Repulsor Executioner

[bludainjel]

Anyone else running one or more of these with their Blood Angels? Ive been Finding the time to acctually play now, played 2 games of 9th (2k) so far v Death Guard and Orks won both games, i run one and this has been an outstanding performer in both matches slaying tanks and infantry squads alike. The points cost is huge yes but i feel its definitely worth the investment. I back mine up with a dakka baal and a squad of hellblasters, i used to field mainly assault units as per the fluff but find the shooting to be really good this edition. Thoughts?

[XeonDragon]

I've had a few games now against a friend who runs one. In one game a twin-las Razor back with HK missile got it to 1 wound in the first round (yeah, very lucky). In another game two twin las razorbacks took it out in two rounds, with a bit of help from a whirlwind. In another it rampaged silly crazy through my troops, and wrecked my whirlwind and nearly iced my teeth-of-terra armed captain. 

 

So, after those games he got a bit bummed out about the ‘ineffectiveness’ of Repulsor Executioner (RE). So, I ran some mathammer numbers on a fully kitted out RE, Redemptor Dreadnought, Venerable Dreadnought etc.  to provide him some comparisons, and to show him that they are actually pretty good.

 

When I do mathhammer, I do it on the assumptions that (1) the unit will fire all its weapons at a single target (2) no doctrines or stratagems or modifiers apply and (3) if the weapon gets a plus or minus to hit (e.g. fly units), assume the worst (e.g. -1 for targeting unit that cannot hit). For melee, I assume the unit is at full strength, and +1 attack (shock assault).

 

I then run the weapon output against GEQ, MEQ, TEQ, VEQ and KEQ profiles. I do that to reflect the variety of targets available. I then put the figures into a spreadsheet and convert into points cost per point of actual damage inflicted (rather than hits or wounds per point), e.g. 16.7 points per point of damage inflicted against that ‘basket’ of targets. So that gives a general idea of the points efficiency of a unit against a variety of targets that might present themselves in a battle. That same spreadsheet also shows the average damage output, not adjusted for points (so the general effectiveness of the unit against a variety of targets that might present themselves in a battle). 

 

So, here are the results:

• A fully kitted out RE is 38.66 points per point of damage inflicted. However, it also averages 11.52 points of damage in a turn.
• A fully kitted out Redemptor Dreadnought (heavy gatling, rocket pod, onslaught gatling cannon, storm bolter) costs 50.8 points per point of shooting damage. It averages 4.9 points of shooting damage per turn.
• A fully kitted out Redemptor Dreadnought (heavy gatling, storm bolter) that shoots, then engages in melee against the same target costs 16.8 points per point of damage and averages 12.1 points of damage in a turn.
• A fully kitted out Venerable Dreadnought (twin las, storm bolter) that shoots costs 38.4 points per point of shooting damage and averages 4.1 points of shooting damage per turn. The twin-las + missile launcher shooting platform variant would cost 32.5 points per point of damage inflicted and do an average of 4.9 points of damage per turn.
• A fully kitted out Venerable Dreadnought (twin las, storm) that shoots, then engages in melee against the same target costs 16.1 points per point of damage and averages 9.8 points of damage per turn.

So from that, it appears to me that:

1. A venerable dreadnought that shoots and charges is the most efficient (BS/WS 2+ helps) of the options above
2. A redemptor dreadnought that shoots and charges is the most effective (12.1 points of damage in a turn) of the options above
3. A fully kitted out RE is the second most effective (11.5 point of shooting damage per turn), but is a more efficient shooting platform than a redemptor dreadnought and close to a venerable dreadnought that predominantly shoots in terms of efficiency. 

