One more Ultra Game.

[Prot]

So since forcing myself to shelve my marine armies, I’ve decided to pull out my Ultras for a rare, planned match against Tau. 
 

a few things I tried for fun that I’m uncertain about included...

- outriders. Fast and furious, but outpaces the main army. 
- Calgar.  Can’t believe I’m saying this but I continually cursed his slow speed and he can’t go in a Impulsor. 
 

- Bladeguard. Admittedly my last attempt was on foot with Calgar and I didn’t like it. 
 

so what I’m thinking is an Indomitus Lt and Indomitus Captain, and Tiggy. About 3 squads of troops. 2 impulsors and I’m nit sure what to bring in for heavy hitters. I haven’t used much tanks, but I don’t know if I really like them. I’m 30 games into 9th and seem to be leaning towards infantry heavies. 
 

any thoughts on this (good or bad) would be appreciated. So far believe it or nit my most successful ranged damage is coming from a squad of 4-5 plasma inceptors!  

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think it could work versus Tau - they have lots of problems versus fast armies that punch hard .

 

Plasmaceptors are so good for us. I’d try to keep them in reserve til turn 3... you can clear out a lot of the drones then vaporize their hard targets !

Edited September 2, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[Captain Idaho]

As always, bring 5 Vehicles or bring none at 2000pts. That's pretty much my position.

 

Impulsors will enable you to get up close quickly. I imagine it'll be a powerful tool against Tau.

[Prot]

Well I started dumbing it down.. until I had no vehicles. This turned out to be a bad idea. Speed, and reaching them is a better option in my experience, because I will be outshot at range. 

 

As mentioned this is always with a 60 shot unit coming out of deepstrike. And at least one Riptide with that relic gun (S12 (I think) with 3 +D3 damage). Whatever vehicle that thing points at is basically dead, but at least it's one a turn. 

 

The thing with the Impulsor is I've pretty much stuck on the shield dome so I have a chance of attracting a lot of shots. 

 

I am starting to wonder if drop pods are a better idea for all around lists. I know when we see new stats, the Devs will probably seem even better with Multimelta, or whatever... 

 

I'm more or less trying to feel out what others are finding working in typical lists. I kept turning down my army until I stopped playing it, but that Tau list was just a Primaris killer, but in all honesty the army is mowing down a lot of other army types as well here. 

[Prot]

So I'm a little stumped.... I've done some list crafting, but the game is tonight and I want to use some new units, but don't want to handicap myself too much and retain competitive units at the same time.

 

Here's the general tweaks I've come up with:

 

- No Calgar. This is tough for me, but I want my HQ in an Impulsor this time. (I found it to be much more beneficial with White Scars, but I think this list might be better doing the same.) I'm using the Indomitus Captain. Debating the 2 CP for Chapter Master upgrade (because of my list).

 

- Battalion Config:  The Base configuration I'm using is almost a mix of my White Scars and my Ultra's. So I may be off basis here: 4 Troops (just because I love them)...  Assault Intercessors (in vehicle), HQ's and Bladeguard (including Judiciar) in the other Impulsor. This means I have Bolt Intercessors, and Incursors on foot.....

 

- Elites: Aside from the Bladeguard, and the Judiciar I've dropped my Apothecary and my Bladeguard Ancient to get the Cataphractii back. They aren't amazing, but built in deep strike and a decent horde / drone clearing ability.

 

- Speed and Punch: I've taken a page out  of my White Scars to come up with anti-tank units that can keep up the pressure with the assault element of this list: 3 Plasma-Ceptors, and Grav Dev squad in Drop Pod, and an Outrider squad (mostly for more pressure). Finally, I have 3 Eradicators I will put into reserve for 1 CP. 

