Heresy Era Black Legion

[MeticulousChaos]

Anyone have pictures of a Heresy Era Black Legion Army? The more I’m thinking about it, the more I like the idea of MK III and IV armor running around with Heresy Abaddon.

[Imren]

What is known as the black legion during 40k era is the remnants of the XVI legion, which during the Horus heresy (30k) was called Sons of horus (and Luna Wolves before that with white legion colour) and had a sea green legion colour.

 

The veterans of the Sons of Horus that was member of the Justaerin had Terminator armour painted black, their leadier was the first captain Ezekyle Abaddon. Later after the Horus heresy and the death of Horus, Abaddon took leadership of the legion and renamed it black legion with black armour to put the failure of Horus in the past.

 

So to adhere to the fluff, if you want a heresy era army you want to paint them sea green except for terminators and perhaps reavers, with the eye of Horus iconography. Later after the heresy (40k) you paint them black as black legion. However, you can paint a 40k black legion army in MkIII and MkIV since many of the black legion members probably never switched to later types of power armour.

[WrathOfTheLion]

As said, the Black Legion didn't exist in the HH and their precursors were the Sons of Horus.

[Ezekyle_Abaddon]

The Black Legion aren't the successors to the Sons of Horus, or any of the nine legions. Their deal is renouncing the past and starting anew the whole "From shame and shadow, recast in black and gold."  As such the have astrates from all of the 9 traitor legions, and many are veterans from the heresy. If you want to model some legionaries with MKIII and MKIV it would be totally lore acute.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Even in the codex, it says they were originally formed from the remnants of the Sons of Horus pledging to Abaddon after their main fortress was crushed and destroyed in the internecine conflicts after the Scouring. Nowadays, the Black Legion contains all sorts of elements from various renegades, Legions, etc., but that was their origin.

Painting MK IV and MK III marines as Black Legion would be totally fine though. But that is why there is no Heresy-Era Black Legion armies, because it didn't exist in the Heresy. Using Heresy models in CSM is always fine though, as they are veterans of the long war.

[Syrakul]

8 years ago or so I was collecting SoH but only ever played 40k so ran them as Black legion. Despite it going against the lore as mentioned by Imren, I loved the look of the HH era armor over the old scuplt CSM so just kept going with it.

In my gallery in sig there are some examples of my Abaddon, Havocs etc.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Syrakul

[Snazzy]

The Black Legion aren't the successors to the Sons of Horus, or any of the nine legions. Their deal is renouncing the past and starting anew the whole "From shame and shadow, recast in black and gold."  As such the have astrates from all of the 9 traitor legions, and many are veterans from the heresy. If you want to model some legionaries with MKIII and MKIV it would be totally lore acute.

 

The core of the Black Legion was built on Sons of Horus, and the rules reflect that.  Black Legion may be a renunciation of the past, but our Relics, Stratagems and detachment rules all harken back to the Sons of Horus.  GW seems to want some middle path where Black Legion is the "default" Legion with all the tools and cult troops of all the Legions, but also has kept enough Sons of Horus callbacks in there to leave a trace to the past.

[MegaVolt87]

I would guess only at best 25-30 percent of the modern BL is actually SoH or newer legionaries raised from original gene seed. That's enough for elite formations with OG legion equipment, Abaddon's vanguard equipped likewise and command elements for the wider force. GC/ HH era gear definitely fits, though its likely an elite formation and quite uncommon. 

 

EDIT- lol auto correct doing Addison instead of Abaddon xD 

Edited September 1, 2020 by MegaVolt87

[Snazzy]

Two things to bear in mind.  The idea of the "Legion system" is largely an affectation by 40K.  The Legions are nowhere as coherent as they were at the time of the Heresy, which is nowhere as coherent as they were before the Hersey, as shown by the Blackshield formations.  Traitor Legions have been salvaging geneseeds from their enemies and raiding Imperial stocks for some time.  So, the idea that the Black Legion is uniquely not genetically descended from their Primarch is not true.  To some extent, most of the remaining "Legions" are doing something similar to the Black Legion: raising troops however they can and indoctrinating them in the particulars of the Legion.  The Black Legion may very well be the least genetically similar to their Sons of Horus forebearers.  I'd argue it is a mix of Abaddon's success in absorbing warbands, and that the Sons of Horus were so thoroughly hollowed out by the Heresy and Legion Wars.

 

The second thing to bear in mind is that whatever Abaddon says about Horus, he is keen to grasp onto everything Horus-esque.  He uses Horus's weapon, flies his ship, deploys in Speartips and continues to use a Mournival style council.

