Breacher-heavy list?

[HighMarshalAmp]

With no Battle Sisters Boxes to be seen anywhere, I might start T'au after all :D

 

After reading through @General Tullius's thread, I wondered if an 'infantry-heavy' list might work for T'au as well in 9th.

How 'bout this:

 

+HQ+

Coldstar Commander w/ 4 FBs

Coldstar Commander w/ 4 FBs

 

+Troops+

5 Breachers w/ Markerlight

5 Breachers w/ Markerlight

5 Breachers w/ Markerlight

5 Breachers w/ Markerlight, MV1 Gun Drone, MV36 Guardian Drone

5 Breachers w/ Markerlight, MV1 Gun Drone, MV36 Guardian Drone

5 Breachers w/ Markerlight, MV1 Gun Drone, MV36 Guardian Drone

 

+Elites+

3 Crisis Suits (2 Shas'ui w/ 2 Burst Cannons, ATS, 1 Shas'vre w/ 2FBs, Drone Controller) w/ 6 MV1 Gun Drones

3 Crisis Suits (2 Shas'ui w/ 2 Burst Cannons, ATS, 1 Shas'vre w/ 2FBs, Drone Controller) w/ 6 MV1 Gun Drones

Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2 Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator

Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2 Burst Cannons, ATS, Shield Generator

 

+Fast Attack+

5 MV1 Gun Drones

5 MV1 Gun Drones

 

+Dedicated Transport+

Devilfish w/ 2 Seeker Missiles, 2 MV1 Gun Drones

Devilfish w/ 2 Seeker Missiles, 2 MV1 Gun Drones

Devilfish w/ 2 Seeker Missiles, 2 MV1 Gun Drones

 

The Ghostkeels could clear the landing zone for the Crisis Suits and Drones, the Commanders could zip up to get me 3VP via Engage on all fronts for at least 2 turns and the Fish with Breachers would snag objectives.
It all would have to be FSE, I guess.

 

What'cha think?

Edited August 24, 2020 by HighMarshalAmp

[The_Chaplain]

Personally, I think that is a cool list. Very mobile and can grab objectives early- a real focus from the mission objectives this edition.

 

I think giving one of the ghostkeels the prototype system from "For the greater good" psychic awakening that denies enemy infiltration/deep striking within 12 inches could be very key for keeping enemy ob-sec units off a critical objective.

 

Not sure about the crisis loadouts-- but I rarely use crisis suits, so not the greatest judge on them

Edited August 24, 2020 by The_Chaplain

[Focslain]

From guessing your going to be running the extra drones near the suits for extra firepower and cover?

 

The suit layout isn't bad. BC w/ ATS will at least get rid of basic cover saves, and having all the weapons at 18" at least means that you either are in range or your not.  Also the drone controller is a nice boost to the gun drones.

 

Personally I'd sprinkle in a marker drone or two in each of the drone squads, just to give that extra few markers to get to +1 BS.

[chapter master 454]

For effect, better going for 3 BCs over an ATS.

 

Dump the Guardian Drones, if your breachers are eating AP2 weaponry, it will be after the guardian drone bites the dust (which isn't hard). Just take more gun drones (TF2 Engineer style).

 

Another angle you can take, depending on how you want to do things, is going with Piranhas. Those things are surprising, if you start reading their finer prints such as the fact they can be taken in groups of 5, each one can take 2 seeker missiles and all those things. They even come with gun drones so even once the Piranha dies, the drones then pop off to continue to be annoying such as maybe still holding an objective. It would fit with your aggressive style and they can be fitted with Fusion Blasters. They also move 16" which still surprises me.

 

You are also very light on markerlights. I get you are going Far'Sight Enclave and thus relying HEAVILY on that close range benefit but you need some source of markerlights, Tau just don't work without them sadly. Even if a duo of pathfinder squads or a sprinkling of marker drones to just get even 1 Markerlight on targets for easier re-roll 1s.

 

However another sept option is Sa'Cea. You will have to drop one commander but a cadre fireblade is an excellent markerlight source (and with Sa'Cea re-roll it is nearly assured to hit) and this also opens up access to the orbital markerlight stratagem which is REALLY good. It also means each squad does have its own re-roll once when they fire.

You could pocket Patrol to have Sa'Cea play second fiddle to a main battalion of Vior'la however if you really want to get gun-ho about things.

 

Would take some jiggering but give me a hot minute or five to cook something. It won't exactly be full bake but still, might be an idea to work with.

 

Edit: Alright, here.

