Still learning rules queries

[snakebyte]

Sorry, a couple of questions from a game that popped up if you'll indulge....!

 

1) Does being in melee negate controlling an objective? I couldn't see anywhere that said it didn't, so if 10 tactical marines are engaged by 20 bloodletters in a brawl then the bloodletters claim the objective by virtue of their being more?

 

2) Unless otherwise stated you can only fight in the fight phase once, yes?

So if your big bloodthirster is locked in combat against five other units, all five can beat on him but he can only beat on one with his full attacks.

He could, though, split his attacks and divide them amongst his attackers - but he cannot retaliate against each unit with his full compliment of attacks.

 

3) Pistols can be fired in the shooting phase of your turn against the unit you are in melee combat with? Ditto weapons that say something about the 1" engagement range, like the bloodthirster lash?

 

Thanks for your help!

[Rogue]

On the second question - yes, the bloodthirster would only get five attacks in total, but you can divide them up however you want to amongst the units it's engaged with.

 

I realise it's probably a hypothetical question, but don't forget that if five units are engaged with your bloodthirster, only models that are within 1" or within ½" of a model within ½" can fight. So if multiple units come in, they may not be able to get all of their models close enough to fight.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

1)  Being within Engagement Range (your unit being within 1" of 1 or more enemy models) does not prevent a model from counting towards holding an objective.  The rules for holding objectives is on page 88 of the Mission Pack (page 237 of the Core rule book) and don't contain any exemption regarding models in units that are within Engagement Range of the enemy.

 

As per your example of 10 tactical marines and 20 bloodletters, that information itself is not enough to determine who is holding the objective.  Determining who has control of the objective is not a matter of which unit is bigger, but how many models are within 3" of the objective (or 5" vertically).  So, the marines, despite having less models overall, could have more models within range of the objective and thereby control the objective.  Additionally, if only 1 of the units has the Objective Secured rule (which would occur if the bloodletters were summoned rather than part of a detachment), that unit would hold the objective regardless of the number of models on each side that are in range.

 

 

2) As stated by Rogue, a model can (unless a rule permits otherwise, such as the ability on Khorne Berzerkers in the Codex Chaos Space Marines), only fight once in a fight phase.  So, yes, if one unit is within  Engagement Range of several enemy units, it has to split its attacks between those units (or put all of its attacks against 1 unit) and each of those units also gets to fight back once - but, as noted by Rogue, it is likely that not all of the enemy models are within range to fight back.  The relevant rules are on page 74 of the Mission Pack (page 228 of the Core rule book) - the important part is that it says a unit can only activate once, and what occurs on activation is that it makes its attacks, not its attacks against each enemy unit within Engagement Range.

 

So yes, it is an important choice on whether you want to be engaged with that many units - while they get to attack you, that may be worth the risk as it means denying those units their shooting in the next turn (provided your unit survives the fight and morale phases).

 

 

3) Yes, pistols and other shooting weapons that say they can be used while the model's unit is within Engagement Range can be used to shoot in your shooting phase.  Whether or not those shots must be against the unit(s) the model's unit is within Engagement Range of will depend on the exact wording of the weapon's rules.  For pistols (page 70 of the Mission Pack, page 218 of the Core rule book), if they are used by a model whose unit is engaged with 1 or more unit enemy units, their rules do limit them to being used on the enemy units within Engagement Range of their unit.

 

EDIT - added page numbers from Core Book.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Dr_Ruminahui