[MegaVolt87]

Two things to bear in mind.  The idea of the "Legion system" is largely an affectation by 40K.  The Legions are nowhere as coherent as they were at the time of the Heresy, which is nowhere as coherent as they were before the Hersey, as shown by the Blackshield formations.  Traitor Legions have been salvaging geneseeds from their enemies and raiding Imperial stocks for some time.  So, the idea that the Black Legion is uniquely not genetically descended from their Primarch is not true.  To some extent, most of the remaining "Legions" are doing something similar to the Black Legion: raising troops however they can and indoctrinating them in the particulars of the Legion.  The Black Legion may very well be the least genetically similar to their Sons of Horus forebearers.  I'd argue it is a mix of Abaddon's success in absorbing warbands, and that the Sons of Horus were so thoroughly hollowed out by the Heresy and Legion Wars.

 

The second thing to bear in mind is that whatever Abaddon says about Horus, he is keen to grasp onto everything Horus-esque.  He uses Horus's weapon, flies his ship, deploys in Speartips and continues to use a Mournival style council.

 

I disagree, its a bit of a meme saying there is no chance of a solid core to each legion that is basically as good as they were at the height of their power with legion era gear + equipment, geneseed. They however would be uncommon and not a majority force. Just enough for elite formations, vanguard for a primarch/ Abaddon, enough to make commanders over lesser thin bloods heretic astartes forces within the legion, relatively self sustaining at such a minority ratio as OG legionaries. There would easily be a few thousand of each such troops in the modern Legions today. 

[Snazzy]

Not really a meme as so much there not being any support for the Heresy era formations.  

 

 

As for OP, no.  Black Legion being involved in the Heresy hasn't been a thing since Index Astartes IV, back in 2004.  That publication retconed the 16th Legion, giving us the Luna Wolves and Sons of Horus.

[MegaVolt87]

Not really a meme as so much there not being any support for the Heresy era formations.  

 

 

As for OP, no.  Black Legion being involved in the Heresy hasn't been a thing since Index Astartes IV, back in 2004.  That publication retconed the 16th Legion, giving us the Luna Wolves and Sons of Horus.

Its still possible, we will have to agree to disagree then. A similar convo about this happened a while back about AL.

[Imren]

 

Not really a meme as so much there not being any support for the Heresy era formations.  

 

 

As for OP, no.  Black Legion being involved in the Heresy hasn't been a thing since Index Astartes IV, back in 2004.  That publication retconed the 16th Legion, giving us the Luna Wolves and Sons of Horus.

Its still possible, we will have to agree to disagree then. A similar convo about this happened a while back about AL.

 

I'm curious, what GW publication mentions black legion during the heresy and what does it say? How the did black legion fit in the narrative during the heresy? What legion number did the black legion have during the heresy?

[dice4thedicegod]

Not really a meme as so much there not being any support for the Heresy era formations.  

 

 

As for OP, no.  Black Legion being involved in the Heresy hasn't been a thing since Index Astartes IV, back in 2004.  That publication retconed the 16th Legion, giving us the Luna Wolves and Sons of Horus.

The Slaves to Darkness book (1990?) was quite clear on the black legion arising In the eye of terror post heresy from the ashes of the sons of Horus.  Don’t think abaddon had been invented by then though.

Edited September 1, 2020 by dice4thedicegod

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

Not really a meme as so much there not being any support for the Heresy era formations.  

 

 

As for OP, no.  Black Legion being involved in the Heresy hasn't been a thing since Index Astartes IV, back in 2004.  That publication retconed the 16th Legion, giving us the Luna Wolves and Sons of Horus.

 

Its still possible, we will have to agree to disagree then. A similar convo about this happened a while back about AL.

I'm curious, what GW publication mentions black legion during the heresy and what does it say? How the did black legion fit in the narrative during the heresy? What legion number did the black legion have during the heresy?

That's not what we are disagreeing about. The argument is that it's possible there is a portion of the old SoH in the modern BL using legion gear in the modern era along with actual SoH geneseed, just with the BL re-branding. It would be uncommon, however enogh for a few elite formations etc. Snazzy and others think that's not a thing, a similar argument was raised in a topic about AL that got locked.

[Imren]

 

 

 

Not really a meme as so much there not being any support for the Heresy era formations.  

 

 

As for OP, no.  Black Legion being involved in the Heresy hasn't been a thing since Index Astartes IV, back in 2004.  That publication retconed the 16th Legion, giving us the Luna Wolves and Sons of Horus.

Its still possible, we will have to agree to disagree then. A similar convo about this happened a while back about AL.

I'm curious, what GW publication mentions black legion during the heresy and what does it say? How the did black legion fit in the narrative during the heresy? What legion number did the black legion have during the heresy?