 

Battalion (Vior'la) and a Patrol (Sa'Cea), Total CP: 11

 

Battalion:

Coldstar Commander with quad fusion, 2 gun drones, warlord: Academy Luminary

Cadre Fireblade, 2 Gun Drones

 

10 man Breacher Squad, 2 Gun Drones

10 man Breacher Squad, 2 Gun Drones

10 man Breacher Squad, 2 Gun Drones

 

Devilfish, 2 seeker missiles

Devilfish, 2 seeker missiles

Devilfish, 2 seeker missiles

 

 

Patrol:

Coldstar Commander, Quad Missile Pods, 2 Marker Drones

Cadre Fireblade, 2 Marker Drones, Relic: Puretide Engram

 

7 man Strike Team, Markerlight, 2 Marker Drones

7 man Strike Team, Markerlight, 2 Marker Drones

 

4 Piranhas, 4 Fusion Blasters, 8 Seeker Missiles

4 Piranhas, 4 Fusion Blasters, 8 Seeker Missiles

 

 

Now you can be aggressive and have marker support behind you. The strike teams for purely to help shield the Sa'Cea characters (can the vior'la ones too if you want) and combining the breachers together like that means you can use hot-blooded and double tap with 10 blasters instead of 5.

Edited August 25, 2020 by chapter master 454

[HighMarshalAmp]

[...]

I really like that list.

Ironically, I had 6 Piranhas wits BCs and missiles instead of the Ghostkeels and Drone squads at first.

But then I moved away from that because I wanted to include more of the iconic Battlesuits and because 2 suits are painted up sooner than 6 vehicles. Durr...

Having but two of them is certainly something you don't see a lot - I'm tempted.

 

I'm hesitant about splitting the army in two simply because of painting it up. I like to be flexible and if everything looks the same, keeping track of what's what going by base rings is a pain for both my opponent and me.

Not that Sept Markings are too in-your-face in the first place, so it might work better for T'au than other factions...

 

You've traded the 6 XV8s for 2 Fireblades and 14 Strike Team FWs.

if the XV8s were to bring 6 MV1s and 6 MV7s, wouldn't that up the ML count while keeping hat part of the list flexible in its placement as well?

[chapter master 454]

Sad to say but crisis suits just aren't worth it right now. Unless you BUILD around them (and not infantry here) then it just doesn't work out, you need things like the far'sight veteran cadre to make them even what they should be and they just don't do much, I mean you have to remember they have the same BS as the Piranhas and Breachers yet the piranhas are more durable (6 wounds instead of 3), improve the drones they have with them until they die like a in-built drone controller (or until they pop off).

 

Another aspect here is that you will notice that the spilt is used to get the septs to work with each other. Vior'La means that even if the breachers have their ride go boom, they can still get them knees up and run as can all those gun drones in that part of the list. The Sa'Cea part means that all those small marker drone squads all get a re-roll to attempt to light something and the same for the strike teams.

 

Again, in tau trying to do anything but triptide is a real ache because you have to bend backwards into the 4th dimension to get things to even play nice. Want to go breacher rush? You NEED to build into it hard. Want to do Battlesuits? Build into it HARD.

On top of that Tau really did get hit a bit by the change to detachments, loss of supreme command sucks and we really do like having multiple different septs boosting separate things because they really needed it. Again here, I was building to play with that breacher rush you had going which I personally like (and want to do).

[HighMarshalAmp]

Sad to say but crisis suits just aren't worth it right now. Unless you BUILD around them (and not infantry here) then it just doesn't work out, you need things like the far'sight veteran cadre to make them even what they should be and they just don't do much, I mean you have to remember they have the same BS as the Piranhas and Breachers yet the piranhas are more durable (6 wounds instead of 3), improve the drones they have with them until they die like a in-built drone controller (or until they pop off).

 

Another aspect here is that you will notice that the spilt is used to get the septs to work with each other. Vior'La means that even if the breachers have their ride go boom, they can still get them knees up and run as can all those gun drones in that part of the list. The Sa'Cea part means that all those small marker drone squads all get a re-roll to attempt to light something and the same for the strike teams.

 

Again, in tau trying to do anything but triptide is a real ache because you have to bend backwards into the 4th dimension to get things to even play nice. Want to go breacher rush? You NEED to build into it hard. Want to do Battlesuits? Build into it HARD.

On top of that Tau really did get hit a bit by the change to detachments, loss of supreme command sucks and we really do like having multiple different septs boosting separate things because they really needed it. Again here, I was building to play with that breacher rush you had going which I personally like (and want to do).

 

So base rings it is

'cause in the end, I want to go full-on Breachers here as well if it's one or the other.

 

Edit:

I tried to run 3x3 Piranhas but that only would have worked with BCs or clock in at 2069 points. The anti-tank aspect of the Piranhas is essential though (your list is spot-on, really, I can't improve it, I'm just trying to shift it a little) so I came up with this list of units that can then be distributed among Vior'La and Sa'Cea. Or maybe FSE and Sa'Cea?

