Stalker as an anti tank gun

[aura_enchanted]

With the new chapter tactic in October the stalker suddenly becomes a really interesting weapon. The -1 to hit shooting at ground targets was always one of the things holding down this 6th edition relic. In addition it's done nothing but fall in cost, as it goes down it's become actually pretty amazingly costed. 95ppm (only one of 3 tanks we have below 100 ppm(Razorback, rhino (and variants), whirlwind,) for a shot at heavy 6 s7 ap-1 d2 with a whooping 48" range (yowza)

 

Suddenly we also have a very tempting target for big guns never tire as they are a heavy weapon, as well as targetting guidance. Two stratagems in PA so they aren't going away

[Angel of Solitude]

It's an interesting thought. T8 to boot too, which means that they're not the easiest of things to shift. 

 

However, my gut on this is that I think the new terrain rules will probably reduce the effectiveness of the Stalker. Ruins have the Obscuring trait, which means that you basically cannot shoot through them like you used to in 8th. It would then make it easier for the enemy to manoeuvre around your firing lanes, so in order to get line of sight to something, you'll have to keep your Stalker on the move, and thus lose the +1 hit chapter tactic (assuming our current understanding remains). 

 

Regarding the Big Guns Never Tire stratagem...this no longer exists as it's baked into the rules for vehicles with Heavy Weapons. 

[Aeri]

Los will be the biggest factor we have to consider here. I think anything that loses large parts of its effectiveness while moving will be highly situational. Same goes for the Executioner for example.

[aura_enchanted]

If you do get the shot though, it's basically the standard firing mode off the sicarian venator tank destroyer which is a tad ridiculous to speculate about the terror it could cause

[Grand Master Raziel]

A_E  could be on to something. If we're obliged to move the Stalker, we're going to, on average, get 1 less hit per round of shooting at ground targets, and that's not accounting for any reroll auras that it might be close to. However, if we're shooting at targets with Fly, we're hitting them on 2+ whether we moved the thing or not. There's a lot of targets in the game with Fly, and a pretty good percentage of the commonly used tournament list units have it. If we get an advantage that negates the penalty for shooting at ground targets when stationary and hit targets with Fly on 2+ regardless of whether we move it or not, that's definitely a unit worth considering.

I think, for me, the main obstacle to giving it a try is that I don't have one. They only became available to us in 8th edition, and that's also when GW started dropping all the Primaris stuff. All of my recent purchases have been Primaris kits. I really don't have any intention of spending any more money on Firstborn Marines unless GW clearly indicates they are going to support them in perpetuity, or unless I can pick one up for really cheap.

[aura_enchanted]

I'm gonna try it out, I got the money down at an flgs for when it comes back in stock for the ordering system.

 

The stalker I think could be super memes

 

One hilarious possibility is if you manage an rng highroll on some suppressors and they melt for an astounding points return of 48 from a 3 man squad.

 

As an aside I do hope we see a refresh this edition on the veterans kit, it would be nice to see the veterans kit get a refresh

Edited August 29, 2020 by aura_enchanted

[Grand Master Raziel]

I'd like to buy a Primaris version of the Veteran box. I've had robed Vets as the sergeants of all my Firstborn squads for a while now. I'd like robed squad leaders for my Primaris squads too.

[Aeri]

Robed Marines would be a blessing for every DA player

[Gederas]

Hmm.... That has potential, yes. But isn't the Stalker the more shots/Flak gun? Isn't it only S6 or something?

 

I'd like to buy a Primaris version of the Veteran box. I've had robed Vets as the sergeants of all my Firstborn squads for a while now. I'd like robed squad leaders for my Primaris squads too.

Thankfully we have Lazarus and the Lieutenant.... And the Kromlech "Prime Legionnaires Robed" bodies
 

But yeah. A full squad of "Dark Angels Veteran Intercessors" would be nice.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Gederas

[aura_enchanted]

Hmm.... That has potential, yes. But isn't the Stalker the more shots/Flak gun? Isn't it only S6 or something?

 

 

I'd like to buy a Primaris version of the Veteran box. I've had robed Vets as the sergeants of all my Firstborn squads for a while now. I'd like robed squad leaders for my Primaris squads too.

Thankfully we have Lazarus and the Lieutenant.... And the Kromlech "Prime Legionnaires Robed" bodies

 

But yeah. A full squad of "Dark Angels Veteran Intercessors" would be nice.

s7

 

On turn 1 it's profile reads 54", heavy 6 s7 ap -2 d 2

 

Which is pretty damn incredible falling off to 48" on subsequent turns unless devestators doctrine is reactivated via stratagem.

