Unkillable 1st Captain

[Captain Idaho]

Hyperbole aside, I've been considering a new build for Ultramarines players to enjoy. With the changes we know are confirmed, alongside things we don't think are likely to change (since they have remained constant spanning multiple editions now) I want to present the following Theoretical:

 

Captain in Terminator Armour

• Storm Shield

• Iron Resolve (Warlord Trait)

• Melee weapon of ultimate killing (to taste)

• Tarentian Cloak

 

This Captain gets 7 wounds, a functional 1+ save, a 4+ Invulnerable save, ignores wounds on a 6 and regains D3 wounds a turn. Killing him will not be easy and that goes for most circumstances in the game.

 

The downside is the waste in a 5+ invulnerable granted by the Tarentian Cloak, which is a minor quibble.

 

Unless changed in the new Codex Datasheet, this can also be done with a Cataphractii Terminator Captain, which boosts his survivability further with a 3+ invulnerable save.

 

However, at that point you're wasting both the Storm Shield and Tarentian Cloak invulnerable saves. It is fiendishly tough though.

 

Obvious weaknesses of course would be movement and transport options, as well as only sticking to a single weapon, but depending on build that isn't an issue.

 

This build is so tough I'm considering converting up a new Captain especially.

[Guiltysparc]

Are 1+ saves actually a thing?  I could have sworn reading somewhere that 1s are still going to fail.

[Spinsanity]

Are 1+ saves actually a thing? I could have sworn reading somewhere that 1s are still going to fail.

Well, it does negates -1 AP modifiers, in essence, and reduce the effective AP of all other attacks by 1... (AP -2 would reduce your save from an effective 2+ to a 3+)

[UnkyHamHam]

I feel like the Shield Eternal or Sanctic Halo would be better picks to shoot for the 3++ on a regular Terminator Captain. Technically you can accomplish the wound regen by putting him near an Apothecary too. I do like the concept!

[Stickeh]

A gravis Captain with extra wound and T5 could be just as, if not more, survivable no? I’d be tempted by the sanctic halo instead of the tarentian cloak but both are viable.

[Guiltysparc]

 

Are 1+ saves actually a thing? I could have sworn reading somewhere that 1s are still going to fail.

Well, it does negates -1 AP modifiers, in essence, and reduce the effective AP of all other attacks by 1... (AP -2 would reduce your save from an effective 2+ to a 3+)

 

I see, so practically its not really a 1+ save per se, but a regular 2+ save that reduces incoming AP modifiers by 1?

[Captain Idaho]

Alongside an Apothecary, with the Tarentian Cloak, you can regenerate 2D3 wounds a turn...

 

3+ invulnerable is very good, no doubt about it. Which is why the Cataphractii Captain works even better in this role. ;)

[Captain Idaho]

 

 

Are 1+ saves actually a thing? I could have sworn reading somewhere that 1s are still going to fail.

 

Well, it does negates -1 AP modifiers, in essence, and reduce the effective AP of all other attacks by 1... (AP -2 would reduce your save from an effective 2+ to a 3+)

I see, so practically its not really a 1+ save per se, but a regular 2+ save that reduces incoming AP modifiers by 1?

Games Workshop themselves referred to it as a 1+ armour save and I mentioned it as a functionally 1+ armour save.

 

The "always fail on a 1" thing doesn't change the stat actually. A model could be listed as a 0+ armour save and still fail on a role of a 1.

 

A gravis Captain with extra wound and T5 could be just as, if not more, survivable no? I’d be tempted by the sanctic halo instead of the tarentian cloak but both are viable.

It wouldn't be as effective because a 3+ invulnerable isn't as effective as a 1+ save with a 3+ invulnerable. Being T5 is pretty cool, but models will have weapons powerful enough to wound or enough attacks to get through and force saves.

 

I'd say even the "basic" Terminator Captain with a 4+ invulnerable would have a better overall survivability than a T5 Gravis Captain, thanks to the Storm Shield giving a 1+ save.

[Jolemai]

What's affording the 1+ save?

Edited September 15, 2020 by Jolemai

[Captain Idaho]

A Storm Shield.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

yeah the terminator captain is much more surviVable.

[Captain Idaho]

Perhaps the Indomitus Captain with the Armour Indomitus could give a good showing, having a 1+ save himself, but then he couldn't have the Tarentian Cloak which is key to overcoming the odd failed save that sneaks through.

[Prot]

Perhaps the Indomitus Captain with the Armour Indomitus could give a good showing, having a 1+ save himself, but then he couldn't have the Tarentian Cloak which is key to overcoming the odd failed save that sneaks through.

I was just going to suggest the Indomitus  Captain with Indomitus armour.  Don’t  really remember the cloak, but I usually take the seal of oath too. 

 

[Captain Idaho]

If you have a nearby Apothecary, the Indomitus Captain version can be very effective.

 

Of course, he wouldn't have a Thunder Hammer and wouldn't have access to the Tarentian Cloak, but he'd still be effective if you're not into Terminator models for your theme.

[Prot]

If you have a nearby Apothecary, the Indomitus Captain version can be very effective.

 

Of course, he wouldn't have a Thunder Hammer and wouldn't have access to the Tarentian Cloak, but he'd still be effective if you're not into Terminator models for your theme.

 

I actually have the old Cataphractii captain model from the old Calth Boxset. It was converted with a shield by one of the mods here, but he still has a chainfist. That could be a deadly deep strike with Cataphractii, immediately setting up a brutal aura, and real estate at mid table. 

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah he'll be fiendishly tough. So much I'm going to go and convert one myself.

[Prot]

Yeah he'll be fiendishly tough. So much I'm going to go and convert one myself.

 

Isn't it interesting that we are seeing all these cool interactions using new (primaris) and old (firs born) marines alike?

 

I think one of the best things to come of this edition is (I really hope) this will stop the old vs. new hate/love debates forum-wide. I think the extra wound, the tweak to shields and weapons, makes the 'clear cut' choices less obvious. I'm sure we can all agree that is a good thing!

 

Honestly I've just done so many UM armies and painting I welcomed the fresh face of Primaris for hobby time, and I enjoyed their aesthetic. The current ruleset and codex have me looking at those older models and squads I have laying around with much more temptation than I've felt in years. 

 

I don't know how many times I've looked at that Cataphractii conversion in my 'to do' box from years ago, and he might actually get painted now! :tu:

[Prot]

With the new reveal of Aura's only affecting Core (mostly infantry) and NOT HQ's.... that's a strong push towards the survival style HQ that may not get his hands dirty.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm actually impressed with how balanced the dynamic between the First Born and Primaris is. Most units have a place, at the 2 wound adjustment.

[Captain Idaho]

With the new reveal of Aura's only affecting Core (mostly infantry) and NOT HQ's.... that's a strong push towards the survival style HQ that may not get his hands dirty.

I'd say it's the opposite. Terminators are very much front line as are some others likely to be, which means characters on the front line leading them need to be tough.

 

Oops I didn't mean needs to be just tough as if you never mentioned "survival HQs". Wasn't clear I meant the use of HQs needs to be considered more likely to engage the opponent.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Captain Idaho

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I agree and intend to keep playing beatsticks- they can and do win games .