Rules clarification

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Been trying to get back into 40k more and learn the new edition.

That said a couple things I'm trying to figure out with deathwatch which I'll help me decide on what needs to be painted next in my list.

 

First, if I deepstrike a character like an ancient in terminator armour ( if we now have access to all marine units) with the Angelis beacon can he at the very end of the phase use that beacon to pull a unit to his side?

 

Second, I'm trying for the love of the emperor to fit a leviathan in my list but I need another heavy choice to unlock the option to take him if the 9th edition rules are the same (was personally hoping the Chaplin would allow it) but I can not find a single rule in the new rule book which confirms this.

I'm trying to relearn allot since over been much less active since 7th so if anyone could please advise me I would be appreciative. :)

[Qui-Gon]

1) yes, until such time as they fix the wording in future publications.

2) FW Astartes Relic rules suck. If you need another heavy choice...then take another Heavy choice. There is no second way around this.

[Mobius0288]

The common choices I've seen others bring along to include a Leviathan Dread, at least from a DW list, are Hellblasters, Mortis Contemptors and now Eradicators. You could also include a Rapier Battery which is a non-relic forgeworld choice but I have seen mixed views on it being useful. Folks primarily take it because it is the cheapest heavy support choice and fills the "relic" tax.

 

I personally have been using Mortis Contemptors for most of 8th.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

The common choices I've seen others bring along to include a Leviathan Dread, at least from a DW list, are Hellblasters, Mortis Contemptors and now Eradicators. You could also include a Rapier Battery which is a non-relic forgeworld choice but I have seen mixed views on it being useful. Folks primarily take it because it is the cheapest heavy support choice and fills the "relic" tax.

 

I personally have been using Mortis Contemptors for most of 8th.

I do really rate Mortis but I was looking for something in the more up close and tear your face off variety to teleport in with my terminators.

 

So some good news and some bad but that's life just wary of limiting my on the table units to do so with deepstrike in mind I don't want to only funnel fire at a single target if I can help it.

[XeonDragon]

As others have pointed out, you have to take a heavy to access it. One cheap option would be a unit of Eliminators. They only cost 90 points, can be set up outside your deployment zone and get bonuses to their cover saves = hard to shift. So for 90 points, you can unlock your leviathan and have some nice anti-character sniper action occurring from an objective in turn 1 :D 

[Spinsanity]

The Relic rule can be found written in full in the FW Adeptus Astartes Index FAQ :

 

Page 4 – Additional Rules, Relic

Change the first paragraph to read:

‘If your army is Battle-forged, no Detachment can contain more Relic units than it does non-Relic units of the same Battlefield Role. You can, however, include a single Relic Lord of War unit in your army even if it contains no non-Relic Lord of War units

(you cannot include second and subsequent Relic Lord of War units unless they are taken in a Detachment that contains at least as many non-Relic Lord of War units)

+Edit: The Leviathan dreadnought is a Relic unit - Relic Leviathan Dreadnough is the full entry name Edited September 7, 2020 by Spinsanity

[Debauchery101]

I gave up the Leviathan. It just is not efficient with DW enough to justify the cost. Granted most of my recent experience is vs other marines, gsc and various death guard lists. But the meta currently is MSU aka target saturation. Which de values the Leviathan quite a bit.

 

One of the great values of a leviathan with DW was the deepstrike and shred without needing to care about doctrines or use Stratagems for wound bonus. Now we have way more CP and our veterans are becoming stronger.

 

We've now kind of come full circle back to volley bolter fire style gameplay. Add in units like the outriders, outrider chaplain, invader ATVs, cheap land speeder Tempest and Eradicators you can take advantage of the MSU flexibility and have the same or better offensive capability.

 

For a big nasty dread I prefer the Relic Contemptor with 2x las and Cyclone. Ive been using him and 2 or 3 combat squads of intercessors with stalkers as a really effective board control element from turn 1. Being clever with terrain rules i try to combine fire with those units to focus mostly on knocking out stuff that can punch at him from distance while shifting him to avoid line of site

 

I'm still hesitant on committing to any supreme methods. I want to see the codex and supplement. Weve received access to indomitus lieutenants basically boosting us beyond our mission tactics.

