GK 2000, upcoming tournament

[Skywrath]

Making a new thread, because this isn't a standard paladin archetype. List as follows.

 

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [107 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] +++

 

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP
. Categories: Configuration

+ HQ +

Librarian: 6: Lore Master, Armoured Resilience, Crux Terminatus, Empyrean Domination, Frag & Krak grenades, Psyk-out Grenade, Storm Bolter, Warlord, Warp Shaping
. Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knights, HQ, Psyker, Terminator, Character, Infantry, Librarian, Faction: Imperium, Warlord
. Nemesis Warding Stave: Nemesis Warding Stave

Techmarine: Aetheric Conduit, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades, Power axe, Psyk-out Grenade
. Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knights, HQ, Psyker, Character, Infantry, Faction: Imperium
. Servo Arms: Flamer, Plasma cutter, 2x Servo-arm

+ Troops +

Strike Squad: Frag & Krak grenades, Psyk-out Grenade, Vortex of Doom
. Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knights, Infantry, Psyker, Troops, Strike Squad, Faction: Imperium, Faction: Adeptus Astartes
. Grey Knight (Psycannon): Psycannon
. 3x Grey Knight (Sword): 3x Nemesis Force Sword, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

Strike Squad: Frag & Krak grenades, Psyk-out Grenade, Vortex of Doom
. Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knights, Infantry, Psyker, Troops, Strike Squad, Faction: Imperium, Faction: Adeptus Astartes
. Grey Knight (Psycannon): Psycannon
. 3x Grey Knight (Sword): 3x Nemesis Force Sword, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

+ Elites +

Venerable Dreadnought: Astral Aim, Missile launcher, Twin lascannon
. Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Dreadnought, Elites, Grey Knights, Vehicle, Psyker, Venerable Dreadnought, Faction: Imperium

+ Fast Attack +

Interceptor Squad: Frag & Krak grenades, Psyk-out Grenade, Vortex of Doom
. Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Fast Attack, Grey Knights, Infantry, Psyker, Interceptor Squad, Faction: Imperium
. 8x Interceptor (Sword): 8x Nemesis Force Sword, 8x Storm Bolter
. Interceptor Justicar: Frag & Krak grenades, Psyk-out Grenade, Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

++ Battalion Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
. Categories: Configuration

Detachment CP
. Categories: Configuration

+ HQ +

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight: Dreadfist, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword, Sanctuary
. Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Vehicle, Grey Knights, Nemesis Dreadknight, HQ, Grand Master, Character, Psyker, Faction: Imperium

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight: Dreadfist, Dreadknight teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword, Sanctuary
. Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Vehicle, Grey Knights, Nemesis Dreadknight, HQ, Grand Master, Character, Psyker, Faction: Imperium

+ Troops +

Terminator Squad: Frag & Krak grenades, Gate of Infinity, Psyk-out Grenade
. Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knights, Psyker, Terminator, Troops, Infantry, Terminator Squad, Faction: Imperium
. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer
. 2x Terminator (Halberd): 2x Nemesis Force Halberd, 2x Storm Bolter
. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. Terminator (Warding Stave): Nemesis Warding Stave, Storm Bolter

Terminator Squad: Frag & Krak grenades, Gate of Infinity, Psyk-out Grenade
. Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knights, Psyker, Terminator, Troops, Infantry, Terminator Squad, Faction: Imperium
. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer
. 2x Terminator (Halberd): 2x Nemesis Force Halberd, 2x Storm Bolter
. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. Terminator (Warding Stave): Nemesis Warding Stave, Storm Bolter

Terminator Squad: Frag & Krak grenades, Gate of Infinity, Psyk-out Grenade
. Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knights, Psyker, Terminator, Troops, Infantry, Terminator Squad, Faction: Imperium
. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer
. 2x Terminator (Halberd): 2x Nemesis Force Halberd, 2x Storm Bolter
. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. Terminator (Warding Stave): Nemesis Warding Stave, Storm Bolter

+ Elites +

Apothecary: Armoured Resilience, Frag & Krak grenades, Psyk-out Grenade
. Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Grey Knights, Infantry, Psyker, Elites, Terminator, Faction: Imperium
. Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd

 

Note: I can drop the techmarine, to fit this all in a battalion and not pay 3CP up-front. The aetheric conduit relic is also a maybe, but probably not worth it, as the techmarine doesn't have an invuln save and he will probably die to a stiff breeze. I'm still a bit lost with powers though. I know my Interceptors will have VoD, Ven Dread, Astral Aim, 2 terminators will have GOI, but other than that, I need a bit of help with choosing things. With regards to the weird configurations of psycannons on strikes, etc, that's how mine are built, so can't play around with weaponry there.