 

 

That really is the gist of the list. I guess what makes me feel uncertain about this is it looks more like my White Scars lists, than my Ultra lists. There's actually very little shooting in here, and clearly I've subconsciously enjoyed assaulting so much with my White Scars, I am trying to incorporate it with my Ultra's.... the question is:

 

Is this a bad direction I've taken? Like I said I'm starting to wonder if I am putting too much into assault? Not enough into shooting. The only unit I will say that the Ultra's use better in this list than White Scars is the Drop Pod Devs! 

 

Have I set myself up here for a fail test? Should I bother with the Chapter Master upgrade? Any really good units you can think of I should have swapped into this list idea? 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think it’s always good to experiment and see what happens - that’s how we learn.

 

To me your list looks good and I think it should be able to do well. What’s your opponent going to be playing - Tau’va ?

[Prot]

I think it’s always good to experiment and see what happens - that’s how we learn.

 

To me your list looks good and I think it should be able to do well. What’s your opponent going to be playing - Tau’va ?

 

Yes. I know I've mentioned this before, but we typically don't play with predetermined match ups, but in this case a few of the guys are having 'grudge matches' I guess you could say. :)

 

In my case, I had to put away my Marines so other people would feel better about their chances. (Long story) But since this Tau player is regularly beating up a large, and diverse set of opponents/armies, I feel like I can pull out my Ultra's against him.

 

He is the one who typically uses the drone heavy Riptide list with the relic gun (the 3+D3 damage one). And the 60 shot crisis suit unit in deep strike (strat to gain 5 auto marker lights is annoying), a few of those pesky deep strikers with melta/plasma with -1 to hit, Ghost keel + drones. and usually he's been using a transport with those Breachers which are able to use the newer strat to go  full strength shots at max distance....

 

So I feel like I will have trouble with hidden drones as usual. Being aggressive might be the best way since he has a fair amount of indirect fire at AP-2 from various suits.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I hope you can give us a batrep for this game. I do think your list can do well... especially now you can ignore drones more.

[Captain Idaho]

Not too late to the party I hope.

 

The Devastators and Inceptors will have a solid strike when they arrive. Of course, it's situational when is best to drop them, but at the same time can be quite decisive.

 

How many Troops models are in the list?

 

I consider dropping Calgar an effective option here. He just doesn't fit into the list.

 

Netting all the rerolls could be good, but if you think you could use the CPs it won't radically change the list if you don't.

 

I'm no expert against Tau in 9th but I think getting close to them quickly and forcing them to take saves is the best principle so I think the pair of Impulsors is a solid idea. You only need 1 turn out of them to get into position.

[Riddlesworth]

Super surprised not to see boltstorm aggressors in there. Strategic reserves and scions is powerful

[Prot]

Not too late to the party I hope.

 

The Devastators and Inceptors will have a solid strike when they arrive. Of course, it's situational when is best to drop them, but at the same time can be quite decisive.

 

How many Troops models are in the list?

 

I consider dropping Calgar an effective option here. He just doesn't fit into the list.

 

Netting all the rerolls could be good, but if you think you could use the CPs it won't radically change the list if you don't.

 

I'm no expert against Tau in 9th but I think getting close to them quickly and forcing them to take saves is the best principle so I think the pair of Impulsors is a solid idea. You only need 1 turn out of them to get into position.

as mentioned I did indeed drop Calgar. Frankly I didn’t miss the Aggressors I’d normally play. This just isn’t the list for them. 

 

the game as said was against Tau. It was a close game I told him to take his favourite riptide config and it was that annoying relic gun and a second relic gun on his Ghost Keel. 

 

the 60 shot crises squad came in off deep strike. 

 

with the vehicles I was able to block him in. I also had first turn.  

 

I a,ways have trouble picking secondaries against Tau as they have so many of those units that have no discernible classification. I think that will change in their codex but for now they are “suits” or whatever instead of Monstrous creatures. 

 

be that as it may, I took a huge chance on Grind them down (attrition) for 3 points a turn. I thought if I can be aggressive enough, I can kill those drones if I pace myself, and out kill him on a turn by turn basis. That got me a lot of points. 

