Imperial fists tactics in 9th edition

[nusphigor]

Hello brothers!

 

I was wondering how are you faring using the chapter under the new edition rules.

How does the ignore cover part work now?

What tips or tactics are you using now in your armies?

 

Cheers!

[jeremy1391]

Hello brothers!

 

I was wondering how are you faring using the chapter under the new edition rules.

How does the ignore cover part work now?

What tips or tactics are you using now in your armies?

 

Cheers!

The ignore cover part of our CT ignores the benefit to the saving saving throw of light cover. And our tactics haven’t really changed much, use lots of big guns and bolters, and since a lot of armies are using transports now to quickly get onto objectives our first turn shooting is more important than ever!

[Snazzy]

Better than ever, in some regards.  Objective play has been a big boost for me, personally.  Enemies castle up less, and short ranged fire fights break out, benefitting my banner centric build.  Because Astartes Banners allow you to hurt opponents out of sequence you can do things to remove their models off of objectives during their turn, or even in your own turn by getting killed by things like overheating plasma, or getting killed in melee.  Banners were always broken, but with how objectives work now, i'm convinced they are a core strength in this edition.

 

The new rules for Blast weapons have also made my Scouts using Clearance Protocols into massacre machines.

[nusphigor]

Thank you brothers!
I just made a Crusade army to start battling against a friend's Thousand Sons, so i am trying to learn the new rules and had those questions :P

 

If you have more neat tips (like the scouts and clearance protocols) i'd appreciate them!

 

 

Cheers

[jeremy1391]

Also another note always bring at least one thunderfire cannon! With the importance of objectives and mobility in this edition double shooting tremor shells is invaluable!

[Snazzy]

If you have more neat tips (like the scouts and clearance protocols) i'd appreciate them!

 

Don't forget Praetorian's Wrath works on grenades.

 

Close-Range Bolter Drill works with Assault Doctrine.

 

Really study the new terrain rules.  Bolster Defenses works with Heavy Cover in the Fight Phase as long as you don't charge, or use Heroic Intervention.

[War Angel]

 

If you have more neat tips (like the scouts and clearance protocols) i'd appreciate them!

 

 

Don't forget Praetorian's Wrath works on grenades.

 

Close-Range Bolter Drill works with Assault Doctrine.

 

Really study the new terrain rules.  Bolster Defenses works with Heavy Cover in the Fight Phase as long as you don't charge, or use Heroic Intervention.

Did they fix how heavy cover worked?

[Snazzy]

 

 

If you have more neat tips (like the scouts and clearance protocols) i'd appreciate them!

 

Don't forget Praetorian's Wrath works on grenades.

 

Close-Range Bolter Drill works with Assault Doctrine.

 

Really study the new terrain rules.  Bolster Defenses works with Heavy Cover in the Fight Phase as long as you don't charge, or use Heroic Intervention.

Did they fix how heavy cover worked?

 

 

They cleared it up so that the benefit does not apply to a unit that charges into cover.

 

 

Page 263 – Heavy Cover Change this paragraph to read: ‘When an attack made with a melee weapon wounds a model that is receiving the benefits of cover from this terrain feature, add 1 to the saving throw made against that attack unless the model that the attack is allocated to made a charge move this turn (invulnerable saving throws are not affected).

[War Angel]

Wow, almost read it wrong again lol, thanks

[Snazzy]

Our "i get better cover, you get none" mechanics were good in 8th, overshadowed by Legacy of Dorn.  They are really powerful in this edition as terrain has become stronger. 

[PensivePanther]

New Imperial Fist player here!

 

What secondaries have you guys been building lists for? What units do you typically bring for them?

[MegaVolt87]

Glad I waited before I did anything with my indomni box. With the change to CF's I see no value in taking melee units for them since the chapter tactic changed wording from attacks to ranged attacks for the 5 model hit bonus. Who would have thought the indomnitus box was actually the BT starter set? 

[Lemondish]

I'm looking at adding a big blob of Terminators to my IF collection for a few reasons.

 

I will never pass up lots of Bolters and power fists, but with their extra wound and extra maneuverability from the Teleport beacon, I feel like they might be a pretty decent tool. Am I crazy?

[jeremy1391]

Glad I waited before I did anything with my indomni box. With the change to CF's I see no value in taking melee units for them since the chapter tactic changed wording from attacks to ranged attacks for the 5 model hit bonus. Who would have thought the indomnitus box was actually the BT starter set?

Blade guard veterans holding an objective with the shield unwavering strat are pretty hard to shift, and have a butt load of attacks.