Were getting faction based hit rerolls on 1s and 2s...so making the watch master less valuable.

I predict that we are NOT going to get full access to basic codex marine unit options without quite a bit of rework to our current rules. The limited options balanced DW due to our wound rerolls, force org slot strats and faction based stratagems

 

But right now we are sitting pretty good. Definitely top 5 armies IMO. Deathguard and Salamanders play similar and have been the toughest matches. They get lots of rerolls and have defensive tricks.

[Qui-Gon]

As others have pointed out, you have to take a heavy to access it. One cheap option would be a unit of Eliminators. They only cost 90 points, can be set up outside your deployment zone and get bonuses to their cover saves = hard to shift. So for 90 points, you can unlock your leviathan and have some nice anti-character sniper action occurring from an objective in turn 1

 

If only this wasn't an illegal choice for a Deathwatch detachment. Any other space marine chapter? Sure. Not for Deathwatch.

 

 

I gave up the Leviathan. It just is not efficient with DW enough to justify the cost. Granted most of my recent experience is vs other marines, gsc and various death guard lists. But the meta currently is MSU aka target saturation. Which de values the Leviathan quite a bit.

 

One of the great values of a leviathan with DW was the deepstrike and shred without needing to care about doctrines or use Stratagems for wound bonus. Now we have way more CP and our veterans are becoming stronger.

 

We've now kind of come full circle back to volley bolter fire style gameplay. Add in units like the outriders, outrider chaplain, invader ATVs, cheap land speeder Tempest and Eradicators you can take advantage of the MSU flexibility and have the same or better offensive capability.

 

For a big nasty dread I prefer the Relic Contemptor with 2x las and Cyclone. Ive been using him and 2 or 3 combat squads of intercessors with stalkers as a really effective board control element from turn 1. Being clever with terrain rules i try to combine fire with those units to focus mostly on knocking out stuff that can punch at him from distance while shifting him to avoid line of site

 

I'm still hesitant on committing to any supreme methods. I want to see the codex and supplement. Weve received access to indomitus lieutenants basically boosting us beyond our mission tactics.

Were getting faction based hit rerolls on 1s and 2s...so making the watch master less valuable.

I predict that we are NOT going to get full access to basic codex marine unit options without quite a bit of rework to our current rules. The limited options balanced DW due to our wound rerolls, force org slot strats and faction based stratagems

 

But right now we are sitting pretty good. Definitely top 5 armies IMO. Deathguard and Salamanders play similar and have been the toughest matches. They get lots of rerolls and have defensive tricks.

 

 

Can you explain how we are getting re-roll hit rolls of 1 and 2? Because if you actually read it yourself, no you only get re-roll hit rolls of 1 vs xenos in Melee, not 1s and 2s.

I imagine this is due to a gross misunderstanding of the formatting that the original person who "deciphered" the squiggles from that chapter tactic preview page wrote it.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Qui-Gon

[Debauchery101]

Ok so yes youre right on the 1s and 2s. I did forget to specify the fight phase for the rerolls.

 

So the guy I read that from, which has edited the post 2 times since I last visited now shows it has the parentheses after the 2. Which still throws me off because in math and grammar youd count those as being together

"Reroll a hit roll of 1 and 2)"

Edited September 7, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Debauchery101]

Well now... that actually went from kind of ok to crap

[Qui-Gon]

Putting it frankly, I'll still take a very narrative flavorful rule over nothing. But I do agree, whoever formatted it and everyone who shared it did a :cuss job in fully communicating it.

[Spinsanity]

One thing the Leviathan has going for it in 9th, I think, is that both the Grav Flux Bombard and the Storm Cannon array (unless they change) are damage 2 weapons, which can be super relevant now in a marine dominated meta...