 

ironically I had set myself to be so aggressive I was losing the primary for the first half of the game!

 

a big thing in my first turn was I killed all but one drone of the 2 drone squads around the 2 man heavy rail gun squads ( I can’t remember their names, they have a 2 + save and a nasty set of weapons.). I took my pod of Grav devs and literally killed the squad with no wounds to spare! That was huge as he still had two other drones absorbing wounds. 

 

I never did kill the Riptide as usual, and I maybe got 2 of the 5 man crises suit squad, but by then I had used my bikes, and Bladeguard to box him out, take mid table, and let the rest of the army do it’s thing. It was about a 20 point win for the Ultramarines. A very challenging but fun game. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Well done.

[Prot]

Thanks,

 

I think he was scratching his head at the end because his deployment was a little too aggressive. We had lots of terrain, but eventually you can only 'castle' up so many units. My first turn movement of the two infitrating Incursor units took care of most the drones around the broadside suits, and the Grav Devs caused him a lot of panic. (thanks to Transhuman Physiology).

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah lots of Drones would be a great opportunity to take that Secondary. Nice pick. What other Secondaries were in the game, including the opponent's?

 

How did you find the Bladeguard performed? Love me an assault unit.

 

Didn't think you'd miss Calgar. Did you go for Chapter Master?

[Prot]

Yeah lots of Drones would be a great opportunity to take that Secondary. Nice pick. What other Secondaries were in the game, including the opponent's?

 

How did you find the Bladeguard performed? Love me an assault unit.

 

Didn't think you'd miss Calgar. Did you go for Chapter Master?

 

Thanks. That's the firs time I've taken that secondary, but Tau really are the hardest to take some secondaries on. Since we can only take one from each category, and I find the 'Action' secondaries useless for aggressive armies, it gets really hard to pick a good one for Tau because their categories (keywords) are messed up.  (they need fixing).

 

So yea, it worked taking that one, and it would be something I'd take everytime vs a multi drone army (let's face it, the meat of a Tau army is exceptionally difficult to even damage until drones are cleared out). Good Tau players keep multiple drone units within multiple elite units. 

 

Bladeguard are fun as heck. They look so cool. Being realistic I knew in this game, once I disembarked, and essentially committed my HQ's/Bladeguard, they would be acting as bodyguards, and that's what they did. I only got into CC once with the Bladeguard, and they easily took out a single tau troop unit.

 

However it's interesting to note I had one moment where I think aggression -could- have lost me the game. This is something a lot of experience against Tau is the only way to truly gage this. I'll try to explain it:

 

- End of my turn, Bladeguard take down troop choice. Now they are standing just on the outside of a ruin. Then about 3" inside a ruin are 4 Tau drones, then 6" behind that are 3 Remaining Crisis Suits. (this is a sucker move by Tau players).

 

- His turn comes, and he can only remove 1.5 of the Bladeguard.  So I have now exposed my characters. 

 

- My turn comes around, and he expects me to charge the incredibly harmful Crisis suits. He's also blocking with said drones. BUT I know he wants me to charge, as I do a visual check and see he has 3 units (including a Riptide) within 6" of: Drones, Riptide, Crisis Suits, and Transport. 

 

- I know that if I charge the drones, he essentially gets a 'free' shooting phase with 3 units. So instead I use pistols/grenades, and take out 2 drones. He removes the drones OUT of coherence which is what I hoped for....he did this because he wants to retain the 6" super Overwatch with the riptide as well as the Crisis suits.

 

- So with that trick set up, I instead assault the Transport! Now I reminded him he is out of coherency with drones, so one (of his choice) auto dies, and with Moral he loses another! Now his transport got to overwatch, but it did nothing, and he can't shoot at me cleanly without retracting the Transport, which also means he's leaving an objective marker which we currently contest.