[MegaVolt87]

 

Glad I waited before I did anything with my indomni box. With the change to CF's I see no value in taking melee units for them since the chapter tactic changed wording from attacks to ranged attacks for the 5 model hit bonus. Who would have thought the indomnitus box was actually the BT starter set?

Blade guard veterans holding an objective with the shield unwavering strat are pretty hard to shift, and have a butt load of attacks.

 

 

Hm, then add stoic defender indomni cpt, the new apothacary and that's actually quite hard to shift from an objective or push an enemy one. 

[Mandragola]

 

 

 

Glad I waited before I did anything with my indomni box. With the change to CF's I see no value in taking melee units for them since the chapter tactic changed wording from attacks to ranged attacks for the 5 model hit bonus. Who would have thought the indomnitus box was actually the BT starter set?

Blade guard veterans holding an objective with the shield unwavering strat are pretty hard to shift, and have a butt load of attacks.

 

 

Hm, then add stoic defender indomni cpt, the new apothacary and that's actually quite hard to shift from an objective or push an enemy one. 

 

I’m trying to figure out how to play my Crimson Fists in 9th. Honestly it’s a bit tough and I think the consensus is that Fists are now probably the weakest marine faction. 

 

The Indomitus stuff is better for Crimson Fists than Imperial ones, thanks to Pedro. A +1 attack aura is great news for pretty much all of these guys. It's not going to make them as good as white scars, blood angels or wolves, but they'll still be a very efficient unit that deters people from coming at you.

 

I’m trying to figure out what units are good specifically for Fists, as opposed to generally good for everyone – so I won’t bother looking at Eradicators, even though I’ll almost certainly use them. I think we’ve got two types of good unit now: stuff with bolters and units that can still make use of our super doctrine. Plus a smaller sub-group of units that benefit from Pedro’s +1 attack aura. 

 

For bolters and Pedro’s aura I think I want a load of intercessors. I now like the auto rifle best I think. It would be pretty fun to use the close range bolter fire strat on a squad of these and send out 40 shots in a turn. I’m not sure it’s all that exciting in a meta that looks like it favours tough units though. All those S4 ap0 1D shots can achieve very little if you point them at Custodians or something. 

 

I’m trying to decide if I like Inceptors. The dakka ones are a cheap-ish unit I can deep strike anywhere. The new strat to let them fire as they do an action really helps with the utility of these guys. They open up the option of secondaries that would be extremely difficult to with a static gunline. Don’t play a static gunline in 9th. 

 

Top of the list of good units with the super doctrine are Storm Cannon Leviathans… for now. These things actually got a lot better in 9th, even post FAQ. It’s basically the perfect target for the “all doctrines” strat. You can only do this strat on one unit, so make it a really good one. It lost its penalty for moving and shooting, the flamers got a range boost and it can shoot in melee. If it keeps any of its existing rules and gains -1 to incoming damage, it’ll be a fantastic unit. Most important, I think you can argue that this guy is better in a Fist army than for anyone else, thanks to Legacy of Dorn. It therefore provides a reason to play Fists. Or at least it’ll do that until the index comes out. You can even replace a lieutenant with it if you’re prepared to use it to reroll 1s to wound. 

 

Whirlwinds are great, though not cheap. They’ve got an extremely powerful strat that makes a target unit fight last and prevents overwatch. I’m not sure Fists care all that much about those things, but if you do then this is a great way to mess up enemy units. The effect lasts until the start of your next turn, so it does mean that the enemy unit will fight last even if it charges you. This is good, especially if you’ve got something to hit the enemy with. Vengeance launchers are S7, so they work with the super doctrine, and they can hit people anywhere. Overall though they have pretty weak firepower for their cost so I think you want one to use the strat, but no more. 

 

Storm Speeder Thunderstrike (or maybe Hammerstrike). This sends out quite a lot of S7-10 shots, moves 16” and flies. So it’ll be able to make use of the super doctrine, if it lives. 

 

An Invictor costs about the same as a storm speeder and has got a whole lot better this edition… mostly. All those heavy guns lost their penalty to hit. The stubbers went to 8 shots instead of 6, but lost the super doctrine. The heavy bolter is D2, so arguably better than it was before. Most importantly I think it’s a great unit for 9th, as it’s going to score you secondaries if it lives long enough, and will force your opponent to deal with it. It’s obviously doing an extremely dangerous job though so it’ll need back up. But this thing didn’t suffer much from having the doctrine only active on turn one, as it can actually get to see its target, and it doesn’t tend to live all that long anyway. 