 

- GMNDK is there to address any big threats. I'm wondering if it's better to have both of them in deep-strike, though. 

- Terminators/Strikes there to hold any points.

- Interceptors contest points, with terminators reinforcing them via GOI.

- Librarian is a Versatile caster, which stays on the back of the board for support with the PA units.

- Techmarine heals the VenDread+GMNDK combo

- Apothecary heals to the wounded units or can do the Inner Fire combo.

 

General idea - 

 

- Strikes hold back points. 2 squads of terminators hold another point. 

- Interceptors shunt towards a far objective marker, and terminators GOI to reinforce them. Interceptors burn a CP on vortex of doom, for range and to clear out opposition. 

-GMNDK's are behind obscuring terrain with the Ven Dreadnought. I am toying with the idea of putting them both in deep-strike though so they don't get -shot off the board, T1, and they can sanctuary the terminators and reinforce the points further. Depending on what's the bigger threat, astral aim gets rotated.

-Techmarine plays catch-up to the GMNDK and heals them. 

-Apothecary does the same with any wounded squads (prefferably ones with GOI) and heals them to full, then the terminators GOI the apothecary to   another unit. If used offensively, he deep strikes and inner-fires someone.

-VenDread astral aim itself, and picks of any vehicles, rerolling CP if necessary.

 

Secondaries - 

 

While we Stand we fight - questionable, but with a 3+ invuln, the GMNDK *should* survive a turn of shooting. Happy to revise this though.

Linebreaker - easy to get, because the interceptors with terminators.

Raise Banners - same point with strikes at back.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Skywrath

[Corvus Fortis]

Note: I can drop the techmarine, to fit this all in a battalion and not pay 3CP up-front. The aetheric conduit relic is also a maybe, but probably not worth it, as the techmarine doesn't have an invuln save and he will probably die to a stiff breeze. I'm still a bit lost with powers though. I know my Interceptors will have VoD, Ven Dread, Astral Aim, 2 terminators will have GOI, but other than that, I need a bit of help with choosing things. With regards to the weird configurations of psycannons on strikes, etc, that's how mine are built, so can't play around with weaponry there.

 

 

 

 

Tech-marine is nice and fun unit, but I don't see him in any tournament lists. You have to keep him close to GMNDKs, so you have to either footslog with GMNDK or gate TM to them or spend CP for teleportarium. The problem is, he need relic to heal enough wounds to be worth it. And that's another CP. And you are already paying 3 CP to fit him. Finally, GMNDK may be easily wiped out in single turn. I'd drop techmarine, drop strikes, put everything in a single battalion and take more interceptors, if you have any.

 

On the psychic powers - general rule of a thumb for me - if you don't know what to take, take Gate. You never know for sure where and when you might need it. The more of it you have, the better. As I mentioned in another thread - having IF apothecary, even if you are not going to dynamic insert them, still may be worth it. But since only librarian has AR, maybe you should leave him as he is.

 

Taking both GMNDKs to reserves has one major problem - only single one will have 3++, or you have to drop them in different turns. I think, Draigo/Voldus+single GMNDK is superior, IMO. I'd take draigo and double ED an WS on him, because you may accedently lose librarian early (never happened to me, but it is still a possibility). If you insist on double GMNDK, maybe you could start on table with one of them and give him Edict Imperator. You can use Heed the Prognosticars on him this way. I'd also give one terminator unit Hammerhand. 

 

 

 

While we Stand we fight - questionable, but with a 3+ invuln, the GMNDK *should* survive a turn of shooting. Happy to revise this though.

 

 

 

 

Big No-No here for me, because GMNDKs would be priority target at every game. If you survive with them, you are probably stomping your opponent anyway. On the other hand, Dread will often survive and that's free 5 VPs.

 

Linebreaker - easy to get, because the interceptors with terminators.

 

 

I found it harder than it seems, unless your opponent is going vehicle-heavy. Most fighting is going in the middle of the board usually. Maybe, going for engage on all fronts will be better? Even if you are not going to yearn full 15 VP, it is pretty easy to do with GK for 2 VP per turn, which is already 10 VP almost for free. 

 

Raise Banners - same point with strikes at back.

 

 

I did dislike this one initially, but, in fact, it only requires a single unit to make action once and multiple units, IIRC, can do it in the same phase. I know, you are firmly against servitors, but they are great at doing such stuff. Strikes can do it either, because they will be just sitting and holding backfield objectives anyway.

