Chaos Rhino Equipment

[MasterDeath]

Can you put two Combi-Bolters and a Havoc Launcher on a Chaos Rhino? 86 p. for a Rhino with the Firepower of a 5 man squad of CSM sounds allright.

[Marshal Loss]

Yep. A Chaos Rhino starts with a combi-bolter by default and can take a havoc launcher &/or one item from the combi-weapons list.

[Khornestar]

Yeah it’s a pretty sweet deal. Love me some Rhinos.

[Special Officer Doofy]

Do you want to though? They seem to be bullet sponges. I just advance first turn and pop smoke. They don't usually last long for me haha.

[Snazzy]

For 8 points, maybe.  I suspect we are going to concentrate more on killing 2W MEQs, so any cheap AI weaponry is welcome.  14 shots at a 10+ blob, on something you are taking for the transport and blocking capacity already.

[Ezekyle_Abaddon]

Do you want to though? They seem to be bullet sponges. I just advance first turn and pop smoke. They don't usually last long for me haha.

 

I'm pretty sure you can't advance and pop smoke. The wording on the states INSTEAD of firing this model can pop smoke. If you advance you aren't eligible to fire. Also 2 combi-bolters is nice since you can shoot into to combat and deal with annoying infantry.

[Maschinenpriester]

 

 

Do you want to though? They seem to be bullet sponges. I just advance first turn and pop smoke. They don't usually last long for me haha.

I'm pretty sure you can't advance and pop smoke. The wording on the states INSTEAD of firing this model can pop smoke. If you advance you aren't eligible to fire. Also 2 combi-bolters is nice since you can shoot into to combat and deal with annoying infantry.

You could fire a combi flamer or melta though if you had one right?

[Snazzy]

 

 

Do you want to though? They seem to be bullet sponges. I just advance first turn and pop smoke. They don't usually last long for me haha.

I'm pretty sure you can't advance and pop smoke. The wording on the states INSTEAD of firing this model can pop smoke. If you advance you aren't eligible to fire. Also 2 combi-bolters is nice since you can shoot into to combat and deal with annoying infantry.

You could fire a combi flamer or melta though if you had one right?

 

 

Correct.  Or, in place of firing the Melta or Flamer, use smoke launchers.

[Paturabo]

 

I'm pretty sure you can't advance and pop smoke. The wording on the states INSTEAD of firing this model can pop smoke. If you advance you aren't eligible to fire. Also 2 combi-bolters is nice since you can shoot into to combat and deal with annoying infantry.

The Rare Rules section of the Rule Book actually states that non-shooting abilities like smoke launchers can be used if a unit is no eligible to shoot because they advanced, fell back, or are in engagement range of an enemy model.

[McElMcNinja]

I've also seen players move a rhino up to a unit that was engaged in combat and that unit embarked, removing them from combat. If that's possible then rhinos have that as a tool to keep units safe.

[MegaVolt87]

I've also seen players move a rhino up to a unit that was engaged in combat and that unit embarked, removing them from combat. If that's possible then rhinos have that as a tool to keep units safe.

If this is actually a thing I expect it to get a FAQ stopping it sooner or later, I wouldn't get used to it.

[Brom MKIV]

Hard to squeeze sometimes but having extra guns keeps the rhino relevant after its empty. 

 

That last one you can't do however. No embarking within engagement range. 

[Relic]

Yeah they stopped those embarking tricks. Transports that could fly were an issue as they could pull troops out of combat that were otherwise pinned as embarking did not count as a "movement".

 

Anyways I tend to pay the extra five points for the havoc launcher as that is what is on my Rhino's. Now it is a very nice deal for what you get.

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

Do you want to though? They seem to be bullet sponges. I just advance first turn and pop smoke. They don't usually last long for me haha.

I'm pretty sure you can't advance and pop smoke. The wording on the states INSTEAD of firing this model can pop smoke. If you advance you aren't eligible to fire. Also 2 combi-bolters is nice since you can shoot into to combat and deal with annoying infantry.

It's from the Core Rule book FAQ:

 

Q: Can abilities that are used ‘instead of shooting’, such as Smoke Launchers, be used if the model using them has Fallen Back, Advanced or has enemy models within 1" of it?

 

A: Yes. A model can use such an ability so long as it does not shoot – it does not matter whether this is because the model cannot shoot or it chooses not to.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Putrid Choir

[Snazzy]

Good find, Putrid Choir.

 

Anyways I tend to pay the extra five points for the havoc launcher as that is what is on my Rhino's. Now it is a very nice deal for what you get.

 

I'm on the fence.  I place the value of a Combi-Weapon over it, because we live in Space Marines, The Game.  Taking a HL and CW is just too expensive for me.  Huge fan of both, though.  Havoc Launchers are one of those things that set CSM apart from Loyalists. 