 

However, I’m not sure if I like the Invictor now that Redemptors are so much better. These guys are kind of good for Fists because the plasma incinerator and icarus pod are both candidates to use the super doctrine. I’m not sure but I think you could make a case for running three of these things, all with plasma. You’re getting a tough platform that’s actually fairly mobile, durable, and able to engage pretty much any target. Even without the super doctrine the plasma gun is great at taking out Gravis guys, who are clearly going to be a lot more common, and that base of 2 damage is great news. Also, these now only do D3 damage when they explode (which they sometimes will!) so it's nice they won't one-shot your characters any more. The Apothecary you're going to take anyway can repair the damage now.

 

I think Pedro is near-essential for Crimson Fists. His warlord trait is actually pretty strong in 9th and he combos very well with a midfield controll-ing infantry-heavy army - which is probably our best option. However, the units he buffs best have changed a bit. I've run him in the past with assault centurions but they don't get his extra attack any more. 

 

Instead it's looking more and more like assault terminators could be the way to go. Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields give them a 1+ armour save and a 4++. Fists can improve that armour save even more and Pedro gives them an extra attack. Their one major weakness is having only 2 attacks on their profile I think, so the attack is great news. Plus of course he makes them obsec. So again they look like a unit that might actually be better for Crimson Fists than most other chapters.

[MegaVolt87]

Its honestly putting me between a rock and a hard place. Old marines have gotten a strong second wind in this new codex, a mixed force is looking like a powerful one. However, I prefer to go 100% primaris themacticly. Old CF felt like a good middle ground between BT and IF's, not so much now.

[Mandragola]

Its honestly putting me between a rock and a hard place. Old marines have gotten a strong second wind in this new codex, a mixed force is looking like a powerful one. However, I prefer to go 100% primaris themacticly. Old CF felt like a good middle ground between BT and IF's, not so much now.

Agreed. If I do use any oldmarine stuff it'll definitely be based on Primaris bodies. I'm even thinking of boxing out the rear hull of an impulsor and sticking a rocket launcher on it, to represent a Whirlwind.

 

I've seen a pretty nice conversion where someone had stuck terminator arms on aggressors to create some deathwing termies. I think I'd do something similar myself. I've got a load of old terminators from years ago so if I can scrape the paint off their arms I think I might be in business. I'll wait for the heavy intercessors to arrive though.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

60 Heavy Intercessors with a Chapter Master, LT and Chief Apothecary will be my new Imperial Force :lol:

[MegaVolt87]

60 Heavy Intercessors with a Chapter Master, LT and Chief Apothecary will be my new Imperial Force

 

Drop down some heavy intercessors to fit x3 plasma redemptors and you might have something there. Still, seems like a bit of a meme force though. 

[Lemondish]

60 Heavy Intercessors with a Chapter Master, LT and Chief Apothecary will be my new Imperial Force

 

Thematically awesome, but mechanically boring, no? Wish they'd do another pass on Fists imho. 

[Mandragola]

Heavy intercessor spam is an interesting idea. It has some problems, like doing very little damage in melee and having an enormous footprint on the board. Shame they didn't put a power fist in the kit.

 

Heavy intercessors and dreads could make for a decent army though. You'd basically be buying it from scratch though at this point. For me, if I've got to build a whole new version of my current army, it's at least worth considering something different. Pretty much any other chapter looks like they'd have a more interesting play style right now.

[Snazzy]

I'm thinking Auto Bolter Intercessors are the way to go.  The flexibility they provide, from Advance and fire, to Close-Range Bolter Fire strikes me as playing more into the IF theme of being slightly better than the opponent at any given time, over the course of the entire game.   Maybe even be a candidate for AGL upgrade for use in the first turn?

[Mandragola]

I agree that auto rifles look like the way to go. I definitely think we want AGLs on them. Those are now assault weapons, not grenades. This means you can fire two if you have them in a unit and they can be fired in addition to the intercessor's gun. It's also blast. This arguably brings intercessors closer to the effectiveness of tactical marines with a special weapon.

[Lemondish]

Totally agreed - it also results in some intense CP tricks if you really want to get crazy...

 

IF Chapter Tactics, with the new Rapid Fire Stratagem, alongside the old Bolter Drill Stratagem, will drown anything in bolts that approximates the craziness that the old Aggressors used to achieve.

 

With terrain being such a key part of the game, and the ability to hide out of line of sight on deployment much more prevalent, have we maybe slept too much on Aircraft for maximizing Legacy of Dorn? They can move without penalty to firing now, and often have the mobility to get in line of sight of a vehicle target. Has anybody tried a Fist airforce?