 

Generally, I found that trying to for easy but cheap secondaries is always better, unless you are 100% sure you will dominate your opponent.

[Skywrath]

 

Note: I can drop the techmarine, to fit this all in a battalion and not pay 3CP up-front. The aetheric conduit relic is also a maybe, but probably not worth it, as the techmarine doesn't have an invuln save and he will probably die to a stiff breeze. I'm still a bit lost with powers though. I know my Interceptors will have VoD, Ven Dread, Astral Aim, 2 terminators will have GOI, but other than that, I need a bit of help with choosing things. With regards to the weird configurations of psycannons on strikes, etc, that's how mine are built, so can't play around with weaponry there.

 

 

 

 

Tech-marine is nice and fun unit, but I don't see him in any tournament lists. You have to keep him close to GMNDKs, so you have to either footslog with GMNDK or gate TM to them or spend CP for teleportarium. The problem is, he need relic to heal enough wounds to be worth it. And that's another CP. And you are already paying 3 CP to fit him. Finally, GMNDK may be easily wiped out in single turn. I'd drop techmarine, drop strikes, put everything in a single battalion and take more interceptors, if you have any.

 

That's the plan. Alternatively I could drop sanctic shard for that relic, however paying 3CP upfront is a yikes for me. Of course, that I don't have paladins in my list, I will be less CP starved so there is that to consider. With the GMNDK, my inspiration for this list was that one by Ben (in that other thread we mentioned). I only have the two GMNDK's, however if I see another one before the tournament, I might be able to do a third one, however that is unlikely. With the survivability, I am well aware that they are weak without sanctuary, but a 3+ invuln should technically save it, especially if I go with the plan of dropping them in the teleportarium. Their plan is to reinforce the weakest objective marker - so let's say a strike squad died guarding the back point, I just drop him in there, and psilencer them with psybolt ammunition to the next game. This is also part of the reason they aren't the warlord choices as well. As for your suggestions, interceptors are a key part of my lists to hold that point early on with the terminators, as well as strikes. The concept of this list was to see whether a MSU build could work, where I forego the paladins offense and just put these. I do have a game tommorow against a totally lovely player (sarcasm there), so I'll let you know how well that works out. If it doesn't I'll do what you suggest and provide a revision.

 

On the psychic powers - general rule of a thumb for me - if you don't know what to take, take Gate. You never know for sure where and when you might need it. The more of it you have, the better. As I mentioned in another thread - having IF apothecary, even if you are not going to dynamic insert them, still may be worth it. But since only librarian has AR, maybe you should leave him as he is.

 

At first I was a staunch believer of the idea that an inner fire apothecary is a good fit. However my last few games have proven otherwise - even if he snipes a 300-400 point unit (like Mortarion the last game I had), he's left dead in the water. Then I can't do anything with him. So in this game I am using him in a defensive capacity. What about the idea of having two of them?

 

Taking both GMNDKs to reserves has one major problem - only single one will have 3++, or you have to drop them in different turns. I think, Draigo/Voldus+single GMNDK is superior, IMO. I'd take draigo and double ED an WS on him, because you may accedently lose librarian early (never happened to me, but it is still a possibility). If you insist on double GMNDK, maybe you could start on table with one of them and give him Edict Imperator. You can use Heed the Prognosticars on him this way. I'd also give one terminator unit Hammerhand. 

 

If I take your suggestion with Draigo/Voldus then I have far too many characters in my list, bringing me up to about 7. That's pretty much an easy guarantee that a person will be taking assassinate. I prefer to avoid that, in light of such matters. I'll do the ED trick, that you suggested, never done it, but for sure, I'll give it a try tommorow. I'll let you know how it goes. Will give a terminator unit Hammerhand for sure, cheers.

 

While we Stand we fight - questionable, but with a 3+ invuln, the GMNDK *should* survive a turn of shooting. Happy to revise this though.

 

 

 

 

Big No-No here for me, because GMNDKs would be priority target at every game. If you survive with them, you are probably stomping your opponent anyway. On the other hand, Dread will often survive and that's free 5 VPs.

 

Yeah, agree with you there. In my double paladin bomb list I played the list pretty aggressively (non GMNDK list). So I was running Assassinate, Grind them Down, Linebreaker, while putting the paladin squad of 10 in deep-strike. Funny thing about that is, I was lagging behind T1, but by the end of T3, I was ahead. The reason I say this, do you see much offensive gameplay potential with GMNDK for me to take any of those three secondaries? If not, then what would you suggest I take?