That's not what we are disagreeing about. The argument is that it's possible there is a portion of the old SoH in the modern BL using legion gear in the modern era along with actual SoH geneseed, just with the BL re-branding. It would be uncommon, however enogh for a few elite formations etc. Snazzy and others think that's not a thing, a similar argument was raised in a topic about AL that got locked.

 

Ok, sorry, I misunderstood what was argued. :)

[Snazzy]

 

The Slaves to Darkness book (1990?) was quite clear on the black legion arising In the eye of terror post heresy from the ashes of the sons of Horus.  Don’t think abaddon had been invented by then though.

 

 

Yes, i should restate this more accurately.  Black Legion was the Luna Wolves and Sons of Horus going back to RT.  There was some confusion around them in 2nd edition, where they are listed as the Lunar Wolves in the Ultramarines Codex.  Additionally, GW produced a massive Siege of Terra display for a Games Day, and featured it in White Dwarf, portraying the attacking forces as Black Legion.  This could be because until Index Astartes IV in 3rd edition there was no official color scheme for the Sons of Horus.  What we now know about the 16th Legion is more similar to the IA article that lays out their structure and previous colors than the Slaves to Darkness entry.

 

 

That's not what we are disagreeing about. The argument is that it's possible there is a portion of the old SoH in the modern BL using legion gear in the modern era along with actual SoH geneseed, just with the BL re-branding. It would be uncommon, however enogh for a few elite formations etc. Snazzy and others think that's not a thing, a similar argument was raised in a topic about AL that got locked.

 

 

In game, no.  In narrative?  Sure.  Justaerin being displaced by the Bringers of Despair muddles things, but the Reavers are dead.  There isn't any rule support to pay tribute to them through Warlord Traits or Strats.  Sure wish we had Banestrike Bolts in 40K, though.

 

I am something of a hypocrite.  I run my HH models in 40K, as Sons of Horus.  I just make sure that my Reavers are Berserkers, my Justaerin are Terminators, and that their equipment conforms to their 40K rules.  I have yet to run into a problem from organizers.  But, i've also not tried a national level.

[Celtic_cauldron]

 

 

 

 

 

Here are some examples from my own Black Legion forces. You can find here and there Legionaires using complete or partial MK3 or MK4 pieces of wargear. From my experience, the result is better if you mix HH bitz with pure CSM and Loyalist parts. It gives a better taste of what it is to fight the Long War.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Celtic_Cauldron

Edited September 16, 2020 by Celtic_cauldron

[Imren]

Awesome! Please tell us that the green on the bases is goblin green! :)

[Celtic_cauldron]

Unfortunately not. My last batch of Goblin Green died a long time ago but Warboss Green is really similar. ^^

 

Celtic_Cauldron

[Syrakul]

Celtic_cauldron you inspired me to post more of mine, some I've refitted for 9th

[Celtic_cauldron]

@Syrakul: your kitbashing is great! I should definitively buy some of those FW conversion kits for my own guys.

 

Celtic_Cauldron

[Closet Skeleton]

Sons of Horus Warbands still exist in the Eye of Terror according to the 6th ed Black Legion supplement. Though even Death Guard who are one of the more organised and Primarch led Legions have their Apothecaries steal Geneseed from loyalists to reinforce their ranks while even loyalist second founding chapters like the Soul Drinkers can't always prove their origins through testing Geneseed. Ten thousand years is a long time.

I have a few HH models in my Black Legion army.

Mutilators/Terminator Possessed

kitbashed terminators

CSM

Hellforged Contemptors

Havoks

Edited October 8, 2020 by Closet Skeleton

[Xenith]

Sons of Horus Warbands still exist in the Eye of Terror according to the 6th ed Black Legion supplement. Though even Death Guard who are one of the more organised and Primarch led Legions have their Apothecaries steal Geneseed from loyalists to reinforce their ranks while even loyalist second founding chapters like the Soul Drinkers can't always prove their origins through testing Geneseed. Ten thousand years is a long time.

I have a few HH models in my Black Legion army.

Mutilators/Terminator Possessed

Haha, YES! Now that's chaos, great work on these.

[Galron]

There are likely a few true SoH running around, especially in the upper echelons of the legion. Guys who have been with Horus and Abaddon since day 1. The Black Legion suffered major casualties between 30k and 40k as they shifted between gods and previous gods weren't happy to lose their pawns and the other legions preyed on them because they were both weak and because they blamed them for the loss of the Heresy. Abaddon managed to unite the various warbands of the Black Legion back into a cohesive unit again and it became the most united legion outside the Iron Warriors and then began a massive process of rebuilding and have brought the BL back from the ashes into one of the biggest if not the biggest legions that we see today.