 

In addition to the above the damage table only reduces it's movement.. meaning at even 1 wound remaining you maintain full fire volume, unlike say some suppressors

 

When u think about it the stalker is good for a lot of the same reasons the contempor is good this edition. The relic contempor with double autocannons or lascannons is amazing this edition because he's cheap for the dreadnaughts he's up against, and these two configurations are excellent for shredding fast movers like jetburks, assault marines, inceptors, crisis suits, suppressors, various grav tanks, sanguinary guard, seraphim.

 

Except where the contempor had durability the stalker has dramatically cheaper cost in points, and it's easier to get it battle ready as the box has everything. The contempor needs to buy his arms separately and you need to wait a week+ for forgeworld to mail it. If it's in stock u walk down to an flgs or a gw store and he can be in your lap by Wednesday night.

 

I think if there was ever an addition for a flakk gun, 8th is it

Edited August 30, 2020 by aura_enchanted

[Brother_Darius]

I would be really interested in hearing out your play with the Stalker works out.

I've had one unbuilt, gathering dust for a while.  

Perhaps it would be worth it to finally build it.

[aura_enchanted]

It's probably not gonna out gun the contemptor or the Doritos but both of those also cost significantly more and one is a forgeworld model and the other is functional one as your probably not running the assault cannon or the multi melta over the forgeworld lascannons or autocannon arms

[Brother_Darius]

 

Hmm.... That has potential, yes. But isn't the Stalker the more shots/Flak gun? Isn't it only S6 or something?

I'd like to buy a Primaris version of the Veteran box. I've had robed Vets as the sergeants of all my Firstborn squads for a while now. I'd like robed squad leaders for my Primaris squads too.

Thankfully we have Lazarus and the Lieutenant.... And the Kromlech "Prime Legionnaires Robed" bodies

 

But yeah. A full squad of "Dark Angels Veteran Intercessors" would be nice.

s7

 

On turn 1 it's profile reads 54", heavy 6 s7 ap -2 d 2

 

Which is pretty damn incredible falling off to 48" on subsequent turns unless devestators doctrine is reactivated via stratagem.

 

In addition to the above the damage table only reduces it's movement.. meaning at even 1 wound remaining you maintain full fire volume, unlike say some suppressors

 

When u think about it the stalker is good for a lot of the same reasons the contempor is good this edition. The relic contempor with double autocannons or lascannons is amazing this edition because he's cheap for the dreadnaughts he's up against, and these two configurations are excellent for shredding fast movers like jetburks, assault marines, inceptors, crisis suits, suppressors, various grav tanks, sanguinary guard, seraphim.

 

Except where the contempor had durability the stalker has dramatically cheaper cost in points, and it's easier to get it battle ready as the box has everything. The contempor needs to buy his arms separately and you need to wait a week+ for forgeworld to mail it. If it's in stock u walk down to an flgs or a gw store and he can be in your lap by Wednesday night.

 

I think if there was ever an addition for a flakk gun, 9th is it

 

 

Going through my pile of shame and came upon my Stalker box.  Which reminded me of this thread.  I'm wondering if anyone really gave it a go this edition, and how it worked out.

[Angel of Solitude]

I don't think that vehicles in general - let alone Stalkers - are getting much of a look-in in 9th. There are a number of reasons for this I think.

 

First, given the action-focused nature of many of the popular secondaries, the INFANTRY keyword is particularly valuable and so strong lists have a good covering of infantry units to give them flexibility for secondaries.

 

Second, infantry is more favourable for terrain than other unit types, namely that they can mostly walk "through" terrain, while other units have to move around. With getting to and holding objectives being critical to the game, the ability for infantry to take a more direct route has its benefits.

 

Thirdly, the boosts to melta weaponry have reduced the survival time of vehicles, reducing their overall efficiency in a list. 

 

Fourthly, there are more ways to make an infantry unit more durable than vehicles - I'm thinking Feel No Pain auras, cover benefits, invulnerable bubbles, apothecaries etc. 

 

Finally, with vehicles not having the CORE keyword, you don't get those glorious hit re-rolls like you used to. 

 

All of the above combined means that for as long as Eradicators are so efficiently pointed, and benefit from all the advantages of having the INFANTRY keyword, then you're unlikely to chose a vehicle ahead of some infantry. You can also spend 1CP to reserve your infantry unit of choice, making them even more survivable.