 

Linebreaker - easy to get, because the interceptors with terminators.

 

 

I found it harder than it seems, unless your opponent is going vehicle-heavy. Most fighting is going in the middle of the board usually. Maybe, going for engage on all fronts will be better? Even if you are not going to yearn full 15 VP, it is pretty easy to do with GK for 2 VP per turn, which is already 10 VP almost for free. 

 

Actually, I'm very much the opposite. I found it pretty easy to get that consistently, but that could be because of how I play my paladins bomb list - aggressively. Theoretically, T1 I should get that, because I just shunt my interceptors, vortex the closest thing, reinforce with terminators, drop my GMNDK next turn, go to shoot tide. But yeah, engage on all fronts could be worth trying out for sure, I'll give that a test run tomorrow, on top of the other things you suggested.

 

Raise Banners - same point with strikes at back.

 

 

I did dislike this one initially, but, in fact, it only requires a single unit to make action once and multiple units, IIRC, can do it in the same phase. I know, you are firmly against servitors, but they are great at doing such stuff. Strikes can do it either, because they will be just sitting and holding backfield objectives anyway.

 

Generally, I found that trying to for easy but cheap secondaries is always better, unless you are 100% sure you will dominate your opponent.

 

That was the plan with strikes. I can see the use of servitors, is more that there is about 2w left till the tournament, and I don't think I can find those in time, nor can my current list afford it. Not to mention if I take servitors, that's an easy grind them down moment.

 

 

In blue.

[Corvus Fortis]

What about the idea of having two of them?

 

 

 

Wanted to try it myself, because I have both. Looks good on paper, but I struggle to find points.

 

If I take your suggestion with Draigo/Voldus then I have far too many characters in my list, bringing me up to about 7. That's pretty much an easy guarantee that a person will be taking assassinate. I prefer to avoid that, in light of such matters. I'll do the ED trick, that you suggested, never done it, but for sure, I'll give it a try tommorow. I'll let you know how it goes. Will give a terminator unit Hammerhand for sure, cheers.

 

 

I mean, drop one GMNDK and take Draigo instea, not take Draigo in addition. The thing is Draigo is way easier to protect and he is as good in close combat, maybe even better. He gives full rerolls, casts two and denies two. 

 

 I was lagging behind T1, but by the end of T3, I was ahead. The reason I say this, do you see much offensive gameplay potential with GMNDK for me to take any of those three secondaries? If not, then what would you suggest I take?

 

That's usually is how game is going for me. You have to dominate the last 3 turns to win, however, but it worked for me so far. If you had luck with linebreaker, I'd suggest you to go for engage on all fronts, linebreaker and raise the banners. I am not 100% sure on RtB, but it is worth a try. 

[Skywrath]

So update - tested this list against a Drukhari player yesterday, running the objectives previously mentioned, effectively got tabled Turn 1. Yes, you heard me right, turn 1. So he shot through both my terminator squads, my interceptors, put a dent in both strike squads. By the start of turn 2, I conceded, because he was running so much -AP modifiers in his army, that the GMNDK would have been shot dead by his turn 2. Not to mention he was ahead 12 points because of abhor the witch (I really really hate you GW now), the apothecary couldn't heal anything barring those two units, Techmarine was pointless, and my only saving grace was Voldus and a Venerable Dreadnought. I think I'm putting this list in the bin now.

 

So I was left with both GMNDKs, another one in deep-strike, Venerable Dreadnought, Voldus, Techmarine, half a terminator squad, and two strikes. Even with all that, I don't think I could have caught up, the drukhari shooting phase is brutal. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Skywrath

[Silver-Fox]

You basicly said everything in my thread.

 

I'm sad, that I can't help you with your list, because I have no clue atm, too.

 

In the games vs. Drukari with Iicubi, Drazar and Taloi; my warding staves where worth their weight in gold. They kept me dominating the Combats, even when I got charged. And vs. drukari we are getting charged.

 

Most builds are MSU, so a clever interrupt can safe some lifes. And the paladin fight in death is good for the same reason, too.

 

When you stay in the tide of shadows, you can mitigate some of the shooting from them. Taloi only hit on 4+ and when he uses single lances they will hit 50% and with a sanctuary squad they have another 50% to negate the dmg. -1 to wound is absolute importand in the matchup with poison and Str4 Incubi/str 8 Taloi.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Silver-Fox

[Skywrath]

Yeah, this hurts more, because I was so certain I came up with another archetype for the GK, but this list fell flat on his face. Perhaps in 8th, this could have worked, but 9th is completely different. 