 

Of course the above doesn’t take durability into account, nor the effect of a degrading profile, e.g. the venerable dreadnought keeps its BS/WS 2+ until it drops, the redemptor and RE do not. By way of comparison to some options I have and have used against my friend: 

• A predator tank with 4 las cannons and a storm bolter costs 16.7 points per point of shooting damage inflicted, and does an average of 6.3 points of damage shooting per turn.
• A predator tank with 2 las cannons, 2 heavy bolters and a storm bolter costs 19.2 points per point of shooting damage inflicted, and does an average of 4.6 points of damage shooting per turn.
• A predator tank with a predator autocannon, 2 las cannons and a storm bolter costs 17.3 points per point of shooting damage inflicted, and does an average of 6.1 points of damage shooting per turn.
• A razorback with twin las cannons and a storm bolster costs 38.8 points per point of shooting damage, and does an average of 3.4 points of damage shooting per turn 

So I think in terms of effectiveness, a redemptor dreadnought that shoots AND charges a target is probably slightly better than a RE. If efficiency is a more important metric for the way you play, then a venerable or redemptor dreadnought and a quad-las + storm bolter predator are better than an RE against the ‘basket’ of target types I base my mathhammer results on.

 

However, in terms of a pure shooting platform, a RE is very good. It is more effective than a predator.

 

That said, a fully kitted out RE is what, 376 points? For that you get 16 toughness 8 wounds? So, for:

• 346 points you could get 2 quad-las predators with storm bolters = 22 toughness 7 wounds
• 359 points you could get 1 quad-las predator with storm bolter and 1 fully-kitted out venerable dreadnought  = 19 toughness 8 wounds, 8 of which do not degrade
• 419 points you could get a quad-las predator with storm bolter and two twin-las razorbacks with HK missiles.

So, sure the RE has a large variety of guns that make it very versatile and great staying power and it would be single slot in a detachment, but the above gives food for thought in my mind

 

But TL;DR: RE's are very, very effective, but there are some more efficient options to consider... but they are still awesome!

Edited September 6, 2020 by XeonDragon

[Paikis]

I'll be interested to see how good the new primaris tanks are going to be. I really like the looks of Predators but its a little bit of a bummer that the Guard have better tanks than the "elite" space marines.

[momerathe]

I've been wondering about this tank in a mech list. Mainly because of Bladeguard - they need a transport. And while the Impulsor exists, why not something with a gun on it? With the plasma gun and using it to push up the board rather than hanging back it could be interesting? Particularly if the plasma canon goes to 2/3 damage like the leaked Redemptor datasheet.  

[Karhedron]

The problem with pushing the RE up the board is that it can only fire twice if it moves at or below half speed. This is a big consideration given how many points are tied up in its main gun. Secondly, it risks bringing it into range of opponent's short ranged anti-tank guns (expect a lot of melta in 9th). It also risks it being charged. This is a bigger deal in 9th since units with FLY cannot withdraw and shoot normally anymore.

 

IMHO the best use for a RE's transport capacity is a cheap unit of Intercessors to guard Backfield Objectives or form a second wave to support your advance. The RE keeps them same from enemy fire on T1, then they hop out and get into position. Castling looks like it will be less of a thing in 9th but you can also keep buffing characters inside on T1 to protect them from snipers.

[Jolemai]

Is this thread of any use to you?

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361539-unit-of-the-week-repulsor-executioner/

 

:)

[bludainjel]

XeonDragon, thanks for the info, bit of mathhammer is always good.

Karhedron, i crawl mine forward and just keep my intercessors hellblasters and dreadnought close by for protection

Paikis, im looking forward to seeing these aswell

Momerathe, hell yeah just stick your bladeguard in one of these.

Jolemai, ill take a look thanks

 

The problem i find is trying to keep my blood angels from being a red marine army especially with all these primaris units that just do the job.

[momerathe]

Honestly I just want an excuse to use it just because I like the model

[Karhedron]

Honestly I just want an excuse to use it just because I like the model

I can't think of a better reason that that.

[Karhedron]

Musing further, I wonder how the increase in LOS blocking terrain will affect the viability of Repulsors and Land Raiders. If the Repulsor needs to move more often to get LOS, I can see the MPC becoming more useful. Especially since the tables are smaller and it looks like it may be going to D2/3 (if the Redemptor leak is anything to go by).

 

This has got me thinking. And you know how dangerous that can be.

[momerathe]

Also lets you bring the secondary armament into play.