skywrath

[solarisqc]

I give the mace of absolution the damage of the thunder hammer. I was surprise when i read about TH increase to D4, but i see the Mace as a better TH reserve for the elite in the Deathwing.

 

About Terminator, i always think the strength of the Deathwing terminator was the option to combine shooting and assault together. DA have the option to take knight, all the point will be revised in our supplement, but for me, if any DA player choose a squad of only TH/SS terminator over Knight, it's because GW fail at giving knight good rules. Maybe a return of the super smite as a stratagem will be a good idea for them.

 

If the Mace is D3 and the TH is D4, TH will be by far the best option, extra -1 AP and the -1 to hit may be cancel with the cap to modifier introduce in 9e.

 

I Agree with you about the Halberd of Caliban, i give D2 because it's 1d3 now, and i don't want to wishlist. If you ask me, Sx2, D4 wil be my target # for this weapon, same damage as a TH, no penalty to hit, but 2 hand and you lose the stormshield, seem like a good tradeoff.

[Berzul]

What I want is a fix for the Landspeeder Vengeance Plasma Battery.

 

No more of this "Once it overheats you cannot use it againt" bs. And make it 2D6 shots.

[solarisqc]

What I want is a fix for the Landspeeder Vengeance Plasma Battery.

 

No more of this "Once it overheats you cannot use it againt" bs. And make it 2D6 shots.

2d6 shot may be a realistic stat for it. 

It's 2 realy big plasma cannon, the size of a firstborn., arround the same size as the Macro plasma incinerator. Looking at both together, the stat for a twin Macro plasma incinerator is working, with -3 AP because it's not Cawl design

 

Plasma storm battery:

Standard;       2d6 S8 AP -3 D2

Overcharge:   2d6 S9 AP -3 D3 On an unmodified hit roll of 1, the bearer suffer 1 mortal wound after all of this weapon's shot have been resolved

 

off topic: Twin macro plasma incineraton on a primaris landspeeder... Vengence 2.0

[Skywrath]

 

What I want is a fix for the Landspeeder Vengeance Plasma Battery.

 

No more of this "Once it overheats you cannot use it againt" bs. And make it 2D6 shots.

2d6 shot may be a realistic stat for it. 

It's 2 realy big plasma cannon, the size of a firstborn., arround the same size as the Macro plasma incinerator. Looking at both together, the stat for a twin Macro plasma incinerator is working, with -3 AP because it's not Cawl design

 

Plasma storm battery:

Standard;       2d6 S8 AP -3 D2

Overcharge:   2d6 S9 AP -3 D3 On an unmodified hit roll of 1, the bearer suffer 1 mortal wound after all of this weapon's shot have been resolved

 

off topic: Twin macro plasma incineraton on a primaris landspeeder... Vengence 2.0

 

 

I mean don't our plasma cannons have d3 shots? Also another thing worth noting, is that based on my experience, I haven't seen any units (barring titans), having more than d6 plasma shots. Not to mention the only time I did see the D6 plasma shots, those units were at 200-300 points each. If the current datasheets are correct, these land speeders are still about 150 points each. So then there has to be a balance for that - giving that land speeder 2d6 plasma shots, while saying that if you roll a 1, you take 2 mortal wounds, regardless of saves, would seem like a fair alternative. 

[G8Keeper]

I think 2D3 would be suitable increase to the Plasma Storm battery, coupled with losing it's auto destruction on overheat and perhaps a specific stratagem (no idea what kind lol).

[solarisqc]

 

 

What I want is a fix for the Landspeeder Vengeance Plasma Battery.

 

No more of this "Once it overheats you cannot use it againt" bs. And make it 2D6 shots.

2d6 shot may be a realistic stat for it. 

It's 2 realy big plasma cannon, the size of a firstborn., arround the same size as the Macro plasma incinerator. Looking at both together, the stat for a twin Macro plasma incinerator is working, with -3 AP because it's not Cawl design

 

Plasma storm battery:

Standard;       2d6 S8 AP -3 D2

Overcharge:   2d6 S9 AP -3 D3 On an unmodified hit roll of 1, the bearer suffer 1 mortal wound after all of this weapon's shot have been resolved

 

off topic: Twin macro plasma incineraton on a primaris landspeeder... Vengence 2.0

 

 

I mean don't our plasma cannons have d3 shots? Also another thing worth noting, is that based on my experience, I haven't seen any units (barring titans), having more than d6 plasma shots. Not to mention the only time I did see the D6 plasma shots, those units were at 200-300 points each. If the current datasheets are correct, these land speeders are still about 150 points each. So then there has to be a balance for that - giving that land speeder 2d6 plasma shots, while saying that if you roll a 1, you take 2 mortal wounds, regardless of saves, would seem like a fair alternative. 

 

 

For the MW, i just use the same wording we have for Macro plasma incinerator, updated with the new natural 1 for overheat.

 

In 9e, Space wolf are getting a FLYER (Stormwolf) with 2 twin multi melta, 2 Las canon and twin hellfrost. We are talking 12 S8 D6 damage on a flyer unit that can hover and have a transport capacity of 16... yes it's 350 points, but this loadout can delete anything on the battlefield smaler than a titan (or necron with quantum shield).

 

My point is we can't use previous edition to say something can't be done, with time all faction will be revised.

 

I don't say keep the Vengence at 120 pts with 2d6 plasma shot, i say give plasma storm battery 2d6 or 6+ shot and change Vengence cost to reflect the new weapon power.

[Berzul]

Given the leaks in new datasheets, and the overall increase in deadliness of most stuff, I don't think asking for improvements without cost, is too much.

 

I think the LSV should improve. Period. No drawbacks to compensate it.

 

Maybe 2D3 instead of 2D6, but definetly not 2 MW per overheat.

[bigtrouble]

Since the LSV will have a blast weapon, it will inherently improve on a random die roll situationally. I wouldn’t expect to see changes to the overheat rule, though, since they “fixed” overheat with other plasma weapons at natural 1s.

[solarisqc]

There is no reason for the Plasma storm battery to be the only plasma weapon on vehicule ''exploding'' on overheat.

[Brother_Darius]

My quick two cents.

 

Before the Plasma Talon's appeared, always had a thought of our LR Crusaders, instead of having 3 twin-linked bolters on each side having 2 twin linked Plasmaguns.

 

I'd also like to see the Plasma Talon's be available on AttackBikes.

Always thought the Blacksword missles should have plasma stats