 

He was not happy... I think he went from thinking he was going to mop up Bladeguard, Tiggy, LT, and Judiciar in a turn, to getting only one character because he had too many targets to hit in his turn. A smart play goes for the Bladeguard to get the Objective back. An overzealous play goes for characters... he couldn't win at that point. It took a lot of awareness to pull this off and knowing how Tau mechanics work. 

 

I think that was the clincher. 

 

As far as Calgar, I hate to say it but I did not miss him at all. Which kind of stinks, but he's just too slow for my current list.

 

As far as Chapter Master, funny you ask because I was on the fence and decided to take it for the sake of experiment. I surprised myself by REALLY using it heavily especially in T1 with Dev squad coming down and getting hit with a -1 to hit from a Tau ability (Strat?) as well as the regular need to hit super hard in that turn. I would take it again.

 

The reality is that usually once I have Calgar deep in a fight, the game is usually over. This way I save a lot of points, get faster, better support from the aura, and I still farm CP. I hate to see it but I think Calgar in Gravis in 9th is a real deal killer for me.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Well played - sneaky Bladeguard FTW !

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah great move. Really clever.

 

I totally agree with Calgar. When in Terminator armour he could at least teleport but marching up the table so slowly with a character at his best in melee just kills it for me too.

 

Would you consider using Jump Pack infantry like Vanguard to engage quicker? With Storm Shields and 2 wounds (in October of course) they're very powerful. It's the speed that does it for me.

[Prot]

Yes, I used to use Vanguard a lot. But the army with those guys got sold to Miniwargaming.com so I don't have any, but I think outside of knowing the costs, that could be a brutal unit! Just a very fast, tip of the spearhead, but with the impact of a hammer. Shields on multiwound models of this type are no joke (I play Custodes and see how effective it can be.)

 

I'm trying not to test anything right now that has the new rules. I'm just worried something will look really good on paper, then the points just make it impossible to work.

 

The only thing I've decided I MUST use with consideration of the new rules/or not... is Devastators. So I started work on a new unit.

 

Cataphractii have been a little underwhelming. I haven't had them make close combat in one game yet. And if they go up in points (with a 3rd wound) I probably will pull them out.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Why have had trouble getting your terminators into melee?

[Captain Idaho]

I've found Cataphractii are so slow that their deployment is key - either the right teleport location or a transport.

 

Points will be a factor but I like to use them to hold the centre of the board and net me vps whilst trading bolter shots and melee if someone tries to break through.

 

I admit I can't guarantee their effectiveness against Tau, but those Xenos scum skew the unit and many others. They're like Eldar that are even more scared of fighting man to man.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I pretty much always deep strike mine. If I took a landraider it’d has to be a Crusader so I could stuff some tasty terminator characters in there to share that sweet ride and I have a bunch of them from Series 2.0 .

[Prot]

Why have had trouble getting your terminators into melee?

 

I just really haven't made a single 9" assault attempt with them. The games are pretty high damage, by the time they get in, they are just holding a spot, or in the worst case scenario: dying to high damage Tau shots.

 

+++++++++++++++++++++

 

I just had another game vs Necrons last night.... the Cataphractii failed yet again to make the charge, but later in the game (T3?) they were charged by sword and board Lychguard (4+ invuln).

 

Wow was that an eye opener. I interrupted to get the first attacks in on the Lychguard, and killed one. The Lychguard in return killed two of mine. I ended up charging a squad of Hammer toting Intercessors the following turn to bail out the Cataphractii.... They hammer failed to hit (rolled 3 x 3's!) and I lost 4 dudes in return!

 

By the end of 4, I had lost 4 Cataphractii and 5 Intercessors to that 6 man Lychguard squad. I think I finally got him down to 2 models. 

 

I think the Cataphractii will be replaced for me by Heavy Intercessors. They are a rock against shooting, by my config has 3 Chainfists which barely hit... the 2 sets of Claws actually are much more successful but we're talking about hitting infantry here.

[Captain Idaho]

I think with 3 wounds it will change things big times.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

My CataprachtII terminators have always done well for me. I typically deep strike them.