chances of fixing lightning claws?

[aknorthroader]

Just getting back into the game starting with 9th edition and after going through the preview shots of the different space marine weapons, I was wondering what the chances of the lightning claws getting some sort of bump?  looking at the sheets, it looks like a chainsword is just as good as a pair of claws.  it used to be they were the awesome close combat weapons for high attack models.  They are even modeled on powerfists to operate.  With SM going to two wounds, and the new chainsword getting a bump, there is almost no reason to take these anymore...  just a desire...  have a bunch of DA terminators from 3rd/4th edition that are clawed up...  would love a reason to bring them out to play...

[Closet Skeleton]

Lightning claws are still good, a single one being about even with the other same cost power weapons, -1 ap chainswords are cost efficient but never going to do the same damage as -2 ap with the full rerolls and cost efficiency is irrelevant to loyalist terminators.

 

Damage 2 would be great when +1 strength swords become default but if any melee weapon really needs a buff its the power maul.

[Aramis K]

If you've seen the lightning claws rules on the new leaked data sheets then they look weak because those data sheets don't include any special rules like the reroll to wound lightning claws get or any bonus attack for the pair.

[NiceGuyAdi]

Aren’t those data sheets supposed to be international? They have no text, so that would explain lack of any special rules.

[Chaplain Augustus]

Claws' ability to reroll to wound roll makes them quite good. There is a power weapon breakdown in the b3st melee weapons for marines thread that handily describes this. Seek this out! In short they are in contention for best takes all comers power weapon. Bring out those terminators and crush the heretics! Edited August 27, 2020 by Chaplain Augustus

[ashc]

Be careful basing ideas on those datasheets - they specifically do not have any special rules on them so they can be used internationally without the booklets of printing of special rules as we have now. It also basically says on them that they are a quick get-you-by set of rules and the full ones are in the relevant codex. I fully expect lightning claws to still have their reroll all wound rolls and a +1 A for a pair of them. The only thing that would make them real gravy would be D2, but considering this is now the realm of powerfists and relic blades whilst the thunder hammer went to D4, I don't think it would be appropriate. Shrike has D2 lightning claws and is an absolute blender, but he is a special character with legendary-level gear.

[Captain Idaho]

I certainly am in the camp of liking the Lightning Claw thanks to the Re-roll to wound. It makes a massive difference especially if you have a bunch of them hacking into something.

[Lord Raven 19]

If they were to get a buff, I would like it do be double attacks with 2 rather than +1, but that probably won't happen.

[Khornestar]

I certainly am in the camp of liking the Lightning Claw thanks to the Re-roll to wound. It makes a massive difference especially if you have a bunch of them hacking into something.

Yeah I too am a fan of the current lightning claw stats. Obviously buffs are great, but given how inconsistent/inappropriate points changes can be, be careful what you wish for.

 

Re-roll to wound is super good. I think the claws really shine with additional buffs, like extra AP modifiers, +1 strength, or +1 to wound.

[jaxom]

Assault Doctrine, too. Plus the ubiquitous “some chapters benefit more than others” and “depends what you’re fighting.”

[aknorthroader]

So which would be better of the two?  Master-crafted lighting claws (does this single choice work on both?) making them damage 2, or the Key of Achrabael giving the master +1 strength, +1 attack?  If master crafted works on both claws, I would probably take those.  I can see how they could get pretty nasty very fast.

[ashc]

It would be classed as a mastercrafted pair of lightning claws as you don't have two weapons with the same profile, it's one pair that gives +1 A. It totally works. Edited August 27, 2020 by ashc

[Hymnblade]

With master-crafted or the White Scars doctrine, they get pretty scary, although Teeth of Terra do the same thing better if you're taking a relic weapon.

 

For 10 points and when the alternative is a fist or hammer, I don't think they're very worthwhile on most units. Chainswords cost less and are very nearly as good at clearing chaff, and 1-wound bodies with 3+ saves are becoming less and less relevant.

[9x19 Parabellum]

There is also the matter that Lightning Claws look boss^2nd power.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

The main issue with claws is that you are paying premium points for attributes you can get for far cheaper on other weapons.  If you need ap just take a power sword for half the cost.  If you want to wound easier, take a powerfist for the same cost or a power axe.  If you need more attacks just use a chainsword for free.  For multi damage, claws just suck compared to fists or thunderhammers.  

 

I'm not sure how to fix this.  If you make them 5 points then why would anyone take a power sword or axe?  Going to 2 dmg might work since claws would still be sub optimal vs vehicles.  

[Medicinal Carrots]

A single claw is the best all rounder 5 point power weapon for taking on T3 or T4, I don't think they need much if any improvement. They'll be my go to if I only have a few points left and want to add in a little melee punch. Double claws are a bit overcosted and don't add much, IMHO. For 10 points I'd rather have a power fist.

 

The humble chainsword now having -1AP puts it in a nice spot as well. It's free, so it's not only a cheap horde mulcher, it's good at it too.

 

Honestly the choice of weapon really depends on what you're going for with the unit.

 

Smashing tanks? Thunder Hammer

Punching 2W units? Power Fist (or hammer if you have spare points)

Cheap and useful? Chainsword

A little extra anti-infantry punch when you have spare points? Lightning Claw

[Schlitzaf]

I like two damage or an additional -1 AP when taken as a pair

[zero88]

Bolter discipline and Fury of the First makes dual claws on terminators lackluster except for maybe White Scars successors who are going to be advancing anyways. To me where they make a lot more sense is on Vanguard Veterans who don't really have shooting they are missing out on by taking a pair of claws