Siegler's BA

[Morticon]

So, Richard Siegler shared his BA list for the upcoming championship he's taking part in. 

 

 

It's deliciously tactical. 

 

 

Blood Angels Patrol:

 

Astorath the Grim, Recitation of Focus, Canticle of Hate 110

Librarian Dreadnought, Heavy Flamer, -1 cp Warlord trait: Artisan of War, relic: Biomantic Sarcophagus 155

 

5 Scouts, Combat Knives, Bolt Pistols, Chainsword on Sgt. 70

 

3 Bladeguard Veterans 105

3 Bladeguard Veterans 105

 

3 Outriders 135

3 Outriders 135

 

Land Speeder Storm 55

Land Speeder Storm 55

 

Blood Angels Patrol:

 

Captain, Jump Pack, Relic Blade, Storm Shield, Warlord: Speed of the Primarch, relic: Angel’s Wings 125

The Sanguinor 140

 

5 Scouts, Combat Knives, Bolt Pistols, Chainsword on Sgt. 70

Judiciar 85

 

Sanguinary Ancient, Death Mask, Encarmine Axe, relic: Standard of Sacrifice 85

 

6 Inceptors, Plasma Exterminators 300

3 Outriders 135

 

Impulsor, 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Shield Dome 135

 

 

It plays in a way that I've not yet mastered with BA - ie: being strongest where your characters are overlapping their auras.  

 

Sanguinor, Asty and Ancient  (heck, even the captain) all contributing to aura buffs bring even the humblest of units up to ugly fighty levels. 

 

I've not been able to have the discipline to keep the units in formation long enough to make full use of all the buffs - as, too often, i wind up needing to spread out. ...so I'm actually really looking forward to seeing how this is played. 

 

If he goes Wings/Rage on the Libby Dread (which is my prediction), it means that even the most humble of units become deadly in the amount of attacks they throw out.  (5-man scout squad for example puts out 32 attacks when buffed by Rage and Sanguinor in T3). 

 

The big plasma inceptor squad is a good call too, currently comboing well with Astorath's litany before they make use of WoF and hit on 2's with no chance to overheat unless there are modifiers.

 

Overall, super exciting to think about- and great that a top level player is putting us in a big spotlight again. 

 

[Uberlord Gendo]

The Judiciar seems like an odd choice because of how slow he is. Unless the plan is to outflank? I think he'd be better off taking something with a Jump pack or deep-strike capable with the Icon of the Angel. I may be missing something amazing about the Tempomortis that makes this worth it, but a Terminator Ancient seems really good for this to me, although somewhat redundant with the captain right there.

[Majkhel]

A bold list!
Interesting to see Scouts

[The Unseen]

I would say I'd rather have 3 cp than a judicar maybe?

One battalion rather than 2 patrols

Im assuming the 2 squads of bladeguard go into the impuslor which let's them stay in front of all the jump characters, so no room for the judicar.

 

I also don't really understand the land speeders, as the scouts don't need transports normally?

I'm sure he's doing something with them but idk what.

[Morticon]

 

 

I also don't really understand the land speeders, as the scouts don't need transports normally?

I'm sure he's doing something with them but idk what.

 

Scouts can be used to push forward and camp on objectives out of sight, or create buffer zones between you and the enemy. In that case, they definitely dont need transports.

 

However, here  (and in 9th) theyre in a protected vehicle meaning the enemy has to pop their transport first, before he can target the scouts.  This allows for a few things. 

 

Firstly, it means that you can use the scouts and speeders to get into different quarters (making Engage on All Fronts an obvious go to). 

 

Secondly, you can cap an objective with the speeder, and then wait for the eemy to either blast you off if theres no LOS, or sent other units to try take it from you.  Then, with ObjSec units, you can claim it back. 

 

Additionally, if you last until turn 3, those puny 70 point scouts are putting out 22 attacks unbuffed- +5 for being near Sanguinor and another +5 if they are the target of Rage. All at AP1.  It's a bargain for their cost. 

 

Finally, if the speeder survives, initial shooting - it can suck up overwatch allowing the squishy scouts to head in and thin things out. 

 

 

 

The Judiciar seems like an odd choice because of how slow he is. Unless the plan is to outflank? 

 

Im a little confused about this one too.  However, by itself its no slouch in combat - so, I reckon that his choice to double load the Bladeguard on the Bashwagon (vs. 3 + the Judy) will depend on his opponents and how aggressive their lists are, giving himself more time to choose where to position the model.

 

 

As you guys said though -its a bold, bold list.  Aside from the 6 Inceptors, there's really nothing that is crazy wild. Rather, this list takes synergy to the next level.  Yes, those Outrider put out crazy attacks, but you need to combo them.  12x S4 AP1/2 shots is really not that impressive but they do add up when stacked.  I just wonder if it will be enough. 

 

My bet is that he's going to wish he had a hammer on the Captain .  I could be wrong, but there the games where i've preferred a relic blade over a hammer  on a BA smashy are countable on one hand. 