 

Good find, Putrid Choir.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I think the best way to approach the rhino is keep it bare bones, build the list, and if you got some extra points, you can take the weapons. A havoc launcher and extra combi bolter is only 8pts, which is not bad if you have some extra.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think the best way to approach the rhino is keep it bare bones, build the list, and if you got some extra points, you can take the weapons. A havoc launcher and extra combi bolter is only 8pts, which is not bad if you have some extra.

When it comes to minor upgrades, this is generally how I approach things.  However, as a D1 weapon with no AP, I would point out that Havoc Launchers are probably going to be effective in a Marine-heavy meta only in large numbers.  The list I'm going to try come the drop of our codex (pending points changes, of course) has three of them -- two on Rhinos, one on a Land Raider -- and I'm curious to see how they will perform.

[Special Officer Doofy]

If you're opponent has enough 10+ model units, it helps with the launchers firepower. You're right Iron Father, it will definetly be a quantity over quality approach. But for only two points more than a combi bolter, they are not a bad option. I'm thinking of pulling the trigger and getting a land Raider for myself finally. Perhaps another rhino as well. I don't have enough games in yet for 9th to know everything, but in alot of bat reps I read and see online, people use rhino's to pretty good success now.

[Relic]

I don't think I'd take the extra combi bolter and havoc launcher either as one of the nice things about the rhino is that it is a metal box that does what it says on the tin. That said I'm pretty sure both weapons are points efficient for what you get.

 

In the games of 9th I have played, the 48 range of the launcher is cool for plinking off units sitting on opponents home objective and the like. The blast rules vs non marine armies makes it a fairly consistent heavy bolter esque weapon trading AP for extra range and potential number of shots.

 

If I had to choose one it would be the havoc launcher but I would not lose sleep over using either one over the other, not taking any extra weapons or using both if you have the points spare.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Relic

[Brom MKIV]

Consider that the havoc only out performs a combi bolter against T4 or less when its rolling 4+ shots, or 5+ vs T3. Range is a consideration and hordes too (if they exist in your meta). But otherwise I tend towards no upgrades, second combi, havoc in that order. 

[Closet Skeleton]

My Death Guard tournament list had 3 rhinos with 2 combi-bolters and a havoc on each (had to drop a havok for points sometimes thanks to Chapter approved).

 

The extra shots came in handy quite often but it wasn't a succesful tournament list (2/5 typical win ratio).

 

If you think about it then such a rhino is very similar to 4 bolter marines and a heavy bolter except with T7 and 10 wounds. Massed rhinos are actually pretty good units.

 

There are games where the opponent has too much anti-tank for the rhino to be anything but a short lived liability and sometimes you're going to be ramming enemy units with them all game but I look at it as paying for flexibility rather than worry about over-all efficiency.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Closet Skeleton

[Snazzy]

Consider that the havoc only out performs a combi bolter against T4 or less when its rolling 4+ shots, or 5+ vs T3. Range is a consideration and hordes too (if they exist in your meta). But otherwise I tend towards no upgrades, second combi, havoc in that order. 

 

Havoc Launchers have a 44.3% chance per shot of inflicting a wound on a T4 model, vs a 33.3% chance on a Combi-Bolter shot.  The Havoc has the advantage until it rolls a 1 or 2, a problem mitigated by being a Blast D6.  In addition, S5 allows the Havoc to wound any model on a 5+.  This is with a 2 point difference.  The better argument is that a Havoc Launcher can't be used in engagement range.

 

I second the consideration of both upgrades.  With our per model price going up i think we will be hard pressed to get anti-horde firepower.  8 Combi-Bolter and D6 Havoc shots for 14 points is just fine by me.

[Brom MKIV]

The havoc doesn't have an advantage at 3 shots where it only equals the combi. It's advantage actually starts at 4 shots so 50% of the time it's a more expensive combi bolter. I hadn't considered blast which makes it more attractive to me now at least.

 

That said these upgrades are the hardest pts to squeeze for me so I rarely include them.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Brom MKIV

[Verbal Underbelly]

I'd be interest to see some rhinos modelled with two combi bolters and a havoc launcher. I'm currently building a rhino with two combi bolter but can't decide where to put the havoc launcher. They don't have fire points any more so am toying with the idea of a mini turret, similar to a razorback.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

On the back is how the Dark Works: https://thedarkworks.bigcartel.com/category/weapon-system-kits (a store owned by B+C user Subtle Discord) shows the custom havoc launchers it sells, and they seem to fit quite nicely there.  That said, his are quite a bit bigger than the GW ones, I think.  BTW, this store also has a cute little mini turret with a combibolter if you don't want to make it a cupola mounted weapon, though it goes in the same place - plus it comes with one magnetized option if you want to make it a combi-flamer, melta or plasma.

 

I've seen them mounted on the armour above the tracks on one side or another and that fine as well.  That's probably where I will put mine when I put them together (I plan to magnetize them).

Edited September 25, 2020 by Dr_Ruminahui