[Karhedron]

It's probably not gonna out gun the contemptor or the Doritos but both of those also cost significantly more and one is a forgeworld model and the other is functional one as your probably not running the assault cannon or the multi melta over the forgeworld lascannons or autocannon arms

Slightly OT but the MM/CCW combo is pretty tasty on the Contemptor in 9th edition as the MM gets double the volume of fire on a pretty durable platform that does not mind getting into melee at all. Plus you don't need the FW book to run it (unless you fancy adding the CML for extra firepower).

[aura_enchanted]

I don't think that vehicles in general - let alone Stalkers - are getting much of a look-in in 9th. There are a number of reasons for this I think.

 

First, given the action-focused nature of many of the popular secondaries, the INFANTRY keyword is particularly valuable and so strong lists have a good covering of infantry units to give them flexibility for secondaries.

 

Second, infantry is more favourable for terrain than other unit types, namely that they can mostly walk "through" terrain, while other units have to move around. With getting to and holding objectives being critical to the game, the ability for infantry to take a more direct route has its benefits.

 

Thirdly, the boosts to melta weaponry have reduced the survival time of vehicles, reducing their overall efficiency in a list.

 

Fourthly, there are more ways to make an infantry unit more durable than vehicles - I'm thinking Feel No Pain auras, cover benefits, invulnerable bubbles, apothecaries etc.

 

Finally, with vehicles not having the CORE keyword, you don't get those glorious hit re-rolls like you used to.

 

All of the above combined means that for as long as Eradicators are so efficiently pointed, and benefit from all the advantages of having the INFANTRY keyword, then you're unlikely to chose a vehicle ahead of some infantry. You can also spend 1CP to reserve your infantry unit of choice, making them even more survivable.

Its not so bad with the stalker, it can sit at lascannon range and move and shoot unlike the hammerfall, and it can move over area terrain unlike the hammerfall.

 

Then we have the fact that it's toughness 7 which makes it reasonably tougher to chew through with stray fire. And it takes no penalty shooting at jump and jet bike and speeders. So thats inceptors, and reaver jet bikes, and land speeders and its anti flyer

 

Death company just die by the handful, storm boyz, suppressors, warp talons. This has a lot of practical applications, not to mention we still haven't seen the new hammerstrike speeders crawl into the meta. While we can speculate and shove them around the tts screen all we like, that can mean little, they may become very popular due to a new detail or army stratagem.

[Brother_Darius]

 

I don't think that vehicles in general - let alone Stalkers - are getting much of a look-in in 9th. There are a number of reasons for this I think.

 

First, given the action-focused nature of many of the popular secondaries, the INFANTRY keyword is particularly valuable and so strong lists have a good covering of infantry units to give them flexibility for secondaries.

 

Second, infantry is more favourable for terrain than other unit types, namely that they can mostly walk "through" terrain, while other units have to move around. With getting to and holding objectives being critical to the game, the ability for infantry to take a more direct route has its benefits.

 

Thirdly, the boosts to melta weaponry have reduced the survival time of vehicles, reducing their overall efficiency in a list.

 

Fourthly, there are more ways to make an infantry unit more durable than vehicles - I'm thinking Feel No Pain auras, cover benefits, invulnerable bubbles, apothecaries etc.

 

Finally, with vehicles not having the CORE keyword, you don't get those glorious hit re-rolls like you used to.

 

All of the above combined means that for as long as Eradicators are so efficiently pointed, and benefit from all the advantages of having the INFANTRY keyword, then you're unlikely to chose a vehicle ahead of some infantry. You can also spend 1CP to reserve your infantry unit of choice, making them even more survivable.

Its not so bad with the stalker, it can sit at lascannon range and move and shoot unlike the hammerfall, and it can move over area terrain unlike the hammerfall.

 

Then we have the fact that it's toughness 7 which makes it reasonably tougher to chew through with stray fire. And it takes no penalty shooting at jump and jet bike and speeders. So thats inceptors, and reaver jet bikes, and land speeders and its anti flyer

 

Death company just die by the handful, storm boyz, suppressors, warp talons. This has a lot of practical applications, not to mention we still haven't seen the new hammerstrike speeders crawl into the meta. While we can speculate and shove them around the tts screen all we like, that can mean little, they may become very popular due to a new detail or army stratagem.

 

 

So is this true?

I see where it gets bonus vs Aircraft, but not where it gets anything against the generic "Fly" keyword.

[solarisqc]

No bonus against fly but no more penalty vs non aircraft.

 

To resume, if it shoot at Aircraft, it double the hit roll and get +1 to hit (2x6 shots) and against non aircraft it's normal BS (2x3 shots).