 

That being said, with the move from Mephy to Libby Dread and Hammer to Relic Blade he does free up a bunch of points to make his list more rounded. 

 

 

Excited to see more. 

[Xenith]

 

 

The big plasma inceptor squad is a good call too, currently comboing well with Astorath's litany before they make use of WoF and hit on 2's with no chance to overheat unless there are modifiers.

 

I thought plasma overheats were on unmodified 1's now? So rerolls help, but modifiers do nothing, for or against. Either way, everything has some punch in combat, even the plasmaceptors. 

 

Torn on the judicar and sang ancient. SoS is powerful, but is it worth it with no SanGuard to give rerolls to? It's not even the Astartes banner to let guys shoot after death. The Terminator ancient, while slower, may synergise better. He can DS into a crucial T2/3 combat you need the rerolls for, then advance D6+6" a turn. Though maybe you want the SoS on the table T1. 

[Karhedron]

I thought plasma overheats were on unmodified 1's now? So rerolls help, but modifiers do nothing, for or against. Either way, everything has some punch in combat, even the plasmaceptors.

That is the way Plasma has been worded on new units but GW have not made the rules retroactive. This means that Codex units still get the old plasma rules for another 6 weeks until the new Marine codex drops. Rather like the way we have 2 different sets of rules for Storm Shields at the moment. I guess the deal with Plasma and buffs is to make the most of the good times while they last.

[Xenith]

Ah, gotcha.

[Charlo]

My guess is the Judiciar is there to prevent damage from ongoing combats or counter charges.

 

He can hang around near units and slap the "fights last" debuff on anything that gets too close. Because of the wording, I believe even charging units would be striking last (though I could be wrong).

 

Essentially it means your opponent needs to charge things away from the Judiciar or two units near him of equal power.

[smileyjim]

Yep the fights last messes up charging units.

I really like the judicar but struggled with him keeping up with my troops, I had a foot slogging army and they would charge away out of his range quite often leaving him kicking his heels in no man's land.

 

I liked my 1 squad of outriders, first game they where targeted and died turn 1, second game.... well we won't speak of that. Third game they took out a large squad of death guard and survive flail counterattack. My guess is the idea would be to have one of the buffing characters try to keep up with the bikes giving them a bit more punch.

[TrawlingCleaner]

The Judicar's aura means that charing units becoming non-charging units for the purposes of alternating, really big as the defender now attacks first. I can see how that part of the list works, just left scratching my head for most of the rest of it. I don't doubt he can make it work though

[SnorriSnorrison]

That is a very interesting list, and only underlines the importance of characters for BA - with the right auras, our units become incredibly dangerous.

 

I'm intrigued to see LSS - it's a unit that I've wanted to test out since it's inception, but never got around to because of points costs and paper armour basically. As part of an MSU army and at the current price tag, it might actually see some play, even more so since heavy bolters got good.

 

Interesting to see that the Captain has Speed instead of Artisans, which we find on the Dread - is the extra CP really worth the damage 4 halberd?

 

The main fighty units seem to be the outriders, with the Bladeguard mopping up what's left the turn after disembarkation, so you have to wonder how he intends to keep those guys alive. Their impressive statline of T5 and 4 wounds melts away under the anti-tank guns not needed to pop the Landspeeders and perhaps Impulsors in turn 1. Also, bar litanies and turn 3, most close combat attacks are only -1 AP. He's probably better at math than me and has something figured out, but AP-1 isn't the benchmark in my opinion. Perhaps if it's wave after wave of massed S4 +1 to wound Ap-1 attacks to simply drown the opponent in saves, yes...

 

Pretty cool list. If you have updates on how it fares in the tournament, I'd sure be interested to hear that! :)

[Morticon]

Wanted to harp on a little more about those Inceptors. 

 

With their new cost, I've been a fan of them - but had never considered squads of 6 - truth be told- i would probably still keep them at 5 to reduce blast. 

 

However, there are a few awesome points here. 

Firstly- a big squad of them makes them a great bodyguard for the Ancient- which also means them getting a 5+++ on 3W models is AMAZING. 

 

Add to this the aforementioned Wings of Fire with Asty +1 - and you have some awesome sauce allowing you to position where you want the guys and vs what targets. 

 

On top of all this, in this list, the ability to get 2 extra attacks from the libby and Sanguinor means that from turn 3, that 6man squad can throw out 37 S4, AP1 attacks - which give the fact they want to be near the Ancient means theyre rerolling 1s too. 

 

To add insult to injury, with 6 guys, and the Chaplain Canticle of Hate buff, theyre likely to be getting into base to base/1" - meaning their natural Hammer of Wrath ability stacks so well with the Hammer of Wrath strat - meaning 6s do 2MW and 5s do 1MW.  Not bad for a CP !! 

 

All in all, its SUCH a devastating toolbox unit!! 

[Spiegel]

at Art of War 40K you can see Siegler play his Blood Angels and also talk about his List

[Morticon]

Ooh.Awesome! Will check it out. Does he play this list? 