 

+HQ+

Coldstar Commander w/ 4 FBs, 2 MV1 Gun Drones

Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight, 2 MV1 Gun Drones

Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight, 2 MV7 Marker Drones

Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight, 2 MV7 Marker Drones

 

+Troops+

10 Breachers w/ Markerlight, 2 MV1 Gun Drones

10 Breachers w/ Markerlight, 2 MV1 Gun Drones

10 Breachers w/ Markerlight, 2 MV1 Gun Drones

5 Strike Team w/ Markerlight, 2 MV7 Marker Drones

5 Strike Team w/ Markerlight, 2 MV7 Marker Drones

5 Strike Team w/ Markerlight, 2 MV7 Marker Drones

 

+Fast Attack+

3 Piranhas w/ FBs, Seeker Missiles, 6 MV1 Gun Drones

3 Piranhas w/ FBs, Seeker Missiles, 6 MV1 Gun Drones

3 Piranhas w/ FBs, Seeker Missiles, 6 MV1 Gun Drones

 

+Dedicated Transport+

Devilfish w/ 2 Seeker Missiles, 2 MV1 Gun Drones

Devilfish w/ 2 Seeker Missiles, 2 MV1 Gun Drones

Devilfish w/ 2 Seeker Missiles, 2 MV1 Gun Drones

Edited August 25, 2020 by HighMarshalAmp

[General Tullius]

I heard my name? :D

Now I'm tempted to try and start T'au as well after all.

I'm just wondering if with the Piranhas up in the opponent's face, FSE isn't a good choice as well for the Breachers.

I mean, they can advance either way if the Fish get downed and Hot-Blooded only works once a phase while the FSE CC bonus works all the time?

Am I getting it all wrong?

Plus two Coldstars makes for 8 FB shots vs 13 FBs on the Piranhas and one Coldstar. With those 13 however come 36 BC shots. As a marine player, I really like to go VoF and would prefer option 2, with an FSE Detachment with two XV86s.

But 9 16" movement tank hunters surely seem sexier than 1 20" movement one and Hot-Blooded kinda sounds like the Thousand Sons shoot twice Stratagem and I know how much that one can hurt...

How close are these two options apart in viability?

[chapter master 454]

Far'Sight Enclave shine in close quarters yes but lack the ability to get there unless you go crisis suits or some other means of cheating movement. Effectively you need to burn mont'ka early or only get a marginally effective one. Vior'La offers more flex as the ability to freely advance and fire the blasters is more potent because sadly you do 0 damage if not in range but infinitely more even if you get within 15". Finding range is the key takeaway.

That is also paired with the Vior'La double tap is quite good, for breachers who do get into that fabled 5" range you can output 40 shots and with the new Aerial Targetting getting a markerlight on the key target in that case is trivial. Even beyond that the Sa'Cea detachment makes getting a blanket of markerlights on targets stupidly easy while getting a second on certain hard targets for piranha seekers is quite reasonable with their re-roll.

 

In regards to the Piranhas and Coldstars are different beasts. Coldstar commanders are the ultimate pain in the rear with quad weapon loadouts being quite decent, the famous quad Fusion however is more of a "fusion warhead" than an output of fusion with them rarely surviving past their maiden voyage. They are a single fire and forget missile that can and will make a mess of many an armoured target, especially if given the cross-linked stabilisers from the PA (though skippable if far'sight enclave). Piranhas however are one of those annoyances that just sticks far more than it should.

You blew up the piranha, well done but now the two drones it had are now running around like the one meme ("so anyway, I started blasting") and possibly soaking hits for another nearby unit. Also piranhas are vehicles so can fire even if assaulted thus meaning you have to cope with getting 2 burst cannons worth of pulse in the face or if you are a big boy have to deal with fusion blasters at point blank.

 

Realistically, Tau don't have viability as an option unless you lean hard into something. In this case, the breachers are a weak point and I would rather create a different core to work with that uses 15 piranhas all with seekers for that sort of build. Basically, unless you spam it and build into it, around it and from it then it won't work. I have a stealth army list currently under review, seeing what I may do with it that has 18 stealth suits and 3 ghostkeels. Main advantage is wall of mirrors isn't a fallback move so that is something that could be part of the strength of the army and everything has a -1 to being hit. Using the Up-gunned custom sept I can have stealth suits with AP2 burst cannons.

Seems like fun but again, tau right now are "build around it or don't do it at all".

[HighMarshalAmp]

 

[...] In this case, the breachers are a weak point and I would rather create a different core to work with that uses 15 piranhas all with seekers for that sort of build. Basically, unless you spam it and build into it, around it and from it then it won't work. [...]

That puts me right back to the drawing board then. I was trying to go heavy on infantry and now the infantry is the weak point

But well, maybe it can't be done without something being a weak point. I did manage to win a few games with Oldmarines back before the Supplements dropped

Edit: Nah, I'm sticking to the 30 Breacher core and I must say that 9 Piranhas and ML support don't look too bad, do they? You might call your list 'half-baked', I call it scary to face nonetheless. Now I just gotta learn to play it.

Edited August 27, 2020 by HighMarshalAmp