 

Still yet to try the 3 GMNDK build, and the rhino + MSU build. 

 

With the drukhari, I didn't even get to the combat phase, he essentially shot me off the board T1. The opponent was running a lot of vehicles, which I manage to put a dent in, but other than that, mostly everything died. Looks like I will be taking the double paladin bomb list to the tournament. 

[Reskin]

I hate to revive old posts but I was just reading this and was surprised at you being tabled turn 1. I can sympathize and I know that feeling from previous editions.

 

Some amazing points that were touched on.

 

 

 

Taking both GMNDKs to reserves has one major problem - only single one will have 3++, or you have to drop them in different turns. I think, Draigo/Voldus+single GMNDK is superior, IMO. I'd take draigo and double ED an WS on him, because you may accedently lose librarian early (never happened to me, but it is still a possibility).

 

A good point raised. My librarian is always rocking the sanctic shard and 2 powers from the Dominus Discipline. You can't afford to not have warp shaping go off. Failing to cast sanc, or armoured resilience I can potentially live with. As it only affects one unit. I cant afford to not change the tide as it affects my whole army.

 

 

 

Tech-marine is nice and fun unit, but I don't see him in any tournament lists. You have to keep him close to GMNDKs, so you have to either footslog with GMNDK or gate TM to them or spend CP for teleportarium. The problem is, he need relic to heal enough wounds to be worth it. And that's another CP. And you are already paying 3 CP to fit him. Finally, GMNDK may be easily wiped out in single turn. I'd drop techmarine, drop strikes, put everything in a single battalion and take more interceptors, if you have any.

 

You couldn't just fit a 3rd HQ choice into the battalion? Why did you need to originally take two detachments? The tech priest is such a CP sink for minimal very gimicky gains.

 

 

I did dislike this one initially, but, in fact, it only requires a single unit to make action once and multiple units, IIRC, can do it in the same phase. I know, you are firmly against servitors, but they are great at doing such stuff. Strikes can do it either, because they will be just sitting and holding backfield objectives anyway.

 

Generally, I found that trying to for easy but cheap secondaries is always better, unless you are 100% sure you will dominate your opponent.

 

Actions suck for Grey Knights, I concede the point about servitors being able to do it. But they aren't even worth taking. GW has screwed an army like the GK and Custodes as well for some of the secondary objectives. 

But I refuse to sulk about it, instead I try to control what I can.

 

Grey Knights cant sit back and be passive, we'll get charged and fall limp like a wet noodle. So in saying that, my army naturally forces me into a play style. I have to delete the enemy before he deletes me. Taking secondary's like Grind them Down and such actually help protect my army. It forces me to target prioritise, and really focus fire units down. Alpha strike really is crucial to Grey Knights winning a close game and being tabled turn 1.

 

 

So update - tested this list against a Drukhari player yesterday, running the objectives previously mentioned, effectively got tabled Turn 1. Yes, you heard me right, turn 1. So he shot through both my terminator squads, my interceptors, put a dent in both strike squads. By the start of turn 2, I conceded, because he was running so much -AP modifiers in his army, that the GMNDK would have been shot dead by his turn 2. Not to mention he was ahead 12 points because of abhor the witch (I really really hate you GW now), the apothecary couldn't heal anything barring those two units, Techmarine was pointless, and my only saving grace was Voldus and a Venerable Dreadnought. I think I'm putting this list in the bin now.

 

 

I know you like to preach to me about termies being more resilient... Now whose laughing How's it feel taking off 40pt models turn one?

 

That being said, what I've quickly learnt from 9th edition so far, and just with Grey Knights in general is, SPEND YOUR CP.

 

In a 1000pt game I've spent all my 8CP by the end of turn 2. No army has that many units in 1000pt list so protecting what little you have is key. Or quickly gaining the upper hand by deleting something turn 1 is super helpful.

 

How much more so in a 2000pt game with the ability for you or your opponent to take even harder hitting threats like knights and things. You big GMNDKS with big red targets painted on their foreheads just scream table me. As you rightly found out from you match against Drukhari.

 

In short, spend your CP early and often. No point getting tabled turn 1 or 2 or even 3 and you're left hold 6 CP or more...

 

 

 

Still yet to try the 3 GMNDK build, and the rhino + MSU build. 

 

Let me know how rhinos work for you, if its positive, I may dust mine off.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Reskin

[Skywrath]

This topic was dead a month ago, and developments have been made since then. I have litterally zero idea why you bothered writing all that, just to say, I told you so. 

 

Mods, lock the topic please.