[Hintzy]

He's been playing variations of it for a month or two. I think all of their twitch streams get uploaded to YouTube under the same Art of War 40k name, so they should be easy to find.

[OttoVonAwesome]

Doesn't seem very tactical to me. With so many bikers and his hardest hitting unit is a single unit of plasma inceptors it's the kind of list that only thrives at those tournements where the only terrain is two shabby looking ruins. Anyone that can fall back shoot or who has a high volume of anti tank weapons will likely cripple this list fast. But Iv'e never understood these kind of lists. Seems like thier success is more dependant on who they are matched  with and garuntee of open ground and also a judiciar really? Where does he fit? Not exactly crapping my pants about psyker dread slogging in an entirely forward list either.

[Xenith]

 Not exactly   my pants about psyker dread slogging in an entirely forward list either.

 

BA dreads have access to the power Wings of Sanguinius which gives a free 12" move, and increases their movement to 12". Turn 1 a BA dread has a threat range of 21-33". With no assault turn 1, it can assault a target within 46+3D6" in turn 2 with 2 casts of Wings. 

[Morticon]

Do you mean 24" + 2d6 +3 ? 

Im not sure about the 46 +3d6 ?

[Xenith]

Do you mean 24" + 2d6 +3 ? 

 

Im not sure about the 46 +3d6 ?

 

Turn 1:

8" move; D6+1 advance; 12" move from casting wings (21+D6" covered)

 

Turn 2:

12" base move from ongoing effect of wings; 12" move from casting wings again; 2D6+1" charge range (25 + 2D6" covered)

 

Total possible displacement from start position by end of T2 = 46 +3D6".

 

Wings changes the base move of the dread to 12" until the start of the next psychic phase. 

 

Edit - I see now. My first post was the dread's range from turn one. That's the ground it can cover in 2 turns if there's nothing in assault range T1. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Xenith

[Remtek]

Played 5 games with something similar

 

Done a few small changes back and forth, but roughly:

Blood Angels Batallion
2xLibby Dread
Smashcaptain
2 x 5 Scouts
5 Incursor Squad
3x3 Bladeguard Veteran Squad
Sanguinary Ancient, FNP banner
Judicar
5 Sanguinary Guard, powerfist, angelus boltguns
6 Inceptor Squad, plasma
2 x 3 Eradicator Squad
2 x landspeeder storm

 

For me the mvp's have mostly been the bladeguard + judicar, characters, inceptors, storms and sanguinary guard. Eradicators have been very unreliable, considering dropping them. This was before the character faq, so the libby dreads could screen themselves. I had 2 games vs elves where i had issues with plasma, vs -1 to hit. Might consider adding in Astorath! Havent even thought about doing the +1 to hit litany. Still on the fence in regards to the impulsor, the bladeguard usually just  cover mid objectives and stay there. Also thought about trying BA captain on bike with the 5++ re-roll 1 fnp wl trait to make him more durable, but loosing fly seems like a pain at times!

Edited September 25, 2020 by Remtek

[Morticon]

Remtek, this looks really really strong. 

 

And youre right- this list is begging for astorath.

 

Do you just march up the bladeguard? 

 

And how did the speeders do in this list? 

[Jolemai]

How do you juggle two Librarian Dreadnoughts?

[Remtek]

The core of the list is this pretty much (things i would not take out of list)

Bladeguard as many as possible :P
Sanguinary Ancient with fnp banner
Judicar
landspeeder storms (atleast two)
Sanguinary Guard (atleast 5) (might be replaced by Vanguard vets with new book)
A fire support solution: plasma inceptors have been doing great but a bit rough versus elves with lightning fast. Tho Astorath will help with that.  With transports being popular i feel you need to be able to have a reliable way to kill one transport each turn with ranged attacks.

 

@Morticon

I march bladeguard up with ancient  and judicar either turn 1 or two depending on matchup and terrain. But genereally they stay in in the middle of a 3 objective triangle. I might keep 3 behind on home objective since i don't really have much troops and they have the heroic option if fast troops try to contest objective. Tho having an impulsor is really tempting! It has worked until now, so have just kept them on foot.

 

I have been  a big fan of storms when playing red marines in past editions, happy they are costed reasonable now and that BA have access to them. I usually start one empty (5 scouts in reserves for deploy scramblers). They sometimes take middle objectives if i get first turn so i can keep rest of the army hidden or i just them to soak overwatch or genereally be annoying. It's just a great utility piece since the rest of the army is kinda slow.

 

@Jolemai

Not very well. In my head the idea of them being able to protect themselves with veichle and character keyword seemed appealing. But in practice usually one ran off turn 2. And in 2 of the games they kept getting denied. I have been thinking of what mort said about taking wings and unleash range with the relic. If i replay my previous games that seems like a much stronger option since quickening is not adding anything to the army and is hard to cast.

[Morticon]

Rem, they Cant protect themselves with each other. That was FAQed quick quick.